Article: Twins Sign 2B Jonathan Schoop

[Loosey]

This doesn't look like one of those "bargain basement" deals to me.  To me this looks like a deal where the Twins like what they have in the minors and don't want to over pay for someone when the replacement is already in the minors or sitting at SS already.  

 

I think Schoop is a good hitter could be a very good signing.

[Loosey]

I also think a lot of us are making a bit too much of a big deal about Schoop.  Even if the Twins signed Joe Morgan to play 2nd base it is not going to matter if Buxton and Sano crash a burn again.

[ashbury]

I also think a lot of us are making a bit too much of a big deal about Schoop.  Even if the Twins signed Joe Morgan to play 2nd base it is not going to matter if Buxton and Sano crash a burn again.

True. But worst-case is not why you build a roster.

[bird]

Scenario #1: Derek and Thad call a meeting with the Professional Scouting Department

 

 

Derek: "Good morning everyone. You've now all had plenty of time to do your homework on the list of possible free agent candidates for second base. You've had a chance to review the medicals of each candidate and ask questions of our medical and training people. We hope that you've once again honored our request to refrain from having a discussion amongst yourselves about these candidates to avoid group-think. You'll recall that at yesterday's meeting, when we discussed shortstop candidates, the consensus recommendation was that we pass on all candidates. All the 2B candidates have flaws, but unlike with the SS exercise, where we asked you to recommend any candidate you thought would provide us with better overall production than Polanco, we're asking a different question today, as you all know. The question again is, which of the available FA candidates do you believe would give us the best overall production in 2019? Our candidates again are Lowrie, La Mahieu, Kinzler, Murphy, and Schoop."

 

Unanimous chorus from the room: "Schoop".

 

Derek: "Thank you. Then that's who we'll pursue."

 

Scenario #2: Thad and Derek call a meeting with the Analytics Department.

 

Thad: "Good morning everyone. We've asked you to calculate a projected WAR-to-dollar ratio for each of the second base candidates based on market projections regarding the required financial commitment extended out over the predicted contract length required for each candidate and recommend the best candidate based on value. What have you fellow geeks come up with?"

 

Unanimous chorus from the room: "Schoop."

 

Derek: "That's nice to hear, because he's our first choice."

Edited December 7, 2018 by birdwatcher

[jkcarew]

Seems reasonable. Like some others, I wouldn't have minded more than a one-year deal given his age and (pre-2018) record.  But then, maybe it was a combination of Schoop wanting to bet on himself, and the Twins FO still betting on Gordon.

 

It's hard to wrap my head around a second-baseman (who can actually play the position) as large as Schoop is. If we had Corey Seager instead of Polanco, we'd have almost 1000 pounds of infield (not counting catcher). It's worth taking to marketing. The half-ton infield...the F-150 infield, maybe. Worth a try.

[ewen21]

 

Yikes at our middle infield defense between Schoop and Polanco staying at short because of this

What are you talking about?

He is a middle of the road defender by almost any measure:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

Certainly better than Dozier by any measure last year.  Polanco isn't terrible at short either.

 

Both are adaquate fielders, not "yikes"

 

Dozier sucked last year and there were a lot of people thinking he should have gotten an extension.  I wasn't one of them  I like this pickup.  What the heck is so wrong with it?

 

I just cannot understand the reaction (overreaction) to this or the Cron deal.

[Mike Sixel]

I recognize the inherent risk based on his woeful Brewers performance last year but if you are looking a player trying to repair himself and if successful... that production for a year is meaningful.

 

But if you feel different that’s ok

I think it is worth the risk. I think it helps this team long term not at all. Without huge changes, this isn't a playoff team. So, this just doesn't do anything for me.

[markos]

I dislike this move for three reasons:

 

First, I don't like the fact that the Brewer's - a front office that has nailed way more transactions than the Twins in the past two years - had an opportunity to tender him a contract (with a need at the position) and basically said, "thanks, but no thanks." 

 

Second, this move (combined with the Cron signing and all the moves last offseason) just give the impression that the front office thinks the core of this team is fine, and all they need to do is backfill on the margins. And I just disagree with that so strongly. This core is good and has upside, but it needs to complemented with more players that are stars, or at least solidly above-average. Last season, the gap in talent between the Twins and the top teams in the league was roughly 20-25 WAR. Even in you pencil in huge rebounds from Sano and Buxton, this team still has a big talent gap. In fact, the gap is large enough that it will probably be a multi-year project to close that gap. Which is why it is all the more important to be making moves that will pay off in 2020 and 2021 as well as this coming year. Schoop and Cron, while fine in a vacuum, at best replace Escobar's and Mauer's production from last year. And neither move really helps next season. This team is just spinning its wheels.

 

Third, since I feel like this is just a move to maintain the status quo, I don't see the need to be a first-mover in the 2B market when there are like 8 roughly league-average options available in free agency. They are really betting on Schoop for some reason. 

[Riverbrian]

I think it is worth the risk. I think it helps this team long term not at all. Without huge changes, this isn't a playoff team. So, this just doesn't do anything for me.

Playoff? No idea from me but I do firmly believe that the core is capable of leading the way. It’s going to be up to them and I’m all for throwing support that direction in case it happens.

 

7M... eh... it’s only money.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Playoff? No idea from me but I do firmly believe that the core is capable of leading the way. It’s going to be up to them and I’m all for throwing support that direction in case it happens.

7M... eh... it’s only money.

 

It's a roster spot on a guy that doesn't help past this year. Again. This is no way to build a sustainably competitive team.

[MABB1959]

Why didn’t they go for Goldscmmidt?

[cmoss84]

What is everyone's expectations for Schoop? If he hits .250 with 25 HRs and plays average to slightly above average defense are you going to be upset?

 

 

[Monkeypaws]

The Twins new right side of the infield hit over 50 HR last season. 12 million outlaid, and the defense is at least average. Mmmkay. You gotta put a team on the field.

 

Don't get the hate for the 1 year deal - as Dozier showed us the last couple seasons, 2nd basemen are a dime a dozen. 

 

Short term seems like the better play to me - Buxton, Sano, catcher, bullpen, even Kepler and the back-end of the rotation are all ??? at this point. The elite prospects are still a year away at least. Berrios, Rosario, + ?

 

See if we have a core to build from and proceed. Not a lot of proven track record out there.

 

At the least, they've gotten younger and likely hungrier.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

It's a roster spot on a guy that doesn't help past this year. Again. This is no way to build a sustainably competitive team.

doesnt that depend on what they do with the rest of the roster needs? If Falvine were to swing a trade for an Arb 1 or 3-4 year contract starter and sign a couple high end relievers would you be so down on Schoop? I would have preferred Marwin to a multi year deal, but at least Schoop’s got something to prove.

[less cowbell more neau]

 

 

Your Minnesota Twins sign Schoop's old buddy Manny for 10 years $320M

 

Manny being Manny in Minny!

[bird]

I really don't understand the angst about this decision. I've tried to figure out what I'm missing. Please help me if I missed an argument against the move:

 

1. There were better FA options available. Okay, maybe, but that's disputable. It kinda depends on what you predict you'll see from Schoop, LaMahieu, Murphy... Maybe the FO disagrees with you.

 

2. The 1-year deal is too short. Because? If one believes Lewis is ready in 2020, that Polanco can be moved to 2B? Or that Gordon will be ready? Otr that Schoop won't re-sign? Or that a QO comp pick isn't good? Or that he can't be flipped? Do you really think a guy who WANTS a 1-year deal is going to pout like Lynn and Morrison, who wanted multi-year deals for boatloads more than they got? I don't see the downside here even if he's a one-and-done. So what if he doesn't help past 2019?

 

3. It's a sign they're punting on 2019. Well, let's wait on that thought. If they punt on the RP options, then I'll agree with this. Opinions vary here, but plenty of us believe that with 2-3 more smart decisions, and the Buxton/Sano thing, things could get better fast. Yes, it will take a Soria/Robertson/Cutch/ Bour (bye bye to Austin) type signing spree, but let's wait and see. 

 

4. I hate everything they do and I'm never happy. Well, you got me there. Hadn't considered that angle.

[AlwaysinModeration]

doesnt that depend on what they do with the rest of the roster needs? If Falvine were to swing a trade for an Arb 1 or 3-4 year contract starter and sign a couple high end relievers would you be so down on Schoop? I would have preferred Marwin to a multi year deal, but at least Schoop’s got something to prove.

I know there is a lot of clamoring for Marwin “Mr. Versatile” González around here. Just want to do a reality check. Career stats:

 

Schoop: 256/294/444, 11.5 career WAR, 27 years old, six seasons (minors/majors) >780 OPS

 

González: 264/318/419, 12 career WAR, 30 years old, three seasons (minors/majors) > 780 OPS

 

Marwin also hit over .300 two years ago...during a season he hit .343 on balls in play.

 

Maybe I’m reading the numbers wrong, but to me, I’d rather put my chips on Schoop having a better 2019 than Gonzalez.

[yarnivek1972]

If the plan for 2019 doesn't involve being competitive, why sign Schoop? Just give the job to Gordon.

A better question is if the Twins don’t plan to be competitive in 2019, why wasn’t Gibson dealt at the deadline? He would have brought in at least one blue chip prospect as opposed to the roster of project prospects they in fact acquired.

 

 

The lack of a clear, cohesive, consistent direction by this FO remains concerning.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Another guy who seems to be a preferred option to posters here is Jed Lowrie:

 

262/335/414, 17.6 career WAR, 35 years old. Six seasons (majors/minors) hitting 780+, Including the last two years hitting 800 plus.

 

He might be better than Schoop, but it’s probably a toss-up at best, going into his 35-year old season, he’s likely to start declining pretty fast. Is he the guy you want to sign to a multi-year contract?

 

To me, Daniel Murphy is the only clear upgrade over Schoop. And 1)I’m not sure Murphy would be a regular at 2B, and 2)they could still sign him (2b/1B/DH). Of course, he’s more expensive than Schoop, and that extra money could go towards relievers, for example.

[Danchat]

 

Another guy who seems to be a preferred option to posters here is Jed Lowrie:

262/335/414, 17.6 career WAR, 35 years old. Six seasons (majors/minors) hitting 780+, Including the last two years hitting 800 plus.

He might be better than Schoop, but it’s probably a toss-up at best, going into his 35-year old season, he’s likely to start declining pretty fast. Is he the guy you want to sign to a multi-year contract?

To me, Daniel Murphy is the only clear upgrade over Schoop. And 1)I’m not sure Murphy would be a regular at 2B, and 2)they could still sign him (2b/1B/DH). Of course, he’s more expensive than Schoop, and that extra money could go towards relievers, for example.

I dunno, Murphy's poor fielding compared to Schoop's above average fielding makes it pretty close. With the team the way that it is, I'd rather go with the younger Schoop (27) than Murphy (34). 

 

On a different note, I wonder what the Twins' chances are of extending Schoop if things go right? Maybe he'll enjoy his time here and the Twins will offer him a competitive deal. I wouldn't assume he goes right out the door in free agency if he hits well. We haven't seen this FO deal with a situation like that quite yet.

[Major League Ready]

 

A better question is if the Twins don’t plan to be competitive in 2019, why wasn’t Gibson dealt at the deadline? He would have brought in at least one blue chip prospect as opposed to the roster of project prospects they in fact acquired.


The lack of a clear, cohesive, consistent direction by this FO remains concerning.

 

I would hope they would shift direction / strategy when the variables or conditions that influence those strategies change. The Whitesox / Orioles / and Mariners are good recent examples and the Braves shifted directions not that long ago and are a shining example of how to do it right.

 

Just because we think Gibson should have or would have brought back a "bluechip" prospect does not mean one was offered.  They also may be hoping the team would come together the 2nd half of 18 and they did not want to give up players pivotal to 19. The only players they traded that were signed or where they had an option for 19 was Pressly and Rodney. Rodney was easily replaceable. While Pressly had value for 19, RPs are much easier to acquire than SPs. A 3rd possibility was they hoped to extend him.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Major League Ready

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I know there is a lot of clamoring for Marwin “Mr. Versatile” González around here. Just want to do a reality check. Career stats:

 

Schoop: 256/294/444, 11.5 career WAR, 27 years old, six seasons (minors/majors) >780 OPS

 

González: 264/318/419, 12 career WAR, 30 years old, three seasons (minors/majors) > 780 OPS

 

Marwin also hit over .300 two years ago...during a season he hit .343 on balls in play.

 

Maybe I’m reading the numbers wrong, but to me, I’d rather put my chips on Schoop having a better 2019 than Gonzalez.

for that very reason Schoop wasn’t gonna sign a 2 or 3 year deal. It’s not that I don’t like Schoop signing, i do, I’d just rather sign a 3 year deal with a quality and flexible fielder with a similar stat line.

[akmanak]

People keep mentioning "core group" what core group? Mauer Dozier, Esky and a constant switch at 3rd. There is no core group there is simply a FO who is going into different directions with from what it looks like no real solid plan unless they are counting on Lewis, Sano, and Buxton to be our saviors which I am tired of them having no backup plan.

[DocBauer]

Let's not kid ourselves. The future of this team is analytics and coaching, from top to bottom. It's taken 2 years now for most of that movement to take place. Once again, the new FO never said they were looking for or guaranteeing contention over night. This team is filled with question marks from Buxton to Sano to Kepler, etc. And some of those questions are frustrating as hell, with no answers until 2019 arrives.

 

And I am completely on board with building the best team for 2019 and beyond with the best and most versatile and deepest team they can put together, while working with all the talent on hand, while also promoting some of the young talent available and coming up.

 

At this point, still so early in the process, we don't know what the FO is going to do. They could play it cheap and run with the status quo and work on development. They could still make a couple really nice signings, maybe even incorporate a surprise trade. They could end up somewhere in between.

 

But I do know this, despite being a fan of both Dozier and Mauer, both are gone. And each had lesser or lousy season last year. Could there have been MAJOR moves made at 1B and 2B, in various scenarios and opinions, other than the moves made? Yes. But today, right now, with the moves made, overall, does 1B and 2B look better than how the season ended in 2018? To me the answer is yes.

 

I'm still waiting to see how things unfold before I get wrapped up in angst. For the moment, I find myself excited by a new manager and mostly new staff, and a couple additions that could prove smart.

[ND-Fan]

This signing fits for the Twins in that it fills immediate need and lets them have time to bring Gordon up from the minors this year.  The fit hits so many things for the Twins front office in that he replaces Dozier's numbers they had last year, plays adequate second base, the cost is cheap and is one year deal putting no financial burden on the club, also gives time for club to bring up Gordon this year, and if Gordon performs and he performs they trade him at the dead line pickup some prospect in the future. Also another thing little thing by delaying Gordons arrival they say service time on Gordon in the future whether as twin or if they decide to trade him the future.

I like to say again the Twins are not going to spend money like everyone has been saying here that they have all this extra spending money. The big question still to come is are they going to invest in any of players long term or are we going to just let year playout and they either trade the player or do a qualifying offer to retain them for another year. My guess is that the latter may be true after i have been thinking about it. I could see the Twins doing qualifying offers on Gibson and Ordorizzi for the coming year.  A 19 million dollar one year deal would not be that much higher than if they would have to sign these pitchers if they have good years on the Free agent market.  I may be wrong on this but i have inkling this is what might happen. My guess is were looking at major league payroll of around 80 to 85 million unless we should trade for Santanna yet this year. This should leave room to sign a starting pitcher to fill in for the last starter and possibly to find relief pitcher for the bull pen. Everyone thinking they were goiing to have payroll like last year was never going to happen.

[jorgenswest]

In isolation I like this move. Other than Machado, I wouldn’t want to give a multiyear contract to any of the middle infielders only to get one good year and pay for the decline. At 27 Schoop would have been a multiyear option but I don’t see why that would be his interest.

 

The Twins still need a good bat for the middle of the lineup. A bat that they can count on to get on base and drive in runs. A bat that can work a count. They can’t be done with the line up.

[howieramone2]

 

Interesting that it's a one year deal after all the hoopla made of mercenaries poisoning the well last year. I hope he plays great, but I'd have preferred a 2 year deal, or a more defensively sound Short Stop. 

Mercenaries poisoning the well last season? I completely missed that. Feel they should block Lewis for a season or so?

[howieramone2]

 

I think it's kind of surprising it seems like a move you make in early February after the shortstop upgrades were all gone.  Maybe Polanco gets traded who knows with this Front Office.

Polanco is part of the core. He'll move to 2B when Lewis is ready. Would not be surprised if we try to buy out some of his free agent years at some point in time.

[howieramone2]

 

In a vacuum, a fine deal and the type of deal teams like the Twins need to make (and succeed at) to thrive.

 

But I'm getting sick and tired of "fine" deals. This team has a truckload of money and they need to spend some of it on players who are more "guaranteed" than "upside if things go right".

Free agency is 9 innings also and we're only in the 2nd or 3rd inning. Plenty of time to make the big splash.

Edited December 8, 2018 by howieramone2

[howieramone2]

 

This. All the moves look good in a vacuum, but we don't live in a vacuum. In context of the other moves, you end up with 5-10 holes every year, because you refuse to acquire long term help.

The night is still young. I believe Jim Callis said we have 2 long term helps who will be ready next season.