Article: Pros and Crons: Weighing the Merits of Minnesota's Latest Addition

[Doomtints]

Also, I'm thinking the Rays waived Cron because his defense isn't good, thus making him less valuable. He played half his games last year at DH, so the Rays didn't necessarily trust him out there.

 

The Twins might be bringing him on to be the primary DH, not the primary 1B.

 

Note that Cron is a better hitter when in the DH slot.

 

Thus, the convos around here about Cron's offense are, in my eyes, on the wrong track completely. Cron's problem is his defense, which is particularly problematic on a team with Sano and Polanco also in the infield......

Edited November 28, 2018 by Doomtints

[ashbury]

On Monday, the Minnesota Twins announced that they'd claimed first baseman C.J. Cron off waivers, which is great news because it provided me an opportunity to use the terrible title pun you see above. (Yes, I'm aware Cron's last name isn't actually pronounced like 'con' but LEMME HAVE MY FUN.)

I see that Twinkie Town has an article titled, "Welcome to the Cron Zone."

 

Your headline-fu is weak, Grasshopper.

[Nick Nelson]

Twins and Cron agreed to a deal for $4.8m. 

 

[TheLeviathan]

So....yeah....he's on the roster.  Hopefully we can be done with that avenue of the discussion.

[Nick Nelson]

 

So....yeah....he's on the roster.  Hopefully we can be done with that avenue of the discussion.

Yep. And with that, the Twins restrict themselves from signing someone like Justin Bour, who just became available as a non-tender by Philly. THAT right there is the kind of guy who fits on this roster. Platoon him with Austin at 1B and you could be looking at a 900 OPS from the position, based on their career splits. Plus Bour brings established OBP cred to an offense that is now desperately short on it.

 

Opportunities like this only make it more confounding to me that MN is basically committing to Cron at the outset of the offseason.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yep. And with that, the Twins restrict themselves from signing someone like Justin Bour, who just became available as a non-tender by Philly. THAT right there is the kind of guy who fits on this roster. Platoon him with Austin at 1B and you could be looking at a 900 OPS from the position, based on their career splits. Plus Bour brings established OBP cred to an offense that is now desperately short on it.

 

Opportunities like this only make it more confounding to me that MN is basically committing to Cron at the outset of the offseason.

 

All of this and it shocks me that many posters here seem to think we can somehow roll with Cron and Austin on the same roster.

 

The more time goes by, the more I hate this claim.

[USAFChief]

Yep. And with that, the Twins restrict themselves from signing someone like Justin Bour, who just became available as a non-tender by Philly. THAT right there is the kind of guy who fits on this roster. Platoon him with Austin at 1B and you could be looking at a 900 OPS from the position, based on their career splits. Plus Bour brings established OBP cred to an offense that is now desperately short on it.

 

Opportunities like this only make it more confounding to me that MN is basically committing to Cron at the outset of the offseason.

It’s not “MN.”

 

It’s Levine, or Falvey, that committed. And I think that was pretty much a done deal when they claimed him.

[DocBauer]

Yep. And with that, the Twins restrict themselves from signing someone like Justin Bour, who just became available as a non-tender by Philly. THAT right there is the kind of guy who fits on this roster. Platoon him with Austin at 1B and you could be looking at a 900 OPS from the position, based on their career splits. Plus Bour brings established OBP cred to an offense that is now desperately short on it.

 

Opportunities like this only make it more confounding to me that MN is basically committing to Cron at the outset of the offseason.

I don't dislike the Cron signing. And clearly the FO likes him, and I'm sure Rocco had some advice/input as well. What I do now find frustrating is other options that may be presenting themselves. Of course, at the time of the claim, there was no way to know about any of these other options.

 

But still, did they have to actually sign him? Couldn't they have just offered arbitration and kept their options open for now?

 

Again, I dont dislike Cron. I just hope they got this one right.

[Vanimal46]

All of this and it shocks me that many posters here seem to think we can somehow roll with Cron and Austin on the same roster.

 

The more time goes by, the more I hate this claim.

Didn't take long for the downside that several in this thread said didn't exist to kick in... Austin has to be the casualty now.

[USAFChief]

Didn't take long for the downside that several in this thread said didn't exist to kick in... Austin has to be the casualty now.

I’m guessing Austin stays as the DH.

[tvagle]

 

Yep. And with that, the Twins restrict themselves from signing someone like Justin Bour, who just became available as a non-tender by Philly. THAT right there is the kind of guy who fits on this roster. Platoon him with Austin at 1B and you could be looking at a 900 OPS from the position, based on their career splits. Plus Bour brings established OBP cred to an offense that is now desperately short on it.

 

Opportunities like this only make it more confounding to me that MN is basically committing to Cron at the outset of the offseason.

 

I too believed Bour to be a far better combo-Bob with Austin at 1B/DH and was about to praise the FO for keeping flexible options open by claiming and tendering Tron Cron...alas much like Yorick we know this drill too well

 

Shoulda...Coulda...Woulda This is how we Base-It-All

 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Maybe someone who knows could answer this: assume the Twins decide to tender him an arbitration offer and after the counter-offers etc., it does, indeed, come in at $5 million. Is this guaranteed? For the whole season? If the Twins cut him before spring training? During? After?

they agreed to an approx4 mil contract fully guaranteed. Arbitration is not guaranteed until the season starts. There are pro rated amounts up until that point that are due the player.

 

However there is a payroll target already in place. Any money not spent towards that stays in JP’s pocket. Money put towards that in arb salaries that get cut could get back filled as salary taken on in trade.... but more likely would just go back into JP’s pocket.

 

So from my standpoint, use it or lose it. I’d rather aim higher and let the holes left be filled by the kids.

 

If rolling into ST and the music stops, and the Twins find themselves without a 2b, might as well see what you got in Gordon/Adrianza/Astudillo/Arraez... don’t bother with the million dollar flier on Dozier

[Danchat]

 

I too believed Bour to be a far better combo-Bob with Austin at 1B/DH and was about to praise the FO for keeping flexible options open by claiming and tendering Tron Cron...alas much like Yorick we know this drill too well

 

Shoulda...Coulda...Woulda This is how we Base-It-All

 

That's a fine plan, but I think it's against the rules to send two guys up to the plate at the same time. That could get real dangerous.

[USAFChief]

That's a fine plan, but I think it's against the rules to send two guys up to the plate at the same time. That could get real dangerous.

what do the analytics say?

[tvagle]

A conversation on the last day to claim Cron....

 

Falvey: Rocco what do you think about Cron?

 

Rocco: Derek I'm trying to catch up on the new computer systems but haven't gotten to the chapter on Cron yet

 

Levine: I believe Derek was speaking about CJ, he's switched into human mode, wants to know what you know about Cron as a person? Will he fit in our new culture...Glad to hear you're using the Analytical Playbook we wrote though!

 

Falvey: Oh. The hits just keep on coming!

[whacks Levine in the face with a Analytical Playbook]

 

Levine: Ow! Give it a smell!

 

Falvey: I love our new job.

 

Rocco: You guys could do this every day!

 

Falvey: We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doing business, but we're always open.

 

Levine: That is nicely put.

 

Rocco: Don't you think that's a little weird, a little psycho?

 

Levine: D'you know what I think is psycho, Roc? It's decent teams with money to spend. They make all the calls, talk with agents, ask for contract demands. You know what they hear? They hear "we'll get back to you", "we've got another meeting with New York and will get back to you after that", "are you really in MN in December?"

 

Falvey: YANKEES. Gettin' every guy we want. And if it's not them it's those BoSo's in Boston or LA...now it's even the White Sox......arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgghhh!

 

Levine: And everywhere, everyone thinks the same thing: we should just offer more money...more years more prospects...somedays I just wish someone would just go bill those yucking Fankees.

 

Falvey: Bill 'em all. Admit it Roc, even you've thought about it.

 

Rooco: Bill em? I must have missed that chapter as well....

 

Falvey: Bill them for all the calls, trips, dinners, video montages, scoreboard images

 

Levine: Don't forget the personal anguish and embarrassment we've had to endure with each failed signing

 

Falvey: Yea, that too...we're gonna bill them for everything...it's not fair they get everyone

 

Rocco: You guys should be in every major league city. This is some heavy stuff. This is, like, Lone Ranger heavy, man.

 

Levine: Now Roc... are you sure that you're obee-kaybee?

 

Rocco: I just don't know how you do it...how do you manage to sort through everything and make a decision on who to sign?

 

Falvey: We haven't really figured out a system to decide who.

 

Rocco: Me. I'm the guy. I know everyone. I know their habits, who they hang out with. I got phone numbers, addresses. I know who they're sleeping with, I know where they live. We could sign EVERYONE from Tampa.

 

Levine: So what do you think?

 

Falvey: I'm strangely comfortable with it.

 

Rocco: I'll catch you on the flip side.

[tvagle]

 

That's a fine plan, but I think it's against the rules to send two guys up to the plate at the same time. That could get real dangerous.

what do the analytics say?

 

This is one of many Pace-of-Play discussion points on tap for Winter Meetings:

 

By sending two guys up at once a single AB can more easily generate 2 outs...as proven by adding both players SwingMiss% together and dividing by the pitchers SwingMiss% yielding what until this very moment was impossible but a SuccessfulOut% of 200%

(SM% + SM%) / SW% = 2SW% / SW% = 200%

 

Games will be over in 1/3 less time (do your own math on this)

 

I fully expect the Rays to be the first team to realize that they can get more players in the game by Dual-Hitting (dH) every AB...thus generating 9 extra outs per game

[ewen21]

 

All of this and it shocks me that many posters here seem to think we can somehow roll with Cron and Austin on the same roster.

 

The more time goes by, the more I hate this claim.

I like what Tyler Austin brought last year, but what is he really?   Austin is 26 years old and he finally punched through last year.  Let these two fight it out in ST and let there be some freakin competition for a change.  

 

I look at Cron this way:

He is going to put up better numbers than our first baseman did last year and he costs about 1/5th amount.  Tyler Austin?  He is going to need come into camp spitting nails and that isn't such a bad thing.  

 

The reaction to this Cron deal is over-the-top.  Every team makes pick ups like this every year.  This is not a "Minnesota Twins" thing by any stretch

[ewen21]

 

A conversation on the last day to claim Cron....

 

Falvey: Rocco what do you think about Cron?

 

Rocco: Derek I'm trying to catch up on the new computer systems but haven't gotten to the chapter on Cron yet

 

Levine: I believe Derek was speaking about CJ, he's switched into human mode, wants to know what you know about Cron as a person? Will he fit in our new culture...Glad to hear you're using the Analytical Playbook we wrote though!

 

Falvey: Oh. The hits just keep on coming!

[whacks Levine in the face with a Analytical Playbook]

 

Levine: Ow! Give it a smell!

 

Falvey: I love our new job.

 

Rocco: You guys could do this every day!

 

Falvey: We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doing business, but we're always open.

 

Levine: That is nicely put.

 

Rocco: Don't you think that's a little weird, a little psycho?

 

Levine: D'you know what I think is psycho, Roc? It's decent teams with money to spend. They make all the calls, talk with agents, ask for contract demands. You know what they hear? They hear "we'll get back to you", "we've got another meeting with New York and will get back to you after that", "are you really in MN in December?"

 

Falvey: YANKEES. Gettin' every guy we want. And if it's not them it's those BoSo's in Boston or LA...now it's even the White Sox......arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgghhh!

 

Levine: And everywhere, everyone thinks the same thing: we should just offer more money...more years more prospects...somedays I just wish someone would just go bill those yucking Fankees.

 

Falvey: Bill 'em all. Admit it Roc, even you've thought about it.

 

Rooco: Bill em? I must have missed that chapter as well....

 

Falvey: Bill them for all the calls, trips, dinners, video montages, scoreboard images

 

Levine: Don't forget the personal anguish and embarrassment we've had to endure with each failed signing

 

Falvey: Yea, that too...we're gonna bill them for everything...it's not fair they get everyone

 

Rocco: You guys should be in every major league city. This is some heavy stuff. This is, like, Lone Ranger heavy, man.

 

Levine: Now Roc... are you sure that you're obee-kaybee?

 

Rocco: I just don't know how you do it...how do you manage to sort through everything and make a decision on who to sign?

 

Falvey: We haven't really figured out a system to decide who.

 

Rocco: Me. I'm the guy. I know everyone. I know their habits, who they hang out with. I got phone numbers, addresses. I know who they're sleeping with, I know where they live. We could sign EVERYONE from Tampa.

 

Levine: So what do you think?

 

Falvey: I'm strangely comfortable with it.

 

Rocco: I'll catch you on the flip side.

Summarize what this means in two sentences.

[tvagle]

 

Summarize what this means in two sentences.

 

Twins sign Cron based on Rocco's recommendation

A Boondoggle from the Boondocks

[TheLeviathan]

 

I like what Tyler Austin brought last year, but what is he really?   Austin is 26 years old and he finally punched through last year.  Let these two fight it out in ST and let there be some freakin competition for a change.  

 

I look at Cron this way:

He is going to put up better numbers than our first baseman did last year and he costs about 1/5th amount.  Tyler Austin?  He is going to need come into camp spitting nails and that isn't such a bad thing.  

 

The reaction to this Cron deal is over-the-top.  Every team makes pick ups like this every year.  This is not a "Minnesota Twins" thing by any stretch

 

What is Cron?  A replaceable corner player who has had one year that was pretty good.

 

Austin was roughly what Cron was last year at 1/5 of the price.  Take that 5M and add it to the price you are offering for an infielder or reliever.  

 

Having both Cron and Austin on this 40 man roster is not smart.  Plain and simple.  We're passing on adding better options elsewhere for a mild upgrade at best.  It's the kind of nickel and dime, ill-thought roster construction of the past.  I don't like it.

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I like what Tyler Austin brought last year, but what is he really? Austin is 26 years old and he finally punched through last year. Let these two fight it out in ST and let there be some freakin competition for a change.

 

I look at Cron this way:

He is going to put up better numbers than our first baseman did last year and he costs about 1/5th amount. Tyler Austin? He is going to need come into camp spitting nails and that isn't such a bad thing.

 

The reaction to this Cron deal is over-the-top. Every team makes pick ups like this every year. This is not a "Minnesota Twins" thing by any stretch

They wouldn't have given Cron a guaranteed contract (they didn't have to), if they were going to let him fight it out in ST. Cron is on the roster now, barring injury.

[DocBauer]

I like what Tyler Austin brought last year, but what is he really?   Austin is 26 years old and he finally punched through last year.  Let these two fight it out in ST and let there be some freakin competition for a change.  

 

I look at Cron this way:

He is going to put up better numbers than our first baseman did last year and he costs about 1/5th amount.  Tyler Austin?  He is going to need come into camp spitting nails and that isn't such a bad thing.  

 

The reaction to this Cron deal is over-the-top.  Every team makes pick ups like this every year.  This is not a "Minnesota Twins" thing by any stretch

I agree with your viewpoint. Depth and competition and fighting for a roster spot should always be paramount. I also like what I saw from Austin. I believe in opportunity sometimes bringing out the best in players, along with a change of scenery at times.

 

But just like 2B, there is a hole at 1B. The Twins, probably with input from Rocco, found opportunity and jumped on it. Only time will tell if it was the right move instead of a trade. But Rocco has watched him. His production was solid as a part time player, never exceeding 409 AB until last season. He reportedly tweaked his swing in 2018 to have his best season, with 500+ AB.

 

Is he going to be as good in 2019? Who knows?! And we still have holes to fill! And I want competition, and the best roster we can put together. And even if I like what I've seen from Austin, do we really know what we have in him? The answer is no. If both excel, we have 1B/DH covered, with Austin, hopefully, proving he can play a little OF here and there to increase our lineup flexibility. And neither one of them carries any big salary or long term commitment.

 

Now, work on the BP and the rest of the roster. If you get stagnate or too old school there, then I have a problem!

[Mike Sixel]

When people say competition, what do you mean? Like, how they play in spring games?

[USAFChief]

e (do your own math on this)

 

 

Yeahhhhhh...this right here is where this whole post fell apart.

[ewen21]

 

When people say competition, what do you mean? Like, how they play in spring games?

Compettiion for JOBS.  I am not of the school where a guy like Austin is assured a job. I like what he brought last year, like his game, but understand he is no shoe-in.  There isn't a player on this roster i feel cannot be replaced.  We simply are not that good a team.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think adding Cron and then signing him to a guaranteed contract tells us all exactly what the FO thinks of Austin. Not much. Cron is the RH 1B/DH going into the spring who will is penciled in for 550 ABs. Austin is a guy who will be fighting for the 24th and 25th spot on the roster with Astudillo or injury insurance in AAA if they can get him through.

 

Is Cron an upgrade over Austin? Well, Cron was better last year, they were about the same in 2017 and Cron was better in 2016. Cron has had more ABs, and has a better ttrack record.  From here, it looks like Cron is an upgrade over Austin. Are there bigger upgrades? Not sure I see any in the 1B FA market. Lucas Duda? Nope. Matt Adams? Maybe, but a close call. Hanley Ramirez? Good god, no, the man had a negative WAR last year. Carlos Santana? Meh. Maybe a little better if you want to trade power for OPS, but he'll cost us some prospects and more money. 

 

Getting Cron is not a sexy or exciting move, but the Twins are a better team now than they were before we got him. I say get one more bat (McCutchon or Brantley), a 2B or SS (Iglesias or Starlin Castro) and spend every other dollar on as much pitching as will come to Minnesota.  

 

You'd have 5M more to get bats and pitchers if you didn't spend it minimally upgrading your 1B position. 5M goes a long way with an infielder or reliever.

[jorgenswest]

Austin is a good hitter against left handed pitching. Is there anything else?

 

That skill would fit really well with a left handed hitting 1B. With the right handed bats of Cron and Garver I don’t see the fit.

 

My concern is that the Twins will not look for another bat and they really need a left handed bat for the middle of the line up. They don’t need Austin unless he is better than Cron. They certainly can’t afford to give a bench spot to a DH in the short side of the platoon.

[Riverbrian]

 

Austin is a good hitter against left handed pitching. Is there anything else?

That skill would fit really well with a left handed hitting 1B. With the right handed bats of Cron and Garver I don’t see the fit.

My concern is that the Twins will not look for another bat and they really need a left handed bat for the middle of the line up. They don’t need Austin unless he is better than Cron. They certainly can’t afford to give a bench spot to a DH in the short side of the platoon.

 

Each roster spot needs to be treated like Gold. A contending team can't afford to hide Rule 5's and they can't afford to absorb the same position. Each signing is one roster spot less to sign someone else. 

 

If Cron for Austin is indeed the swap they just made. The front office better be right about this. 

 

They paid 5 million and gave up years of control to place a bet against Tyler Austin. 

 

The reason Cron and Bour and other unmovable 1B types are being non-tendered during arbitration is because there are guys like Tyler Austin available. 

[Doomtints]

Cron is poor at defense in an infield that is already lacking. He will probably be the primary DH. This is fine, he can hit well.

 

Austin is still on the table at 1B, as are other options.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Doomtints

[TheLeviathan]

 

Cron is poor at defense in an infield that is already lacking. He will probably be the primary DH. This is fine, he can hit well.

 

Austin is still on the table at 1B, as are other options.

 

If Austin and Cron are on the roster I predict a disappointing season for the Twins.  Carrying two guys that can barely play 1B is unwise.