Vikings Off-Season Thread

[TheLeviathan]

 

I bet Paul Allen on KFAN today will have a hard time finding a loss on the schedule...

 

20-0.  Just in the regular season.

 

And then he'll awkwardly sexually harass someone on air and and collectively make the human race several degrees less intelligent with just a few minutes of air time.

 

But definitely 20-0

[nicksaviking]

Is there any non-O Lineman people would be interested in at pick 1? Don't kill me, I'm just curious! Like someone who if they unexpectedly fell anyone here would prefer? Months ago Montez Sweat and Greedy Williams would have seemed like intriguing choices but they look to have already fallen past initial expectations and no one should be surprised to see them at pick 18.

 

Cody Ford seems to be the popular pick. Does he profile as a "zone blocking" kind of guy? Looks athletic, but bigger than most zone blocking O Lineman. I'm kind of feeling like the Vikings will pick a lineman, but not one that people are expecting or hoping for.

[Vanimal46]

Is there any non-O Lineman people would be interested in at pick 1? Don't kill me, I'm just curious! Like someone who if they unexpectedly fell anyone here would prefer? Months ago Montez Sweat and Greedy Williams would have seemed like intriguing choices but they look to have already fallen past initial expectations and no one should be surprised to see them at pick 18.

 

Cody Ford seems to be the popular pick. Does he profile as a "zone blocking" kind of guy? Looks athletic, but bigger than most zone blocking O Lineman. I'm kind of feeling like the Vikings will pick a lineman, but not one that people are expecting or hoping for.

Yes, TE TJ Hockenson from Iowa is #1 on my big board. If he's there at 18 I'd take him in a heart beat.

 

The Vikings also have to think about it if an elite DL talent slides down to 18. If Ed Oliver is there at 18 I'd have a hard time passing that up.

[Vanimal46]

FWIW...

 

[nicksaviking]

 

FWIW...

 

Ha, I guess that answers my second paragraph!

 

Obviously I'd want O lineman who are best suited to running the system we are going to implement.

 

But that better mean Kubiak, Dennison and the rest of the offensive brain trust are expected to be here long term, because I wouldn't want a bunch of guys on the roster who are ill suited to an additional change in a year or two.

[nicksaviking]

 

Yes, TE TJ Hockenson from Iowa is #1 on my big board. If he's there at 18 I'd take him in a heart beat.

The Vikings also have to think about it if an elite DL talent slides down to 18. If Ed Oliver is there at 18 I'd have a hard time passing that up.

 

Seems most people have Fant over Hockenson these days. I don't know much though, I'm not really into TEs so I haven't paid them much mind. It's been a long time since any of the elite college TE prospects turned into an elite NFL tight end.

[Vanimal46]

Seems most people have Fant over Hockenson these days. I don't know much though, I'm not really into TEs so I haven't paid them much mind. It's been a long time since any of the elite college TE prospects turned into an elite NFL tight end.

Meh, those people are going to be wrong. Fant has helium because he had the fast 40 yard dash and 40+ inch vertical at the combine. Hockenson is an elite blocker, better hands, and plenty fast himself. Hockenson's 40 time is comparable to Kittle, Ertz, and Kelce.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not interested in hope and prayer that an IOL will be there at pick 2 or 3 or 4 that will work. This team has proven terrible at picking OL after round 2, they need 2-3 more of them!

 

They've proven perfectly fine at DL and WR later in the draft.....

[gunnarthor]

If a top 10 talent is somehow sitting there, I'd nab him. Otherwise, I don't have any particular feel to this draft. We need help in the OL so I think that should be our priority but I have no idea who we should be drafting.

[TheLeviathan]

if one of the elite defensive front players fall - I would be ok going best player available.  Otherwise, draft offensive line.

 

Jonah Williams is the best lineman, but I wouldn't take him at 1.  I like Williams, then Dillard, Ford, Risner, Lindstrom in that order.  They would all be worthy at 18.  I'd love it if we got Ford at 18 and then traded up in the 2nd for Risner.  Those two are both zone blockign guys with a ton of nastiness.  

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm not interested in hope and prayer that an IOL will be there at pick 2 or 3 or 4 that will work. This team has proven terrible at picking OL after round 2, they need 2-3 more of them!

 

They've proven perfectly fine at DL and WR later in the draft.....

 

In the small sample size, they're also terrible at picking OL in the 1st round as well. Under Spielman anyway.

 

But I agree, if I have no faith in Spielman's OL acumen (and I do not), I'd want them to grab as many as they can and cross my fingers.

 

If they have to go that route, and they probably do, I'd be a bit resentful if a stud defensive player was hanging there unexpectedly at #18 and they had to pass on him.

 

Though perhaps Spielman is now delegating those evaluations 100% to Kubiak, whom without really doing any research on his track record, I'd enthusiastically accept as the key OL decision maker. I get the feeling the type of linemen they're looking for aren't traditionally 1st round talent based on size and skill set.

[TheLeviathan]

If he is delegating, I don't recall a lot of those Broncos lines being built on first round picks.  The starting line for the 1998 Broncos had the highest pick at 67th.  Schlerth was a 10th rounder, Nalen a 7th, and the tackles were undrafted.  

 

So, if that is the case, we may end up taking guys in the middle rounds if past history is any indication.  

[nicksaviking]

 

If he is delegating, I don't recall a lot of those Broncos lines being built on first round picks.  The starting line for the 1998 Broncos had the highest pick at 67th.  Schlerth was a 10th rounder, Nalen a 7th, and the tackles were undrafted.  

 

So, if that is the case, we may end up taking guys in the middle rounds if past history is any indication.  

 

Yeah, if quick but undersized is the key for this scheme, taking those types of players may be reaching by as much as a couple of rounds. 1st round lineman are rarely undersized any longer.

 

OK yeah, after talking this out I'll predict that for better or worse the Vikings will NOT use their 1st round pick on OL. If they do it will be one of those interior guys in Van's tweet, not a tackle.

 

I'd really like a new LT. Though he's not the weakest link, I want Reiff moved or moved on from.

[TheLeviathan]

Most likely this is Reiff's last season. Drafting a swing guy makes a ton of sense too.

 

I predict the pick is Bradbury, DT Wilkins, DT Oliver, or someone who slides unexpectedly like Sweat or White.

[nicksaviking]

 

Most likely this is Reiff's last season. Drafting a swing guy makes a ton of sense too.

I predict the pick is Bradbury, DT Wilkins, DT Oliver, or someone who slides unexpectedly like Sweat or White.

 

Not sure why, but after OL I'm really craving a stud DT, I'd be all over Oliver if he slid. Wilkins looks like he could be great getting pressure up the middle too.

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not sure why, but after OL I'm really craving a stud DT, I'd be all over Oliver if he slid. Wilkins looks like he could be great getting pressure up the middle too.

 

I love Wilkins, Oliver too.  Here's the snag with that.....there will be good DTs still around in the third.  Probably some nice DE projects much like Hunter was in that range too.

 

Personally?  I'm kind of hoping they trade back with Oakland or someone else who has some picks to spare.  I'd like to mine this draft for a safety, a DT, and a pass rushing project.  There are so many talents at those positions it's scary.

 

And I think at the end of the first you could still land Lindstrom, Risner, maybe even Bradbury.  Then again, after last year, that could be one hell of a risk too.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Yes, TE TJ Hockenson from Iowa is #1 on my big board. If he's there at 18 I'd take him in a heart beat.

The Vikings also have to think about it if an elite DL talent slides down to 18. If Ed Oliver is there at 18 I'd have a hard time passing that up.

I posted this scenario over at purple pain, curious what you guys think:

 

http://purplepain.proboards.com/thread/1872/adam-levitre

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Not sure why, but after OL I'm really craving a stud DT, I'd be all over Oliver if he slid. Wilkins looks like he could be great getting pressure up the middle too.

 

You're craving that because we need one...

 

We don't have a 3T guy to line up next to Joseph... and I don't know about you, but I have visions of having our own Aaron Donald to match up with our edge rushers. 

[Mike Sixel]

I posted this scenario over at purple pain, curious what you guys think:

 

http://purplepain.proboards.com/thread/1872/adam-levitre

I'd trade a cb, if Hill was not suspended..... But no way I take a TE in the first. OL or DB or DL.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I posted this scenario over at purple pain, curious what you guys think:

 

http://purplepain.proboards.com/thread/1872/adam-levitre

 

I think you can land a high second for Waynes.  I do that in a heartbeat, but I'm not choosing Hockenson.  He's good, but this team has other pressing needs.

 

I said in my offseason wish list I'd like to sign Levitre and trade Waynes to the Bucs for their 2nd.  I still love both of those ideas.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think you can land a high second for Waynes.  I do that in a heartbeat, but I'm not choosing Hockenson.  He's good, but this team has other pressing needs.

 

I said in my offseason wish list I'd like to sign Levitre and trade Waynes to the Bucs for their 2nd.  I still love both of those ideas.

 

And who are the CBs the first 4 weeks, while Hill is suspended?

 

also, where were the Chiefs when the Vikes wanted to deal Griffen?

[TheLeviathan]

 

And who are the CBs the first 4 weeks, while Hill is suspended?

 

also, where were the Chiefs when the Vikes wanted to deal Griffen?

 

Woof, that's the second missed deal with Griffen.  

 

I would have Rhodes, Hughes, Alexander, and a draftee for corners.

[Mr. Brooks]

Woof, that's the second missed deal with Griffen.

 

I would have Rhodes, Hughes, Alexander, and a draftee for corners.

That secondary scares the hell out of me. We have no idea what we'll have in Hughes coming off a major injury. And I need to see Alexander repeat his progress from last year before I trust him as anything more than a 4th or 5th corner. And let's not forget that Rhodes was average by some metrics, well below average by others, last year. I know he was banged up, but still.

Holton Hill really burned us with his stupidity, though that's why he fell to UFA in the first place.

[Mr. Brooks]

Woof, that's the second missed deal with Griffen.

 

I would have Rhodes, Hughes, Alexander, and a draftee for corners.

Yeah, they better be right on Griffen. I mean, they are around him, and I've never met him, so for now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

And, I'm really rooting for him. But, he looked like a shell of his former self when he returned last year. Like a liability, actually.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That secondary scares the hell out of me. We have no idea what we'll have in Hughes coming off a major injury. And I need to see Alexander repeat his progress from last year before I trust him as anything more than a 4th or 5th corner. And let's not forget that Rhodes was average by some metrics, well below average by others, last year. I know he was banged up, but still.
Holton Hill really burned us with his stupidity, though that's why he fell to UFA in the first place.

 

It is less sound, but most good defensive coaches can do more with less.  I'm tired of having to pour first round picks into Zimmer's defense.  He should be able to coach up a 2nd or 3rd round corner into a functional player if need be.

 

If you're telling me this vikings team can have Waynes with the current OL or Risner/Lindstrom with that secondary?  I take option number two every time.  Even more so if the first round pick is another lineman.

 

(Especially since I see no way this team can keep Rhodes and Waynes beyond this season)

[Mr. Brooks]

It is less sound, but most good defensive coaches can do more with less. I'm tired of having to pour first round picks into Zimmer's defense. He should be able to coach up a 2nd or 3rd round corner into a functional player if need be.

 

If you're telling me this vikings team can have Waynes with the current OL or Risner/Lindstrom with that secondary? I take option number two every time. Even more so if the first round pick is another lineman.

 

(Especially since I see no way this team can keep Rhodes and Waynes beyond this season)

I disagree. 20 years ago, sure. The passing games are so good now, I think it's a myth that a good defensive coach can just "coach up" an average secondary.

Look how long it took Rhodes, Waynes and Alexander to become competent corners. Waynes was awful his first year. That might be the hardest position to just expect to step right into in the modern NFL.

I'm not saying they should spend a high pick on a corner, but I'm not comfortable trading Waynes now.

I'm actually a bit uncomfortable for the first 4 weeks even with Waynes.

[TheLeviathan]

I admit, none of the scenarios are ideal.  But there is a good chance next year we are down Waynes and Alexander.  Meaning we almost have to draft a corner this year anyway.

 

If that guy is going to be our 5th (my scenario) or 6th (your scenario) corner this year doesn't mean as much to me as the value we might next for that 2nd round pick.  

[Mr. Brooks]

I admit, none of the scenarios are ideal. But there is a good chance next year we are down Waynes and Alexander. Meaning we almost have to draft a corner this year anyway.

 

If that guy is going to be our 5th (my scenario) or 6th (your scenario) corner this year doesn't mean as much to me as the value we might next for that 2nd round pick.

He'd be your 4th guy for the first 4 weeks.

And it's not just about where that guy slots in, that's the least of my concerns about your plan.

It's where it slots everyone above him.

It moves Hughes into a starting role, instead of nickel. It moves Alexander into a nickel (which is basically a starter now), instead of a dime.

It's also so easy for modern NFL QB's to pick on your weakest link.

We saw that a lot the last couple years when Rhodes or Waynes would get hurt in game. Alexander would come in cold and just get mercilessly picked on.

 

I understand we may not be able to keep both, but their window is now. And I don't know why they wouldn't be able to keep Alexander. Unless he has a completely break out season, he should be very affordable. His improvement last year was great, but it doesn't erase the 50 shades of awful he was before that.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He'd be your 4th guy for the first 4 weeks.
And it's not just about where that guy slots in, that's the least of my concerns about your plan.
It's where it slots everyone above him.
It moves Hughes into a starting role, instead of nickel. It moves Alexander into a nickel (which is basically a starter now), instead of a dime.
It's also so easy for modern NFL QB's to pick on your weakest link.
We saw that a lot the last couple years when Rhodes or Waynes would get hurt in game. Alexander would come in cold and just get mercilessly picked on.

I understand we may not be able to keep both, but their window is now. And I don't know why they wouldn't be able to keep Alexander. Unless he has a completely break out season, he should be very affordable. His improvement last year was great, but it doesn't erase the 50 shades of awful he was before that.

 

For me, I'm more comfortable with this team as a Super Bowl contender with Hughes-Rhodes-Alexander-Rookie and two OL in the first two rounds.  Or an OL, a CB, and a DT.  Some combo of getting three high end players rather than just two and keeping Waynes.

 

Alexander may want to get paid to start on the outside rather than be a slot corner.  And the simple truth is we're running out of money to pay anyone. 

 

If we have to draft a corner (and we do, odd as that may seem), I'd rather have him play immediately and flip one of the guys leaving after this year for another player that we can retain going forward. 

 

Like I said, I don't love that decision.  I'd have preferred we did it earlier in the offseason when Waynes' 9M could've been put to use in FA.

[Vanimal46]

When it comes to trading Waynes, it needs to be a 2nd round pick for it to matter. Otherwise it's best to keep him and get a 3rd round comp pick if they lose him in FA.

 

I think Alexander really turned a corner last year and I'd feel comfortable with him as the starting nickel CB. I don't have a single clue how Hughes' recovery is going, and if he'll be ready to go week 1. If he is, then yeah, let's trade Waynes.