Vikings Off-Season Thread

[Vanimal46]

Time to dig deep and find out what went wrong with this team.

 

I want them to look at every aspect of the offense and determine what the main culprit is for the failure. I have a suspicion it all boils down to having a bad OL, but I'm not an elite NFL mind to know for sure.

 

Last year Keenum masked a bad OL and extended a lot of broken plays. It's fair to say IMO Cousins can't do that. So they need to change strategy and build a great OL to mask a slightly above average QB. Similar to what they did in 2012 to mask a terrible Christian Ponder.

 

This team still has a ton of talent, and only a few holes. My priority list:

 

- OL (1/2 OG, or 1 G and 1 C so Elflien can slide over to guard)

 

- TE - Rudolph should either restructure his contract or get released. I prefer released.

 

- DT - I don't think Richardson was worth the money. Look to the draft to replace him for a much reduced cost

 

- LB - Barr will get paid elsewhere, which is fine with me.

 

Thoughts?

[Vanimal46]

Oh, and find an OC that can build a relationship with Cousins, since we're stuck with him no matter what for the next year or 2.

[Mike Sixel]

Two new starting OL. Even competent play would be a huge upgrade. Spielman should be fired for the fact his OL has been awful every year since the good players left. He's drafted poorly, and been bad at signing free agents on the OL. And it was totally predictable.

 

Hire an OC that can stand up to Zimmer, and runs a modern offense. I'd prefer to trade or fire Zimmer, but that's not happening.

 

Cut Remmers. Cut sendejo. Either everson and Rudolph take pay cuts, or they are gone. Same with linval. I'd keep Richardson over him.

 

Fire the special teams coach, as he's been wrong on every kicker and punter.

[TheLeviathan]

Oklahoma's Cody Ford.  That's who I want with the first pick.  I think you could probably land another guard like Dieter in the third.  But who knows, linemen flew off the board last year. 

 

Josh Oliver might be an interesting target in the draft at TE.  Here's an early name at OLB I like: Vosean Joseph out of Florida.

 

But I very much agree with your rankings.  Here's the upside - having only four needs is not bad.  Downside?  The FA class of linemen is god awful.  Which, makes sense really.  Linemen in the NFL are awful by and large.

[TheLeviathan]

 

 

Two new starting OL. Even competent play would be a huge upgrade. Spielman should be fired for the fact his OL has been awful every year since the good players left. He's drafted poorly, and been bad at signing free agents on the OL. And it was totally predictable.

Hire an OC that can stand up to Zimmer, and runs a modern offense. I'd prefer to trade or fire Zimmer, but that's not happening.

Cut Remmers. Cut sendejo. Either everson and Rudolph take pay cuts, or they are gone. Same with linval. I'd keep Richardson over him.

Fire the special teams coach, as he's been wrong on every kicker and punter.

 

What Mike said.  Not a word in this I disagree with.

[Vanimal46]

Evidently the upcoming draft class is loaded with DL, particularly DT. With that being the case, I'd rather allocate Richardson's money elsewhere.

[Mike Sixel]

Evidently the upcoming draft class is loaded with DL, particularly DT. With that being the case, I'd rather allocate Richardson's money elsewhere.

So, pass on OL help again on day one? Great. Good luck. Rely on a bad free agent class, and late picks? Super.

[TheLeviathan]

 

So, pass on OL help again on day one? Great. Good luck. Rely on a bad free agent class, and late picks? Super.

 

I think he was suggesting you could replace Richardson in the second or third round and reallocate that money.  Maybe to the offensive line.

[gunnarthor]

I really don't think it's that hard to ID the problem. We need to fix the OL but realistically the Vikings were in a lot of games that they lost (or tied) and a competent OL would've changed the season quite a bit. I have no idea how to fix the OL but a quick look at some draft rankings suggest that there are a lot of OG to pick in the second and third rounds but would be reaches in the first round. I wouldn't oppose a stud left tackle but guard seems to be the priority.

 

I agree that the Vikings need a offensive coordinator who can forge a good relationship with Cousins but I'm not sure that's not the guy we already have.

I don't want to lose Anthony Barr. He was so good his first two seasons and he isn't playing at that level anymore but he's still really good. 

[Vanimal46]

So, pass on OL help again on day one? Great. Good luck. Rely on a bad free agent class, and late picks? Super.

No I meant it's very deep and they can find a potential starter later in the draft. I want to draft OL with the first 2 draft picks at least.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I really don't think it's that hard to ID the problem. We need to fix the OL but realistically the Vikings were in a lot of games that they lost (or tied) and a competent OL would've changed the season quite a bit. I have no idea how to fix the OL but a quick look at some draft rankings suggest that there are a lot of OG to pick in the second and third rounds but would be reaches in the first round. I wouldn't oppose a stud left tackle but guard seems to be the priority.

 

Last year there were a lot of projected 2nd roundguards too....and almost all of them went in the first and early 2nd. 

 

There is a serious scarcity of good linemen.  Because of that, I would be cautious about those rankings.

[TheLeviathan]

With Rhodes,Hughes, Alexander, and Hill....would dealing Waynes make sense?

 

Might net a nice draft pick for him.

[Mike Sixel]

With Rhodes,Hughes, Alexander, and Hill....would dealing Waynes make sense?

 

Might net a nice draft pick for him.

I'd rather deal Rhodes..... But I'd consider a trade, yes. But only for an IOL or DL.

[Vanimal46]

Maybe the Raiders are interested in draft picks for one of their OL. I've always been a fan of Osemele and wish the Vikings signed him 2-3 years ago when he hit FA for the first time... Otherwise Rodney Hudson or Gabe Jackson would be great too.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'd rather deal Rhodes..... But I'd consider a trade, yes. But only for an IOL or DL.

 

Rhodes would be more difficult due to the cap hit.  There would be none with Waynes.

[Mike Sixel]

Rhodes would be more difficult due to the cap hit. There would be none with Waynes.

But Waynes only has one year left in his deal. He's as good, younger, and healthier. I'd take the hit, if I can squeeze it in.

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe the Raiders are interested in draft picks for one of their OL. I've always been a fan of Osemele and wish the Vikings signed him 2-3 years ago when he hit FA for the first time... Otherwise Rodney Hudson or Gabe Jackson would be great too.

Agreed. They should have signed him when he was a free agent.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But Waynes only has one year left in his deal. He's as good, younger, and healthier. I'd take the hit, if I can squeeze it in.

 

I just can't see the team retaining him. If they dealt Rhodes, you'd be taking a 6M cap hit for several seasons.

 

Practically speaking,you can't do that.

[Mr. Brooks]

Last year there were a lot of projected 2nd roundguards too....and almost all of them went in the first and early 2nd.

 

There is a serious scarcity of good linemen. Because of that, I would be cautious about those rankings.

Will Hernandez was still sitting there in the first, and they passed.

I don't know how he finished the year, but around week 12 or so, he had the highest grade PFF had ever given to a rookie guard.

No matter who is taken, and who is still sitting there, Spielman has to identify who can play, and I'm not sure he can, since he passed on Hernandez who we desperately needed.

[Mr. Brooks]

I just can't see the team retaining him. If they dealt Rhodes, you'd be taking a 6M cap hit for several seasons.

 

Practically speaking,you can't do that.

Wait, when you trade a player, the other team doesn't have to take on that player's cap hit? That makes no sense.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Wait, when you trade a player, the other team doesn't have to take on that player's cap hit? That makes no sense.

 

They take the full cap hit, but we would get a dead cap hit.  Rhodes makes 13M, if we trade or cut him we absorb a hit for doing so.  I believe (based on Sportrac) that the hit would be about 6M.

 

So while we would save 7M dealing Rhodes, we'd still likely have to give Waynes an extension that may eat some of that anyway.  That hit may be beyond this year as well, so it may not be a one time consequence.  But I'm not 100% certain on those issues.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Will Hernandez was still sitting there in the first, and they passed.
I don't know how he finished the year, but around week 12 or so, he had the highest grade PFF had ever given to a rookie guard.
No matter who is taken, and who is still sitting there, Spielman has to identify who can play, and I'm not sure he can, since he passed on Hernandez who we desperately needed.

 

My point was only that counting on top guard talent to last past the first is not a given.  Last year many of them went higher than expected. 

 

Hernandez, from what I've read, was slightly above average.  Which would absolutely be a huge improvement from what we got.  I would like two of their top 4 picks to go to OL.  Drafting two guards to start and bring back Easton or someone comparable. 

[gunnarthor]

This seems like a pretty decent explanation of salary cap, dead space, etc for player contracts.

 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/9/6/17600618/nfl-salary-cap-2018-everything-to-know-about-salaries

[TheLeviathan]

 

This seems like a pretty decent explanation of salary cap, dead space, etc for player contracts.

 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/9/6/17600618/nfl-salary-cap-2018-everything-to-know-about-salaries

 

It is, but I find it hard sometimes to figure out how the bonuses are paid out.  According to Sportrac, Rhodes will cost the team 7.2M next year if traded, then 4.8 and 2.4 the next two years.  His 2019 cap hit is 13.4.  So if you trade him you save 6.2M in the short-term, but you'll lose cap space the next two years on him as well. 

 

I think you might actually fetch more for Waynes and without the cap implications.

[Otto von Ballpark]

"Kirk Cousins Is Not Better Than Joe Montana. So Let’s Fix Passer Rating."

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kirk-cousins-is-not-better-than-joe-montana-so-lets-fix-passer-rating/

[Badsmerf]

Nice article. I need to catch up on 538. Been so busy with the holidays and moving.

[TheLeviathan]

 

"Kirk Cousins Is Not Better Than Joe Montana. So Let’s Fix Passer Rating."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kirk-cousins-is-not-better-than-joe-montana-so-lets-fix-passer-rating/

 

I dig it.

 

[Badsmerf]

Cousins is at least an above average qb. I'm not sure if he'll love up to his contract, but what was the alternative? A few of the big drops are completely expected. I would think NFL executives use more advanced metrics to evaluate their qbs, and players in general.

[Mike Sixel]

Right. What was the alternative? They couldn't go into the draft without a QB....

[TheLeviathan]

 

Right. What was the alternative? They couldn't go into the draft without a QB....

 

And Keenum wasn't the answer.  I know there are some that still think otherwise, but it's simply not true.  

 

We saw the good and the bad of Cousins, let's hope he learns from this.  The bad is him being too much in his own head, but the good is worth hoping for, it's elite level QB play.