Article: Twins Sign Left-Handed Pitcher Martin Perez

[AlwaysinModeration]

People toss out this "you need 8-10 starters every year" line, and it's true in a literal sense. But that doesn't mean 8-10 guys get meaningful opportunities to start. The last few guys on that list are probably looking at 1-5 starts for the year, which is better than nothing but not really much for evaluation or development.

 

15+ starts for Perez is kind of a big deal, relatively, especially on a team that has already committed 3 rotation spots (and corresponding salaries) for expiring contract SPs in Gibson, Odorizzi, and Pineda. They really need to invest something in finding starters for 2020 and beyond, and probably something more than a flyer with an option on a guy like Perez.

I agree with you. I don’t think I would have signed him. I would rather see internal options Romero, Gonsalves, and Mejia get the first crack. I’m just trying to work through the reasoning behind the move. And thinking through it, I came up with a number of reasons.

 

I’m still not convinced. That said, I guess we are going to find out if the FO guys know more than we do.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

I would argue that they gain roster flexibility with this move in that they gain another guy to decide from for the 5th spot. Sure he has a leg up on the competition right now, but $3.5 million is such a small amount of money that the Twins would probably fine cutting bait with him around June if he isn't performing. When you say that someone with options on the 40 man is going to lose their spot, that's only for the beginning of the year. Injuries and bad performance are going to happen, possibly even in Spring Training, and the guys on the 40 man with options will end up getting their chances.

 

The Cron, Schoop, and Parker moves aren't losing the team roster flexibility either. We currently don't have minor league guys that are ready to step into those spots anyways.

In that last sentence lies the problem. We have been told for years that we needed to wait. Wait for Arcia. Hicks. Buxton. Sano. Gonsalves. Gordon. Now its wait for Lewis and Kiriloff. This Perez signing indicates to me that they have no confidence in the young pitchers that we have been told to wait for. So we continue to get more Correa, Nolasco and Perez signings.

 

I'm tired of waiting. Especially when we just witnessed one of the best relief pitcher FA markets in history. We get Perez instead of Robertson, Familia, Herrera, etc

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

People toss out this "you need 8-10 starters every year" line, and it's true in a literal sense. But that doesn't mean 8-10 guys get meaningful opportunities to start. The last few guys on that list are probably looking at 1-5 starts for the year, which is better than nothing but not really much for evaluation or development.

15+ starts for Perez is kind of a big deal, relatively, especially on a team that has already committed 3 rotation spots (and corresponding salaries) for expiring contract SPs in Gibson, Odorizzi, and Pineda. They really need to invest something in finding starters for 2020 and beyond, and probably something more than a flyer with an option on a guy like Perez.

Yes, if Perez is the 5th starter over Mejia we now are left with having to secure 80% of our rotation new for 2020. How does that bode well for success? If Perez is getting the starts over Mejia we still won't know what we have in Mejia, and if so I'm guessing they don't really think they have much in Mejia at all.

[nicksaviking]

Nick, Someone has hacked your account and posted the above about the 3.5 million dollar Perez deal. Contact your IT guy immediately.

3.5 million I don’t care about, that money isn’t changing anything.

 

All I care about is changing his repertoire. If they do, I’m on board. If they don’t I’m not on board, cut him before we break camp please.

[PseudoSABR]

Has the structure of the deal been announced? I imagine the Twins can get out it, ala Annibal Sanchez's contract last year, if things aren't working, but the longer they keep him the more they are on the hook for.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

Has the structure of the deal been announced? I imagine the Twins can get out it, ala Annibal Sanchez's contract last year, if things aren't working, but the longer they keep him the more they are on the hook for.

Hasn't been announced, but this seems doubtful. The Sanchez deal was kind of unusual -- a MLB deal requiring a 40-man spot, but with a split salary if he didn't make the 25-man.

 

I suspect the Perez deal is more straightforward. Especially if it has a second year option as reported, it doesn't seem they would bother with a provision where he could get cut in spring training.

 

I suppose some of the salary could be in the form of incentives.

Edited January 20, 2019 by spycake

[Mike Sixel]

Has the structure of the deal been announced? I imagine the Twins can get out it, ala Annibal Sanchez's contract last year, if things aren't working, but the longer they keep him the more they are on the hook for.

Does it matter? It's a tiny bit of money. The issue is the roster spot, imo.

[Twodogs]

It might have something to say about how much they are trusting Pineda right now??

[Otto von Ballpark]

It might have something to say about how much they are trusting Pineda right now??

Or Mejia, who ended 2018 on the shelf too...

 

Still, they could aim higher.

Edited January 20, 2019 by spycake

[PseudoSABR]

 

Does it matter? It's a tiny bit of money. The issue is the roster spot, imo.

You really covet Duffey and Granite do you?  If he stinks, I doubt he makes the 25 man roster.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Hasn't been announced, but this seems doubtful. The Sanchez deal was kind of unusual -- a MLB deal requiring a 40-man spot, but with a split salary if he didn't make the 25-man.

I suspect the Perez deal is more straightforward. Especially if it has a second year option as reported, it doesn't seem they would bother with a provision where he could get cut in spring training.

I suppose some of the salary could be in the form of incentives.

Didn't the Twins sign Parker to a similar deal, where if they cut bait sooner they take less of a haircut?

[wavedog]

Living down here in Texas Ranger country - I have seen Perez pitch for a few years now.   He will look good for a few innings and then pick around the plate walk a few hitters and melt down and give up a big inning.   The Rangers I am sure got frustrated not seeing any improvement.  Maybe he could fit as a multi-inning reliever or maybe a change of scenery is what he needs to change - as a Twins fan I can hope but I am not counting on much.  

[ashbury]

Didn't the Twins sign Parker to a similar deal, where if they cut bait sooner they take less of a haircut?

$1.8M vs $3.2M? Haircut? That's a little off the sides, at most. A beard trim. A couple of wild eyebrow hairs plucked, maybe.

[Mike Sixel]

You really covet Duffey and Granite do you? If he stinks, I doubt he makes the 25 man roster.

I'm worried about him being bad, but not terrible. Then ten bad starts. I don't care about the 40 man spot at all. I want upside, not, well, he can always be cut, signings. YMMV, of course.

[TheLeviathan]

If your immediate response to any signing is "Well...how easy will it be to cut him?"  That sorta ends the conversation.

 

If we're making this kind of move, I'd prefer the first question be "How can we find the upside?"  We'd be asking that if this was Sonny Gray.  Or Dallas Kuechel.  

 

Martin Perez would seem to need to transform into an entirely new pitcher to have upside.  It's happened before, but dammit....there are guys out there much more likely to be upside acquisitions.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

If your immediate response to any signing is "Well...how easy will it be to cut him?"  That sorta ends the conversation.

 

If we're making this kind of move, I'd prefer the first question be "How can we find the upside?"  We'd be asking that if this was Sonny Gray.  Or Dallas Kuechel.  

 

Martin Perez would seem to need to transform into an entirely new pitcher to have upside.  It's happened before, but dammit....there are guys out there much more likely to be upside acquisitions.

I was wanting to see a Drew Pomeranz signing speaking of possible upside. Yes Like Perez he stunk to high heaven in 2018. But unlike Perez he has actually succeeded at a high level during his career. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by sweetmusicviola16

[mlhouse]

 

If your immediate response to any signing is "Well...how easy will it be to cut him?"  That sorta ends the conversation.

 

If we're making this kind of move, I'd prefer the first question be "How can we find the upside?"  We'd be asking that if this was Sonny Gray.  Or Dallas Kuechel.  

 

Martin Perez would seem to need to transform into an entirely new pitcher to have upside.  It's happened before, but dammit....there are guys out there much more likely to be upside acquisitions.

 

I have been raising the upside point for years.   

 

In my mind you have two options.

 

OPtion A:  Bring up the young guys, acknowledge your team is going to be bad.  Let them develop and hopefully they are actually good players and we will become a truly competitive team.

 

Option B:  Keep bringing in these mediocre players on short term contract, pushing back the time for your young prospects to get experience, and have great 82 win seasons and think that is just great.

 

I guess there is an argument that you can blend the options, but the problem with that is there is only one ball.  We can't have Stephen Gonsalves starting games if Martin Perez is.  And if Gonsalves isn't starting and getting the development/experience now, he is going to have to do it later.  

 

Right now, we have so many pitchers in the same spot:  they have moved through the minor leagues relatively successfully and they need the opportunity to get experience at the next, and highest levels.   Gonsalves, Romero, Meija, Moya, Stewart, Vazques have only been given brief glances at the MLB level.  Lewis Thorpe and several others are sitting just outside that door too.   Give them a chance to show their stuff.  Keep them if they demonstrate they can compete at the level.  Move them if they can't.  

 

The point I will make, again, is that players like Perez and most of the other "free agent" signings we have made ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE.   Every off season.  So, lets go full rebuild NOW, get this over with, the "new" FO will have a couple more high draft picks, and then go add these mediocre veterans competitive teams need for depth and innings.  

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by mlhouse

[TheLeviathan]

 

I was wanting to see a Drew Pomeranz signing speaking of possible upside. Yes Like Perez he stunk to high heaven. But unlike Perez he has actually succeeded at a high level during his career. 

 

The key to an upside signing is that you are banking on them turning things around from a rough patch, so Pomeranz fits that.  Perez hasn't done anything to show there is upside to be had in a long, long time.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

I have been raising the upside point for years.   

 

In my mind you have two options.

 

OPtion A:  Bring up the young guys, acknowledge your team is going to be bad.  Let them develop and hopefully they are actually good players and we will become a truly competitive team.

 

Option B:  Keep bringing in these mediocre players on short term contract, pushing back the time for your young prospects to get experience, and have great 82 win seasons and think that is just great.

 

I guess there is an argument that you can blend the options, but the problem with that is there is only one ball.  We can't have Stephen Gonsalves starting games if Martin Perez is.  And if Gonsalves isn't starting and getting the development/experience now, he is going to have to do it later.  

 

Right now, we have so many pitchers in the same spot:  they have moved through the minor leagues relatively successfully and they need the opportunity to get experience at the next, and highest levels.   Gonsalves, Romero, Meija, Moya, Stewart, Vazques have only been given brief glances at the MLB level.  Lewis Thorpe and several others are sitting just outside that door too.   Give them a chance to show their stuff.  Keep them if they demonstrate they can compete at the level.  Move them if they can't.  

 

The point I will make, again, is that players like Perez and most of the other "free agent" signings we have made ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE.   Every off season.  So, lets go full rebuild NOW, get this over with, the "new" FO will have a couple more high draft picks, and then go add these mediocre veterans competitive teams need for depth and innings.  

Or Option C: Bring up some of the young players and bear with them in the growing pains. Sign an FA or two a season to a longer than a one season deal and trade some of the excess milb talent, for some ML depth, that isn't getting the same chance as the first group instead of sitting on these guys and seeing them be DFA'd in a short time. What's the stinking point of having this highly vaunted minor system if you don't use it?

[DocBauer]

Been reading, reflecting, mulling and stewing since this announcement and my initial post.

 

I'm about the most frustrated and angry as I have ever been as a Twins fan at this moment!

 

I actually like most of the moves made this off season, even if most aren't major needle movers. Most have been smart additions. And if the team feels it's prudent to shave at least some payroll while truly figuring out the "core" and then move forward, OK. I dont like that approach, I'd rather add a top RP and another versatile player with a solid bat to give us something, someone, other than ONLY Adrianza for the infield, but I could at least understand that tactic.

 

This is $3.5M spent on a very poor SP who's only positive claims are that he was once highly ranked 7-8yrs ago and twice has thrown more than 180IP in a ML season. As poorly as he pitched, almost any starter on the 40 man could replace him for the minimum. A RP? He has 11 mediocre IP from the pen and should be considered behind Moya and Vasquez both at this point.

 

It's not the 40 man spot, or the $3.5M that bothers me. It just seems to a WASTE of a 40 man spot and $3.5M that could have been applied to a more trusted RP or solid infielder. So now we are that much closer to our supposed budget cap, taking opportunities from guys who need and deserve opportunity, for a 28yo LH who strikes out 5K per with a 4.63 career ERA coming off his worst season ever.

 

How does this fit any sort of plan?

 

I hope I am forced to eat my words. I hope I end up looking foolish for being so worked up. But this move just leaves me confused and angry.

 

And now, with apologies, I will step down off my cranky man soap box and go hide in my cave until the first sign of Spring.

[h2oface]

I thought the front office was supposed to make deals that actually improve our team! Yes, our team. They are the strangers and newcomers. 5 years ago, they could care less about the Twins. We are the ones that have cared since we can remember. At least last year, it looked like they were trying to improve the team, even though the reality of it became all the moves did was not improve the team. This year, it doesn't even look like they are trying to improve the team. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by h2oface

[howeda7]

 

I didn't like this signing right off the bat and I like it even less now that we know the contract amount.....Yuck.

 

 

 

Edit: I wonder who the Twins release now?

Eew. I was about to mock y'all for over-reacting to a minor-league deal. 

[killertwinfan]

They must have seen my post where I asked for a couple of arms.  This guy clearly has two arms, so I guess I am supposed to be happy.  

[Doctor Wu]

I'll be one of the very few to say that I don't hate this signing. Actually, my first thought when I read the news was: "Cool, they finally signed someone!" Okay, I know; he's not the lights-out bullpen arm we were hoping for, but it's a start, one of those low-risk signings that could bear fruit. Hopefully the Falvine braintrust sees something in him that can be honed or corrected. Obviously, we don't want to see the Perez of 2018, but I'd love to have the young Perez of 2013, when he was posting good numbers before TJ surgery.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

So far, with the moves of the Falvey/Levine front office that I haven't liked or that have seemed questionable in restrospect -- e.g. trading Rodney for a light return when he had an option year and the team would need bullpen help again this offseason; jumping early on Schoop when Lowrie ended up signing a reasonable 2-year deal and Gonzalez still hasn't signed -- at least the reasoning behind the moves has seemed fairly apparent.

 

Pérez is the first move where I really don't see the logic. I can squint and kind of see some reasons (which have been covered in these comments already) but they don't convince me this move was better than no move would have been.

[yarnivek1972]

Brian Duensing made $3.5 mil each of the last two years. Despite a nightmarish 2018, he still has a sub 4 career relief ERA and a career .625 OPS vs LHB.

 

Point being that is the type of pitcher one can get for $3.5 mil. I don’t see Perez as that good.

Edited January 22, 2019 by yarnivek1972

[mlhouse]

 

Brian Duensing made $3.5 mil each of the last two years. Despite a nightmarish 2018, he still has a sub 4 career relief ERA and a career .625 OPS vs LHB.

Point being that is the type of pitcher one can get for $3.5 mil. I don’t see Perez as that good.

 

Duensing signed a 2 year, 7 million contract before last season after he has a 68 appearance, 2.74 ERA in 2017.  

[Aerodeliria]

 

A quote from his Wikipedia page:

 

"He is compared to be a cross between Johan Santana and Greg Maddux by Jason Parks of Baseball Time in Arlington."

 

Ha!

 

[Aerodeliria]

 

Ha!

I thought it came from his mother but I guess it came from someone named Jason Parks...maybe his brother-in-law...

 

[rv78]

This move ranks right up there with the Matt Belisle addition.