Mike Zimmer

[nicksaviking]

So he says he's not resigning or retiring. Mike Florio seems to think he's daring the Vikings to do something. Others speculate that he'd like the Bengals job as it's near his ranch. Plenty of Vikings fans likely want a new coach, which isn't uncommon after a .500(ish) season. Only a year removed from the NFC Championship game and lots of money tied to still very good defensive players, the front office probably wouldn't think it prudent however.

 

So if Cincinnati did want him but the Vikings don't feel like he should be fired, could there be a trade? I'd think it would be a way for just about everyone to come away without egg on their face. 

[Vanimal46]

I don't know why Zimmer would be interested in the Cincinnati job itself. That place needs to be torn down to the studs and rebuilt in every facet.

[gunnarthor]

Didn't the NFL end the trading for coaching thing?

 

As to Zimmer, I'm on the fence. I don't want another Childress or Tice, that's for sure. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Didn't the NFL end the trading for coaching thing?

 

As to Zimmer, I'm on the fence. I don't want another Childress or Tice, that's for sure. 

 

I don't think they ended it, I kept hearing about how teams might try to trade for John Harbaugh, but maybe all that was incorrect. I'd also be worried about a Chidress or Tice. With the skill position players and the freak athletes on defense, I'd think it would be a really attractive job though.

 

I'd still keep Zimmer but if the team was confident they could find the next hot-shot offensive mind I'd be open I guess. Speilman's decisions tend to have no middle ground though, they seem to be either tremendous or tremendously bad.

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't know why Zimmer would be interested in the Cincinnati job itself. That place needs to be torn down to the studs and rebuilt in every facet.

 

Yeah, that looks like a terrible job to me as well. Speculation is that he likes the organization and it's near his home which is important to him.

[ashbury]

Others speculate that he'd like the Bengals job as it's near his ranch.

I don't keep up with things. A ranch near Cincinnati? LOL, my mom grew up in southern Indiana. After viewing this video, I think I know a large farm in the hills when I see one. And, by extension, a blowhard.

[Badsmerf]

Zimmer has almost a.600 win percentage as a head coach. This was with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Keenum as qb for 3 seasons. I'd be surprised if any are ever named a starter going into another season.

 

Zimmer has faults, most glaringly his record in prime time games is unacceptable. There have been clear preparation let downs. The Bills game is a good example. These are exceptions and not the rule though. Even Bill Belichick has games like that, and he has had an all time great qb for almost his entire time at New England.

 

I don't think the talent is consistent on this roster. That is why I put more blame on Spielman than Zimmer.

[Mike Sixel]

They went all in this year, and didn't even make the playoffs. What had Zimmer done? They had the luckiest play ever for their one real playoff win. This team wasn't up for starting well in one difficult game this year. If Cincinnati will trade their first pick, I do it instantly. I might fire him.

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't keep up with things. A ranch near Cincinnati? LOL, my mom grew up in southern Indiana. After viewing this video, I think I know a large farm in the hills when I see one. And, by extension, a blowhard.

 

It's in Kentucky from the sound of it. I've never been invited.

 

He is smiling virtually the whole time in the video though; I don't think I've seen him smile anywhere else. So reports of his fondness of the property might not be misplaced. Cincinnati must be a magical area.

[Mike Sixel]

I've never understood how they can have awesome talent, and win so little in the post season, and not have Zimmer be questioned. Which is it, they have a ton of talent, or not?

[ashbury]

It's in Kentucky from the sound of it.

Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana. Tomayto, Tomahto, Ketchup.

[Mr. Brooks]

Zimmer has almost a.600 win percentage as a head coach. This was with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Keenum as qb for 3 seasons. I'd be surprised if any are ever named a starter going into another season.

 

Zimmer has faults, most glaringly his record in prime time games is unacceptable. There have been clear preparation let downs. The Bills game is a good example. These are exceptions and not the rule though. Even Bill Belichick has games like that, and he has had an all time great qb for almost his entire time at New England.

 

I don't think the talent is consistent on this roster. That is why I put more blame on Spielman than Zimmer.

When you say his record in prime time games is unacceptable, what do you mean? Because it sounds like you don't want him fired, which would mean that it is acceptable to you.

 

I disagree that the lack of preparation is the exception. It looks like it's clearly the rule to me. There is enough talent on the roster to beat bad teams ill prepared, but they are terrible against good teams.

[Mr. Brooks]

Here are his records vs winning and losing teams:

 

2014:

0-6 vs winning teams.

0-1 vs .500 teams.

7-2 vs losing teams.

 

2015:

2-5 vs winning teams.

1-0 vs .500 teams.

8-1 vs losing teams.

 

2016:

4-5 vs winning teams.

0-1 vs .500 teams.

4-2 vs losing teams.

 

2017:

6-3 vs winning teams.

0-0 vs .500 teams.

8-1 vs losing teams.

 

2018:

1-6 vs winning teams.

0-0 vs .500 teams.

7-1-1 vs losing teams.

 

5 year total:

13-25 vs winning teams.

1-2 vs .500 teams.

34-7-1 vs losing teams.

 

 

Look at those totals. He beats up on crappy teams. He can't beat good teams.

One of those years looks like an outlier, and it's not this year. His teams don't come ready to play against the good teams, and those are the teams you have to beat to win a Super Bowl.

[Vanimal46]

Awesome stuff Mr Brooks. Something that definitely needs to be considered when evaluating Zimmer.

[gunnarthor]

 

Here are his records vs winning and losing teams:

2014:
0-6 vs winning teams.
0-1 vs .500 teams.
7-2 vs losing teams.

2015:
2-5 vs winning teams.
1-0 vs .500 teams.
8-1 vs losing teams.

2016:
4-5 vs winning teams.
0-1 vs .500 teams.
4-2 vs losing teams.

2017:
6-3 vs winning teams.
0-0 vs .500 teams.
8-1 vs losing teams.

2018:
1-6 vs winning teams.
0-0 vs .500 teams.
7-1-1 vs losing teams.

5 year total:
13-25 vs winning teams.
1-2 vs .500 teams.
34-7-1 vs losing teams.


Look at those totals. He beats up on crappy teams. He can't beat good teams.
One of those years looks like an outlier, and it's not this year. His teams don't come ready to play against the good teams, and those are the teams you have to beat to win a Super Bowl.

What numbers should we expect? What is the expected winning percentage against teams over .500 for a team that goes 48-34-1 over five seasons? Can you compare those numbers to other similar coaches?

[gunnarthor]

 

They went all in this year, and didn't even make the playoffs. What had Zimmer done? They had the luckiest play ever for their one real playoff win. This team wasn't up for starting well in one difficult game this year. If Cincinnati will trade their first pick, I do it instantly. I might fire him.

If we're going to penalize him for the luckiest playoff win, do we give him credit for the unluckiest playoff loss?

 

I'm not sure if Zimmer is the answer or not but I do think he's a good coach. His problems seem to be more on the offensive side of the ball which a good coordinator and OL could fix.

[TheLeviathan]

 

If we're going to penalize him for the luckiest playoff win, do we give him credit for the unluckiest playoff loss?

 

I'm not sure if Zimmer is the answer or not but I do think he's a good coach. His problems seem to be more on the offensive side of the ball which a good coordinator and OL could fix.

 

Do you think he's maximized the talent on defense though?

 

My answer would be a definite no.

 

[Mike Sixel]

If we're going to penalize him for the luckiest playoff win, do we give him credit for the unluckiest playoff loss?

 

I'm not sure if Zimmer is the answer or not but I do think he's a good coach. His problems seem to be more on the offensive side of the ball which a good coordinator and OL could fix.

Did they go all in? Did they make the playoffs? In five years they have one playoff win.... Is that good? I don't think that is good at all. Not for a supposedly talent laden team.

[gunnarthor]

 

Do you think he's maximized the talent on defense though?

 

My answer would be a definite no.

He's pretty close, isn't he? They've been #14, 13, 3, 1 and 4 over the last five years in total defense. Again, I'm not nearly as big into football as baseball but the defense has seemed pretty good with the occasional clunker.

[gunnarthor]

 

 

Did they go all in? Did they make the playoffs? In five years they have one playoff win.... Is that good? I don't think that is good at all. Not for a supposedly talent laden team.

Not what you were asked though, was it? This year was disappointing but I'm not sure the main reason (OL) was his fault and, while 2016 sucked, I'm not sure 8-8 was all that surprising considering the other messes the team was dealing with.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He's pretty close, isn't he? They've been #14, 13, 3, 1 and 4 over the last five years in total defense. Again, I'm not nearly as big into football as baseball but the defense has seemed pretty good with the occasional clunker.

 

Rankings-wise they've been ok, but there is an elite amount of talent on this roster.  The defense nearly choked that Saints game away last year. It was routinely abused by other top teams.  The Philly game was a disaster and it seems like good offenses can roll this defense.

 

Given the talent, I'd say he underperformed.  And when that's the case, yeah, I blame the coach and not the GM.

[Badsmerf]

Rankings-wise they've been ok, but there is an elite amount of talent on this roster. The defense nearly choked that Saints game away last year. It was routinely abused by other top teams. The Philly game was a disaster and it seems like good offenses can roll this defense.

 

Given the talent, I'd say he underperformed. And when that's the case, yeah, I blame the coach and not the GM.

That feels like a straw man argument. All teams play good and bad teams during the year. You can't throw out a season worth of a sample, and focus on a couple games. For example, this team was extremely good on third downs this season (not as good as 2017, but close). They were torched on 3rd downs against the bears. But, their best cover corner, and one of the better corners in the league, was out. I believe Rhodes changes that stat, and potentially changes that game.

 

Talent alone doesn't win games, like has already been said. In the modern NFL, what matters most IMO is 3rd efficiency and touchdowns. Offensive effectiveness is important while assessing the defense. Vikings did neither well Sunday against the Bears. Defenses obviously adjusted to the Vikings offense mid year and were able to exploit their weaknesses (mainly, an immobile qb and leaky OL).

 

That said, Zimmer/Spielman need to fix the problems. Signing Cousins was great, but everyone screamed for OL help that never came. I wonder if they held back on making major roster changes with the fear of backlash from the core players. They should have free reign to reshuffle the deck now, and still have the strong core players.

[TheLeviathan]

The Bears rolled out a vanilla gameplay in a must win game and moved the ball at will on the Vikings. Injuries are not a valid excuse. This defense also got torched by the Eagles in the championship and numerous times this season.

 

Their ranking matters, but they never felt or acted dominant. There is too much talent and money invested on that side of the ball to be anything less than dominant.

[gunnarthor]

 

The Bears rolled out a vanilla gameplay in a must win game and moved the ball at will on the Vikings. Injuries are not a valid excuse. This defense also got torched by the Eagles in the championship and numerous times this season.

Their ranking matters, but they never felt or acted dominant. There is too much talent and money invested on that side of the ball to be anything less than dominant.

I guess this is eye of the beholder stuff. Last year, they beat the Saints twice, knocked Rodgers out for the year, held Atlanta to 9 points and made Julio Jones a non-factor, held the Rams to 7 points, and were the #1 defense by pretty much every measure and #1 historically in some measurements. That seems like they were pretty dominant. You want to throw that out b/c they got blown out in Philly, fine. But not everyone will agree with you.

They weren't quite as good this year but the defense still kept the team in a lot of games, especially after the offense imploded in the second half of the year.  All those three and outs by the offense were huge - opposing teams dominated time of possession. The Vikings lost TOP in 6 of the last 8 games. In any event, the defense isn't the problem and I'm perfectly fine with Zimmer's defensive scheming. If the Vikings had a credible OL, I suspect a lot of these complaints would be smoothed over.

 

That said, they weren't perfect. They need to get more turnovers on defense. Richardson was pretty run down by the end of the year and not all that effective (I'm not convinced the Vikings won't draft a big DT in the first round and address the OL later in this draft). Kendricks and Barr can be beaten in coverage by fast RBs. 

[Vanimal46]

I think next year we need to balance the scales between offense and defense investments. Since Zimmer became coach, we've invested a 1st round pick on defense every year, along with key FA signings.

 

In 2019 Zimmer needs to prove his worth developing late round/undrafted talent at LB/DL. It's imperative to invest heavy in FA and draft capital on offense. Particularly OL.

[gunnarthor]

 

I think next year we need to balance the scales between offense and defense investments. Since Zimmer became coach, we've invested a 1st round pick on defense every year, along with key FA signings.

In 2019 Zimmer needs to prove his worth developing late round/undrafted talent at LB/DL. It's imperative to invest heavy in FA and draft capital on offense. Particularly OL.

That's not quite right, though. In 2016 they spent their first round pick on Treadwell. In 2017 they didn't have a #1 pick but their first pick was Cook. And Weatherly was a 7th round pick that's developed. Gideon was a fourth rounder (is that late?). 

 

As to key FA signings, our biggest FA signings since Zimmer took over coaching duties have been Cousins 84m, all guaranteed. And last year (2017) the big signings were - Reiff 5/59m (26m GTD) and Remmers 5/30 (10m GTD), both OL. I don't have a list of all FA we've signed over the last five years but I think most of the money for them has gone to the offensive side of the ball.

[Vanimal46]

2014: Barr and Teddy 1st round picks. Big money FA DT Linval Joseph and CB Captain Munnerlyn

 

2015: Waynes 1st Kendricks 2nd Hunter 3rd. No big FAs to note. Largest contract they handed out was resigning John Sullivan.

 

2016: Treadbust 1st Mackenzie Alexander 2nd. Big FA signing OG Alex Boone (ouch!)

 

2017: Cook 2nd Elflien 3rd. Big FA signing Reiff, Remmers, and Latavius.

 

2018: Hughes 1st O'Niell 2nd. Big FA signing Kirk.

 

Now that I look at it he did invest heavy on defense early but transitioned to offense lately. My perception was flawed.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That said, they weren't perfect. They need to get more turnovers on defense. Richardson was pretty run down by the end of the year and not all that effective (I'm not convinced the Vikings won't draft a big DT in the first round and address the OL later in this draft). Kendricks and Barr can be beaten in coverage by fast RBs. 

 

I agree the offensive line has to be better, but the defense can't have this much investment and come up this short when we really need them.  Sometimes we need them to be the boot on someone's throat and too often for my liking they just aren't that team.

 

I appreciate the development Zimmer has done with Hunter, Kendricks, Alexander, Sendejo, Rhodes, etc.  I really do.  But the blame for this season isn't all on the offense either.  The defense lost us plenty of games too and as long as that's Zimmer's baby, he gets the bulk of the blame.  (I've also been worried that every time he meddles in the offense it's generally for the worse)