Article: Where Can the Twins Find Some OBP for Their Lineup?

[mlhouse]

 

2019

 

78 wins in 2019?  Wooooohooo.   

[Nick Nelson]

 

No, giving opportunities to young players like Brent Rooker or Nick Gordon, and keeping the payroll flexible for when the Twins are actually competitive.  Why commit money to players that will be here today, not really do much, and then be gone tomorrow.

 

None of these guys are going to swing the needle much so why not lose while developing and evaulating the prospects?

This is a weirdly defeatist attitude. The AL Central is going to be eminently there for the taking next year, and the Twins should be right in the thick if Buxton & Sano rebound. I'm not sure I understand tanking while staking your future on unspectacular prospects like Rooker and Gordon. Sounds like a recipe for remaining in the perpetual cycle of rebuilding.

 

There are moves on this list that align with a long-term thinking. Bour and LeMahieu are 30. McCutchen would be helpful on a 3-year deal, creating veteran entrenchment. If these kinds of players are holding prospects back any time soon, it's a good problem to have.  

[Winston Smith]

 

No, giving opportunities to young players like Brent Rooker or Nick Gordon, and keeping the payroll flexible for when the Twins are actually competitive.  Why commit money to players that will be here today, not really do much, and then be gone tomorrow.

 

None of these guys are going to swing the needle much so why not lose while developing and evaulating the prospects?

Because losing sucks!

[djvang]

 

No doubt that we’re in need of two high OBP guys, but I don’t want the very same empty OBP that both Mauer and Grossman provided. What we need are guys who not only get on-base, but can hit the ball with some authority, which is why I’m still holding out hope that the FO can come to their senses and sign both Cruz and Lowrie.

It was always disappointing when Mauer would work a walk with RISP.  How about trying to drive in a run once in awhile? They need to be more aggressive at the plate.

[Nick Nelson]

 

It was always disappointing when Mauer would work a walk with RISP.  How about trying to drive in a run once in awhile? They need to be more aggressive at the plate.

Are you suggesting he swing at balls? Mauer has one of the highest batting averages with RISP in modern MLB history so criticizing him on this front seems off base. 

 

This team ain't lacking for guys who will reach for one and try to drive in a run. 

[adorduan]

 

If Rosario is going to be moved to the IF, I think it would be third at this point.

Yeah, don't waste that arm at 2nd base.....

[yarnivek1972]

Regarding McCutchen and his BB rate. It is worth noting that for most of his career he had zero protection around him. Quick, without looking name any other Pirate all star hitter during his tenure.

 

McCutchen drew a dozen intentional walks three times as a Pirate. Keep in mind, he hit third almost all the time. So, someone walked him to bring up a 4th place hitter. Frequently. I’m sure his plate discipline is better than most, but I would expect his BB rate to decline if he were in the middle of a good offensive team simply because teams would be less inclined to pitch around him. Of course, whether or not the 2019 Twins will be a good offensive team is still undetermined.

[DocBauer]

I vacillate between Gonzalez on a 4yr deal and Lowrie on a 2yr deal to man 2B. Both offer offense and flexibility. Obviously, Gonzalez is younger, even more flexible position wise, but Lowrie would probably provide the higher OB. Really torn.

 

I've been banging the drum for McCutchen for weeks now. He provides hitting, OB, power and decent defense for the next 2-3yrs. Too many Of? Especially with 2 1B/DH types, a couple utility guys, and maybe even another guy brought to camp like Solarte? I dont see it that way. Someone can start in the minors. Someone could be hurt. Someone could be traded.

 

Can you really have too much talent and too much depth? Get the guys on the roster and let Rocco and his staff figure out how to use them.

[ChrisKnutson]

No, giving opportunities to young players like Brent Rooker or Nick Gordon, and keeping the payroll flexible for when the Twins are actually competitive.  Why commit money to players that will be here today, not really do much, and then be gone tomorrow.

 

None of these guys are going to swing the needle much so why not lose while developing and evaulating the prospects?

 

I get what you’re saying, but when you’ve got two all-star veterans like Lowrie and Cruz readily available for a relatively affordable price ($60M total), mixed in with fact that Cleveland is “retooling,” why not sign them? Could it possibly be for naught? Sure, but it also could win us the division.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No, giving opportunities to young players like Brent Rooker or Nick Gordon, and keeping the payroll flexible for when the Twins are actually competitive.  Why commit money to players that will be here today, not really do much, and then be gone tomorrow.

 

None of these guys are going to swing the needle much so why not lose while developing and evaulating the prospects?

 

so, yes, have a bad team and more profit....while Buxton and Sano just, what, use all their service time in a lost cause?

 

I like Gordon, but he's not ready. I doubt they think Rooker is close, or they wouldn't bring in Cron. 

 

I'm not sure how acquiring players on 2-3 year deals hinders payroll, if you don't think they'll be good fro 2-3 years. Help me understand.

[Brandon Warne]

 

 

I was just going to say this. Launch angle and all these new metrics are garbage. They may be fine for power hitters but not for everyone. A little more patience at the plate and hitting the ball where it's pitched to would help.

 

The biggest thing that has killed me lately that the "professional hitters" can't beat a shift. A half swing for a lefty where the 3rd basemen is supposed to play is an easy double.

 

If it was that easy, hitters would do it. 

[cmoss84]

Daniel Murphy has a career .344 OBP (and .299 BA). He might sign a reasonable 2-3 year deal...

 

I like the Bour idea...except platoon him with Cron, not Austin. 

[ND-Fan]

For all of you posting we should sign Harper we have a better chance of winning the lottery than we signing him to come play for the Twins.  First is the Twins would never spend than kind of money one player that he's asking for and second is he would never come to the Twins a small market club and one that is not competitive. The Truth be told i don't think we have shot at any of the top free agents right now they don't want to noncompetitive team like the Twins. Also the Twins are in no position to sign this type of free agent until they better idea of structure of this team.

This team has regressed from last year at this time with only hope is that Buxton, Sano, Kepler, and Rosario continue to improve from their peak performances past couple of years. Second that Gordon can make the leap to majors this year and make some impact at the major league level. Also that young pitchers can come up provide quality major league pitching. All these things considered there are lot of ifs which usually equates in not that great a season ahead of us. I look at this club were going to really struggle to score runs not good thing with young pitching staff and more middle of row starters. Look at this team by position 1st. base Cron more power hitting but not the on base percentage of Mauer and definite down grade at fielding. Second base hasn't been filled but longterm probably Gordon; SS we have Polanco viable fielding and overall above average hitting ss; Sano at third base not sure what we have could be all star 3rd baseman or total flop if he doesn't figure out how to hit consistently; Catcher we have Castro adequate but still big question if he can come back from injury, and Garver who could become good backup catcher; LF we have Rosario a major league ready player that overall is slightly above average; CF we have Buxton already best defensive center fielder in the game but can he learn to hit in the Major leagues; RF Kepler above average defensive fielding right fielder and could become above average hitting right fielder. Cave 4 outfielder could be above average both fielding and hitting but here again very short sample size for fielder that has struggled to staying with organizations; DH position that still open but could be filled by several of the current players.  This is not team that is poised win it all its a team that could be torn down by August if players have repeat  of next year. The funny thing is that these players have won all way up through baseball until they have reached majors. If they fail this year will it because of the players or is it the organization that has failed to help these players win at this level by overloading them with information and new theories on how to play baseball. I think ownership and business people of Twins are going to be tested this year because the decline of attendance and fans following this club are going to continue to decline. Here again were following Cleveland model even when they been winning they have not had increase in attendance. The new baseball people are ruing the game by making it boring to watch and for ever to get games played in normal amount of time. 

They need to get rules on number pitching changes in game and how positional players are positioned during the game for starters and penalties for teams that are tanking to get better draft picks. These changes would add more offense and teams would go back to caring more positional players than pitchers and finally teams would have to try to win or they would loose their draft picks because of it. If not were going see gradual decline of baseball further and especially with younger generation.

[B Good]

Why were we not in on Jean Segura?  .353 OBP over the past 3 seasons, and would've filled a positional need. 

[Vanimal46]

Why were we not in on Jean Segura? .353 OBP over the past 3 seasons, and would've filled a positional need.

Great question B Good. I'm utterly disappointed in the off-season so far for our Twins.

[bird]

 

None of these guys are going to swing the needle much so why not lose while developing and evaulating the prospects?

 

A two-point response:

 

The prospects ARE being developed and evaluated, and it won't require the MLB team to suck as badly as it would with the likes of Gordon and Rooker flailing away at the plate before they're ready, if they ever are.

 

The right additions, all very doable ones for cash money with no prospect loss, WILL potentially move the needle. Two premium RP's, and maybe Cutch, Lowrie, and possibly Bour.

[bird]

 

Why were we not in on Jean Segura?  .353 OBP over the past 3 seasons, and would've filled a positional need. 

 

 

Can't wait for LaVelle E. Neal's incisive questioning on this. Falvey's sweating bullets.

Edited December 3, 2018 by birdwatcher

[Vanimal46]

Can't wait for LaVelle E. Neal's incisive questioning on this. Falvey's sweating bullets.

He only works part time so he's watching the Chicago Bears. He starts his job again in spring training.

[bird]

 

He only works part time so he's watching the Chicago Bears. He starts his job again in spring training.

 

 

Who's gonna notice?

[Brandon Warne]

 

Why were we not in on Jean Segura?  .353 OBP over the past 3 seasons, and would've filled a positional need. 

 

...because the closest thing the Twins have to Crawford is probably Byron Buxton, and the Twins probably aren't looking at a four-year solution at shortstop. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

...because the closest thing the Twins have to Crawford is probably Byron Buxton, and the Twins probably aren't looking at a four-year solution at shortstop. 

Buxton for Segura. Move Lewis to CF......problem solved. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Mike Sixel

[Brandon Warne]

 

Buxton for Segura. Move Lewis to CF......problem solved. 

 

Hard pass.

[DrNeau]

It was always disappointing when Mauer would work a walk with RISP. How about trying to drive in a run once in awhile? They need to be more aggressive at the plate.

Sure was. We don’t need 1-out surprise bunts, either. Time to wake up the bats.

[djvang]

 

Are you suggesting he swing at balls? Mauer has one of the highest batting averages with RISP in modern MLB history so criticizing him on this front seems off base. 

 

This team ain't lacking for guys who will reach for one and try to drive in a run. 

I'm suggesting he could swing at a pitch that might be 1/4" inch out of the strike zone rather than hope that a lesser hitter drives in the run. His anemic RBI totals show that. Escobar drove in more runs and Garver & Cave drove in almost as many in far fewer AB.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Hard pass.

 

That's a fair stance, but Buxton has 4 years left, and Segura 3. Which one is more likely to be good during that time?

[Brandon Warne]

 

That's a fair stance, but Buxton has 4 years left, and Segura 3. Which one is more likely to be good during that time?

 

I'm not going to commit $60 million, move Lewis off short and sell low on Buxton.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm not going to commit $60 million, move Lewis off short and sell low on Buxton.

 

That wasn't the question, but again, fair answer.......how would you suggest they get better, if you won't commit money for FAs, because that's what the good ones cost? I am assuming you aren't trading off Lewis or Kiriloff either.....

[Danchat]

 

Great question B Good. I'm utterly disappointed in the off-season so far for our Twins.

Really? They've claimed one guy off waivers and several teams have made zero moves thus far. There is a ton of time for things to happen.

 

Oh, and do you remember how Twins Daily's general opinions regarding the offseason have usually gone?

 

2016 Offseason - "They only signed Jason Castro! We're gonna lose 100 games again!"

Result: The Twins were close to clinching a wildcard spot, finished above .500 somehow

 

2017 Offseason - "The Twins failed to sign Yu Darvish and haven't picked up anybody - only the awful Anibal Sanchez ! It's a failure of an offseason!"

Result: Avoiding Darvish was a godsend. Sanchez pitched great for Atlanta... whoops.

 

2017 Spring Training - "We signed Logan Morrison, Addison Reed, and Lance Lynn for cheap! We can win the division this year!" (I'll admit I was on this bandwagon)

Result: All three players were major flops and contributed to a poor season 

 

2018 Nov/Dec - "We shouldn't have claimed C. J. Cron!"

 

 

Do we really have any idea how things are going to play out? I'm at the point where I'm going to expect the opposite of what seems reasonable to us.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Danchat

[USAFChief]

Really? They've claimed one guy off waivers and several teams have made zero moves thus far. There is a ton of time for things to happen.

 

Oh, and do you remember how Twins Daily's general opinions regarding the offseason have usually gone?

 

2016 Offseason - "They only signed Jason Castro! We're gonna lose 100 games again!"

Result: The Twins were close to clinching a wildcard spot, finished above .500 somehow

 

2017 Offseason - "The Twins failed to sign Yu Darvish and haven't picked up anybody - only the awful Anibal Sanchez ! It's a failure of an offseason!"

Result: Avoiding Darvish was a godsend. Sanchez pitched great for Atlanta... whoops.

 

2017 Spring Training - "We signed Logan Morrison, Addison Reed, and Lance Lynn for cheap! We can win the division this year!" (I'll admit I was on this bandwagon)

Result: All three players were major flops and contributed to a poor season

 

2018 Nov/Dec - "We shouldn't have claimed C. J. Cron!"

 

 

Do we really have any idea how things are going to play out? I'm at the point where I'm going to expect the opposite of what seems reasonable to us.

The missing strategy seems to be "signed good help."

[Mike Sixel]

Really? They've claimed one guy off waivers and several teams have made zero moves thus far. There is a ton of time for things to happen.

 

Oh, and do you remember how Twins Daily's general opinions regarding the offseason have usually gone?

 

2016 Offseason - "They only signed Jason Castro! We're gonna lose 100 games again!"

Result: The Twins were close to clinching a wildcard spot, finished above .500 somehow

 

2017 Offseason - "The Twins failed to sign Yu Darvish and haven't picked up anybody - only the awful Anibal Sanchez ! It's a failure of an offseason!"

Result: Avoiding Darvish was a godsend. Sanchez pitched great for Atlanta... whoops.

 

2017 Spring Training - "We signed Logan Morrison, Addison Reed, and Lance Lynn for cheap! We can win the division this year!" (I'll admit I was on this bandwagon)

Result: All three players were major flops and contributed to a poor season

 

2018 Nov/Dec - "We shouldn't have claimed C. J. Cron!"

 

 

Do we really have any idea how things are going to play out? I'm at the point where I'm going to expect the opposite of what seems reasonable to us.

And, here we are again, with no holes filled for all those moves. Because they are all short term, meh, signings.