Privilege and Responsibility

[Brock Beauchamp]

Nope. Nice try, though. I’m actually pretty conflicted about this situation and strongly disagree with a few friends of color about the Israelites (I refuse to give them a pass on this one). My worldview is pretty constantly in flux and you know that, which is why I’m rolling my eyes at you right now. I have my biases, just like everyone else, but I challenge them on a pretty regular basis. Can you say the same about people who wear MAGA hats to a Native American demonstration?

 

I look at the situation and what stands out the most is the failure of the teachers to actually take advantage of a teaching moment. To allow a bunch of MAGA kids to stand up to a Native American man during a demonstration speaks volumes about their character.

 

Should the kids have known better? Probably. But if the teachers stood back and let that happen, we shouldn’t be the least bit surprised why those kids thought that behavior was okay.

[TheLeviathan]

 

 

When the kids started chanting and pretty openly mocking the native American(s), that's when I stopped caring about who started it and (once again) just became embarrassed for white Americans and their continued tone deafness to anything that doesn't fit into their nice little box of a worldview.

 

What mocking was there?  I have heard the tomahawk chops referenced, but if you see earlier in the video that was being done by the Native American groups while they were singing.  Now, you could say the kids shouldn't have joined in maybe, but even Phillips said he was happy they got into it and tried to sing along.  

 

Did I miss the press conference when the political left and right formally announced that video evidence is no longer a thing?

[LaBombo]

 

Nope. Nice try, though. I’m actually pretty conflicted about this situation and strongly disagree with a few friends of color about the Israelites (I refuse to give them a pass on this one). My worldview is pretty constantly in flux and you know that, which is why I’m rolling my eyes at you right now. I have my biases, just like everyone else, but I challenge them on a pretty regular basis. Can you say the same about people who wear MAGA hats to a Native American demonstration?

I look at the situation and what stands out the most is the failure of the teachers to actually take advantage of a teaching moment. To allow a bunch of MAGA kids to stand up to a Native American man during a protest speaks volumes about their character.

Should the kids have known better? Probably. But if the teachers stood back and let that happen, we shouldn’t be the least bit surprised why those kids thought that behavior was okay.

 

You're well informed and open-minded with regard to policy issues, and I salute you for it. But this isn't the same thing. Regardless of that, I'm fine with taking your word that you're conflicted by the situation, and based on that, I also have no problem withdrawing my criticism if that's the case.

 

In return, maybe you could acknowledge that my mistake might stem from the fact that virtually nothing that you wrote suggests even a hint of conflict in your mind, other than whether Catholic school kids or Catholic school chaperones were to blame.

 

Yes, there is the obligatory disclaimer that you refuse to give a pass to a sociopathic hate group whose superpower is pan-offensive verbal assault.. and yet somehow even that seemingly no-brainer sentiment simply devolved into blame for the true villains: the kids in the bad guy hats.  That disclaimer doesn't scream 'conflict' to me. It just looks you making it clear that you're not a monster.

 

After that... all of your thoughts on the matter, in both this post and the last, revolve around MAGA hats, race, and the culpability of the Covington kids and chaperones. And those thoughts look to me like your interpretation of the events is reverse-engineered from a pre-existing belief that anyone in a MAGA hat is bad, along with a fervent desire to preserve the initial, false narrative of evil MAGA-clad larvae "mobbing" a Native American Vietnam veteran despite the absolute avalanche of exculpatory evidence that has since come to light.

 

Your repeated mischaracterization of the Covington students as some sort aggressive soccer hooligans in Chelsea colors looking for trouble on Arsenal turf is emphatically not supported by the facts.  They did not wade into a Native American demonstration with MAGA hats blazing.  They were awaiting the arrival of more students when the "demonstration" came to them, as Mr Phillips allegedly sought to ease or resolve the B.I./Covington standoff by making the odd choice of confronting the targets instead of the attackers.

 

It's interesting that your biggest takeaway was a lost teaching moment of not explaining to the kids why they should flee when Phillips confronted them. Was it so that they would not become vulture media fodder and punching bags for the militant Left? Or were you referring to the larger lesson that they will always hold the low hand in any situation that can possibly be reduced or distorted into identity politics poker?

 

My takeaways, fwiw, were that 1) it was deeply disturbing to see how easily an eager, willfully uncritical media was able to frame a heavily edited sliver of a verbal altercation between multiple groups in order to falsely vilify a single party of children as perpetrators of a hate crime whose significance and malignancy rivaled a terrorist attack on US soil, and 2) how many people and media outlets have clung to the original false narrative as "fake but true" despite its having been thoroughly and utterly discredited.

 

This is twice as long and about ten times as contentious as it was intended to be; apologies on both counts.  But as a parent of a child who is now close to the age of the ones in question, it is absolutely appalling and infuriating to me that such an enormous contingent of the media and citizenry of our nation would attempt to smear a bunch of innocent students as Klan members in order to satisfy their palpable hatred of a politician and his supporters, no matter how much I may dislike him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Craig Arko]

The scissor.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/opinion/covington-catholic-march-for-life.html

[TheLeviathan]

He's a conservative writer, but damn were there some 5 star one liners.  I'm a big fan of this one:

 

Are you listening to yourself? The path is always greased when it’s our tribe.

 

 

This thread has been a monument to that at times.  These kids were receiving death threats and told they deserved a punch in the face for their blatant racism and now, when the cold, clear light of day is available to us what do we hear? "Welp, I don't think the initial reaction was all that different" and other tripe.

 

Just, ugh.  It's ok to admit you got suckered by a false narrative.  It's hard to dodge them these days and even harder when the path is always so well greased.  Truth is eroding fast on the right to be sure, but if you're on the left and can't eat your crow...you should probably look in the mirror on your own contribution to the erosion of that once precious value.

[LaBombo]

 

The scissor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/opinion/covington-catholic-march-for-life.html

 

Thanks for posting, good read. Asimov might be both proud and disturbed to see one of his most provocative ideas seemingly taking a leap toward fruition.

 

This particular scissor seems to be approaching the end of its run in the Cinema of Righteous Rage, as at least some of the lynch mob start coming to their senses:

 

WHOOPI GOLDBERG:  "But is it that we just instantly say that's what it is based on what we see in that moment and then have to walk stuff back when it turns out we're wrong? Why is that? Why do we keep making the same mistake?"

 

JOY BEHAR: "Because we're desperate to get Trump out of office. That's why."

 

When you've lost Joy Behar...

 

That's like Christopher Walken suddenly jumping out of your broom closet and yelling "That was too much cowbell!!!"

[TheLeviathan]

I think this is a fair criticism of the right (and works with this thread's title) coming out of this.  I don't know if this particular liberal has eaten his crow, but assuming he has (if he joined in the flash reaction) this is a fair counter point to the right's reaction to this.

 

There are some fruitful conversations to have coming out of this strange confluence of political issues.  As long as we keep the truth in mind and come at it with some humility.

 

So, on second thought, maybe not.

[KirbyDome89]

 

If you want to go around wearing a MAGA hat, such is your right, but the expectation to be free from judgement is both unrealistic and disingenuous.  When wearing a MAGA hat, people might think you're a racist, and especially so when you do what looks to be racist things; it's not on everyone else to root out the context to disspell what's a reasonable first impression given the cultural climate.  

Are they racists, or is it just easier to attack an identity rather than an individual?  

 

Isn't this paragraph the type of thinking that's routinely admonished on the left? Replace MAGA hat with "short skirt," and racist with "asking for it." There's some serious disconnect here.

[Badsmerf]

Are they racists, or is it just easier to attack an identity rather than an individual?

 

Isn't this paragraph the type of thinking that's routinely admonished on the left? Replace MAGA hat with "short skirt," and racist with "asking for it." There's some serious disconnect here.

I'm not letting you get away with this.

 

A MAGA hat has been a decisive symbol from the moment it was manufactured. That hat has political symbolism that cannot be disputed. It stood for Trump, which in turn, stood for racists, womanizers, xenophobics, and facists. That extreme demographic is who was supporting Trump, and continues to do so to this day.

 

Comparing women or girls whom decide to wear short skirts with MAGA hat wearers is truly a demonstrative act. One is a choice to support an unpopular agenda, the other is clothes. How dare you equate the acts of scum rapists to those with a left wing ideology.

 

You're wrong. I'm disgusted by it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

You're well informed and open-minded with regard to policy issues, and I salute you for it. But this isn't the same thing. Regardless of that, I'm fine with taking your word that you're conflicted by the situation, and based on that, I also have no problem withdrawing my criticism if that's the case.

 

In return, maybe you could acknowledge that my mistake might stem from the fact that virtually nothing that you wrote suggests even a hint of conflict in your mind, other than whether Catholic school kids or Catholic school chaperones were to blame.

 

Yes, there is the obligatory disclaimer that you refuse to give a pass to a sociopathic hate group whose superpower is pan-offensive verbal assault.. and yet somehow even that seemingly no-brainer sentiment simply devolved into blame for the true villains: the kids in the bad guy hats. That disclaimer doesn't scream 'conflict' to me. It just looks you making it clear that you're not a monster.

 

After that... all of your thoughts on the matter, in both this post and the last, revolve around MAGA hats, race, and the culpability of the Covington kids and chaperones. And those thoughts look to me like your interpretation of the events is reverse-engineered from a pre-existing belief that anyone in a MAGA hat is bad, along with a fervent desire to preserve the initial, false narrative of evil MAGA-clad larvae "mobbing" a Native American Vietnam veteran despite the absolute avalanche of exculpatory evidence that has since come to light.

 

Your repeated mischaracterization of the Covington students as some sort aggressive soccer hooligans in Chelsea colors looking for trouble on Arsenal turf is emphatically not supported by the facts. They did not wade into a Native American demonstration with MAGA hats blazing. They were awaiting the arrival of more students when the "demonstration" came to them, as Mr Phillips allegedly sought to ease or resolve the B.I./Covington standoff by making the odd choice of confronting the targets instead of the attackers.

 

It's interesting that your biggest takeaway was a lost teaching moment of not explaining to the kids why they should flee when Phillips confronted them. Was it so that they would not become vulture media fodder and punching bags for the militant Left? Or were you referring to the larger lesson that they will always hold the low hand in any situation that can possibly be reduced or distorted into identity politics poker?

 

My takeaways, fwiw, were that 1) it was deeply disturbing to see how easily an eager, willfully uncritical media was able to frame a heavily edited sliver of a verbal altercation between multiple groups in order to falsely vilify a single party of children as perpetrators of a hate crime whose significance and malignancy rivaled a terrorist attack on US soil, and 2) how many people and media outlets have clung to the original false narrative as "fake but true" despite its having been thoroughly and utterly discredited.

 

This is twice as long and about ten times as contentious as it was intended to be; apologies on both counts. But as a parent of a child who is now close to the age of the ones in question, it is absolutely appalling and infuriating to me that such an enormous contingent of the media and citizenry of our nation would attempt to smear a bunch of innocent students as Klan members in order to satisfy their palpable hatred of a politician and his supporters, no matter how much I may dislike him.

People have gone way too far with these kids. Doxxing is wrong 100% of the time. Calls to violence are wrong nearly 100% of the time. People should be ashamed of this behavior.

 

The reason I focus more on the kids (more the teachers, actually) is because I tend to give more attention to those I best understand, those who look like me and were likely raised in an environment similar to mine. And as a white man (or person), we need to do a hell of a lot better job of calling out our own and less time about worrying what the other side is doing. We’re the ones who need to change because we hold real power in this country. Worrying about fringe radicals with no power beyond screaming obscenities on street corners won’t actually change anything because ultimately, they don’t matter.

[TheLeviathan]

 

People have gone way too far with these kids. Doxxing is wrong 100% of the time. Calls to violence are wrong nearly 100% of the time. People should be ashamed of this behavior.

The reason I focus more on the kids (more the teachers, actually) is because I tend to give more attention to those I best understand, those who look like me and were likely raised in an environment similar to mine. And as a white man (or person), we need to do a hell of a lot better job of calling out our own and less time about worrying what the other side is doing. We’re the ones who need to change because we hold real power in this country. Worrying about fringe radicals with no power beyond screaming obscenities on street corners won’t actually change anything because ultimately, they don’t matter.

 

I do think it's a poor choice for a bunch of 18 year old males to be spending a day at an abortion event and wearing stupid hats, but is wearing the hats the only real offense they committed in your eyes?

 

[Craig Arko]

My actual sympathies here lie with the women who wanted to have a pro-choice rally and have been pretty much forgotten/pushed aside by everyone else's agenda.

[PseudoSABR]

I think the recent discussion boils down to this:

[Musk21]

 

https://deadspin.com/high-school-students-bring-trump-2020-flag-to-basketbal-1831844614

 

Is this just more liberal outrage? Just kids being kids? No hidden meaning behind bringing a MAGA flag to a basketball game between rural Jordan, MN and inner-city Mpls Roosevelt?

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think the recent discussion boils down to this:

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

https://deadspin.com/high-school-students-bring-trump-2020-flag-to-basketbal-1831844614

 

Is this just more liberal outrage? Just kids being kids? No hidden meaning behind bringing a MAGA flag to a basketball game between rural Jordan, MN and inner-city Mpls Roosevelt?

 

From growing up rural...I think the concern is legit.  However, I would like ot know if they did this every game or specially for this one?   That makes a big difference IMO.

 

But given the feelings towards minorities in places like Jordan (I have coached against that school and played them in high school), I'd guess that this was deliberate.  Maybe not racist, but probably deliberately antagonistic.  That's just a guess, not an accusation.  I'd like to know more info before I level up to an accusation.

 

It fits well with this thread, because even if it wasn't intentional, it does speak to the lack of awareness for some people.

[Badsmerf]

I truly believe there is a destructive symbolism with the MAGA logo. I don't think it is the Confederate flag. I don't think everyone that wears it is evil. I do think some that wear it are extreme toxic individuals that find a happy place in MAGA.

[Squirrel]

 

From growing up rural...I think the concern is legit.  However, I would like ot know if they did this every game or specially for this one?   That makes a big difference IMO.

 

But given the feelings towards minorities in places like Jordan (I have coached against that school and played them in high school), I'd guess that this was deliberate.  Maybe not racist, but probably deliberately antagonistic.  That's just a guess, not an accusation.  I'd like to know more info before I level up to an accusation.

This is an honest question because this confuses me ... and I'm not trying to pick a fight or be indignant with this question ... but if it was deliberate to antagonize a mostly black team by mostly white kids ... how is it not racist?

[MMMordabito]

 

https://deadspin.com/high-school-students-bring-trump-2020-flag-to-basketbal-1831844614

 

Is this just more liberal outrage? Just kids being kids? No hidden meaning behind bringing a MAGA flag to a basketball game between rural Jordan, MN and inner-city Mpls Roosevelt?

 

It's funny how the one team stays in the locker room for the national anthem, but then they get upset when someone has a Trump flag. The blanket excuse by the parent was pretty lame.   It's going to be a long, at-least-two more years of this back and forth nonsense.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This is an honest question because this confuses me ... and I'm not trying to pick a fight or be indignant with this question ... but if it was deliberate to antagonize a mostly black team by mostly white kids ... how is it not racist?

 

If it was deliberate - it was racist.   I guess my earlier comment muddled that reading back.  I was thinking it might have been trying to antagonize people on the city vs. rural, but in hindsight you're asking a good question.  Yeah, it would be racist.

 

I just think the question of whether it was this one time, or if they did it for every game, is needed to know if it was deliberate.

[Squirrel]

 

If it was deliberate - it was racist. 

 

I just think the question of whether it was this one time, or if they did it for every game, is needed to know if it was deliberate.

Hmm, okay ... but I guess I don't agree. I don't think there needs to be overt intent for it to be a racist act. But that has been debated on this sight with no agreement, so I'll leave it at that. We don't agree.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Hmm, okay ... but I guess I don't agree. I don't think there needs to be overt intent for it to be a racist act. But that has been debated on this sight with no agreement, so I'll leave it at that. We don't agree.

 

I guess we'd have to discuss what kinds of acts you're talking about.  

 

I think intent is important to keep in mind.  A lack of ill-intent may not be sufficient to wipe away how racist an act is, but it may eliminate the racism of the actor.

 

If that makes sense.

[Squirrel]

 

I guess we'd have to discuss what kinds of acts you're talking about.  

 

I think intent is important to keep in mind.  A lack of ill-intent may not be sufficient to wipe away how racist an act is, but it may eliminate the racism of the actor.

 

If that makes sense.

It does make sense. And I'm initially inclined to think ill-intent makes it worse. But on a deeper level, I think lack of intent makes it worse ... I'm not sure I can explain exactly what I mean or why I feel that way. We all know when it's obvious and that makes it much easier to point to and say, 'No!' And yes, those actions are truly more heinous, i.e. lynching, cross burning, racial slurs, swastikas. But that which is just ... well ... actions without ill-intent that are ... well ... for lack of a better way to say it ... culturally ingrained ... it's difficult to point to it with as much certainty and say, 'No!' without getting a lot of backlash. 'But I didn't mean anything by it' is a truly felt common response. That's where this whole idea of privilege is so difficult to discuss and define ... because it is just so difficult to point to with certainty and know it's wrong. It's much more difficult to get inside someone and try and get them to relearn and rethink what their actions might mean to someone else. And I'm not saying we should walk on eggshells ... but then, maybe we all should, for a while, until we can really see how what we might do in jest, or on a regular basis just because it's become second nature to us. To start to think and see how and why we say and do what we do; coming to realize how what one takes for granted another doesn't have the privilege. I know that sounds like overkill, and it is absolutely possible to take things too much the other direction, but there is also a lot that some of us just take for granted, because we've never had to give it a 2nd thought. While maybe these students in Jordon aren't racist in the purest definition of the word, but did they give it a 2nd thought, at all, about what that symbolizes for someone else, particularly members of the other team? If they thought to antagonize, or play some sort of psych out game, to gain an advantage at a basketball game, then why did they think that would have an affect, if on some level, it wasn't racially motivated, even if they couldn't really articulate that or think of it in that way? Again, maybe I'm taking it into the realm of becoming over-sensitive, and maybe I'm not exactly explaining it right, but sometimes actions with no intent to be so, still are. There have been many a time where I've been ignored, made suggestions that go on deaf ears or are put down, only to have a male colleague make the same suggestion and it's met with praise. What is that? It's not an overt act of sexism, and yet, it is, but without intent. And yet when I raise the question, it is received with a horrible response. (And that isn't even close to comparison, imo, as to what brought up this issue.)

 

I don't have a solution. But maybe we each need to re-evaluate and truly examine each and everything we do and say, and ask the hard questions of ourselves. Maybe those student in Washington shouldn't have gone where they were told not to go, and shouldn't have donned their hats, to do ... what? What was in their minds? I can't know that for certain, but I'm pretty sure some of them were thinking, 'Heh, watch this' as if it's some joke to them, because hey, they didn't really mean anything by it. And I'm not saying they were at fault in this situation, but I think they do bear some of the responsibility. As do we all.

 

I just question a lot. Myself more than anyone else.

[biggentleben]

 

What mocking was there?  I have heard the tomahawk chops referenced, but if you see earlier in the video that was being done by the Native American groups while they were singing.  Now, you could say the kids shouldn't have joined in maybe, but even Phillips said he was happy they got into it and tried to sing along.  

 

Did I miss the press conference when the political left and right formally announced that video evidence is no longer a thing?

 

There are dozens of videos out at this point, along with long-form social media posts from multiple attendees of the Native gathering. When multiple people from multiple tribes (and anyone Native will know that a gathering like this is about the only time people from various tribes will ever agree) have very similar reports of phrases like "prairie n****r" coming from the boys once they arrived. That report was on a Reuters news report that I played with my children present (not knowing that would be in the news report, obviously).

 

I've now had the conversation with my 4 Native children about what that phrase means. Two cried. One asked why someone would not like her just because she's Native. One asked if that will go away when they're adopted. The oldest is 7.

 

That's what this moment has opened up.

[biggentleben]

 

It's funny how the one team stays in the locker room for the national anthem, but then they get upset when someone has a Trump flag. The blanket excuse by the parent was pretty lame.   It's going to be a long, at-least-two more years of this back and forth nonsense.

 

It's funny that the national anthem before a sporting event is still a thing...

[TheLeviathan]

 

There are dozens of videos out at this point, along with long-form social media posts from multiple attendees of the Native gathering. When multiple people from multiple tribes (and anyone Native will know that a gathering like this is about the only time people from various tribes will ever agree) have very similar reports of phrases like "prairie n****r" coming from the boys once they arrived. That report was on a Reuters news report that I played with my children present (not knowing that would be in the news report, obviously).

 

I've now had the conversation with my 4 Native children about what that phrase means. Two cried. One asked why someone would not like her just because she's Native. One asked if that will go away when they're adopted. The oldest is 7.

 

That's what this moment has opened up.

 

It might have happened, but let's be honest here: what Phillips told us happened versus the video are not the same thing.  It's why witnesses are so unreliable.  His accusations towards the boys don't hold up upon the whole video.  Is it possible those accounts are also inaccurate?

[biggentleben]

 

It might have happened, but let's be honest here: what Phillips told us happened versus the video are not the same thing.  It's why witnesses are so unreliable.  His accusations towards the boys don't hold up upon the whole video.  Is it possible those accounts are also inaccurate?

 

Which whole video, Levi?

 

You've come in ranting for folks to eat crow. I had not responded to the initial video. It sickened me, and it was something I wanted to just see go away in my feed. However, when suddenly every right-wing, conservative person in my newsfeed was ranting on how the boys were "innocent", there's crow to be served all over the place as more videos get released.

 

Talking with a friend who reports with CNN about why updated/new videos aren't getting push, he said that the story is absolutely toxic. Producers and editors don't want to touch it, so they're told they can retweet blankly videos on social media, but they are to refrain from adding commentary. The first "full-length" video has now been shown to have been scrubbed in audio and edited in two places. Yet, it's still the primary video used as "the boys were innocent" argument.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't have a solution. But maybe we each need to re-evaluate and truly examine each and everything we do and say, and ask the hard questions of ourselves. Maybe those student in Washington shouldn't have gone where they were told not to go, and shouldn't have donned their hats, to do ... what? What was in their minds? I can't know that for certain, but I'm pretty sure some of them were thinking, 'Heh, watch this' as if it's some joke to them, because hey, they didn't really mean anything by it. And I'm not saying they were at fault in this situation, but I think they do bear some of the responsibility. As do we all.

 

I just question a lot. Myself more than anyone else.

 

Those are all good questions, I think it cycles back to the origin of this thread too.  Am I responsible for my privilege?  Am I responsible for ignorance?

 

I don't think so.  What I'm responsible for is how I react to situations when they occur and someone felt offended.  Now, sometimes, I'm going to push back because I don't believe every time someone is offended that I owe an apology.  But sometimes I do and at the very least I owe them to listen.  

 

But here's the thing...we also have to listen the other way.  Someone with no ill-intent, being labeled a racist pretty much ends our chance to reverse their ignorance.   Now, I'm not saying we listen to KKK people about their opinions, I think that's an obvious waste of time.  But the ignorant?  (In the true sense of the word)  Or those who inadvertently crossed a line?  I hope we are at least open to the idea that their actions need to be changed, but the person is not a horrible, irredeemable racist.  At least I hope that's true.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Which whole video, Levi?

 

The one that was over an hour long you posted.  

 

Yes, the right wingers are being ridiculous.  I posted about that last night in fact, but let's be frank: most people here are liberal.  There is enough of an echo chamber, these conversations are useless if we aren't willing to call our own on the floor.  If there were conservative here I would (and have) done so.

 

Ain't the case in this thread.  Go watch that video, it doesn't validate that concern.

[Squirrel]

 

Those are all good questions, I think it cycles back to the origin of this thread too.  Am I responsible for my privilege?  Am I responsible for ignorance?

 

I don't think so.  What I'm responsible for is how I react to situations when they occur and someone felt offended.  Now, sometimes, I'm going to push back because I don't believe every time someone is offended that I owe an apology.  But sometimes I do and at the very least I owe them to listen.  

 

But here's the thing...we also have to listen the other way.  Someone with no ill-intent, being labeled a racist pretty much ends our chance to reverse their ignorance.   Now, I'm not saying we listen to KKK people about their opinions, I think that's an obvious waste of time.  But the ignorant?  (In the true sense of the word)  Or those who inadvertently crossed a line?  I hope we are at least open to the idea that their actions need to be changed, but the person is not a horrible, irredeemable racist.  At least I hope that's true.

Oh sure ... there is most definitely a way to approach things. You want someone to think, you want to provoke real thought; you don't want to provoke a shut down. So you do want to approach it without instantaneous labeling and combativeness. 'Left' and 'Right' do this in different instances. That won't solve anything and won't get anyone to think about their own actions, and is more likely to make someone dig in their heels even more. I think Brock said it at one point above ... or someone did ... maybe, when at home, under calmer surroundings, could this be a teaching moment for those kids? Perhaps that moment is now lost because of what transpired in the media, and that is truly unfortunate I can't even begin to address, but there are moments where I believe learning and thought could and should begin. Will that happen for everyone involved? No, but it will for some, and that's where I think you start.

 

Hmm ... are you responsible for your privilege? Not in that you have it. But yes, in how you view it and how you are aware of it, and how you take it granted or use it (not saying you do, just saying that generally) and how you pass that ideology down to your children ... maybe? (And no, I'm not trying to tell you how to parent, here. Just offering my thoughts.) But I think you said this by saying you are responsible for how you react; I think all of what I said is part of how you react to it. Are you responsible for ignorance? That's a more difficult one. How does one know of their own ignorance unless they are made aware? I guess if you are going to approach life without thinking beyond your own boundaries, maybe then to some extent you are responsible for your own ignorance. Maybe by having these discussions, as openly and as honestly as we each can, we are acknowledging to some degree our own ignorance and are trying to over come it? Am I now acting too ... self-righteous in my thoughts? I'm no better than anyone else. I try to hide that fact. As I said before ... I question myself ... a lot. I do try and think about what I say and do, particularly if I get a response to something I've said or done that is ... less than favorable. I will initially react with ... well ... denial, maybe, push back, certainly ... but then I do go and think about what caused that particular exchange ... why it hurt or offended me, why it made me angry, why I reacted as I did. But am I responsible for others ignorance beyond myself? Maybe we should be, to some extent, by taking on 'teachable moments' rather than leaving the more difficult task to others?

 

And now we are getting into depths that are well beyond an internet message board, imo. We all have a personal journey, and I think we are all responsible for where that journey takes us, and hopefully we explore the whys of it, or some of it, along the way. <shrug> I really don't know how to answer that for anyone else let alone myself.