Article: Pros and Crons: Weighing the Merits of Minnesota's Latest Addition

[Vanimal46]

Well it seems like every move is met with anger these days. This is a molehill not a mountain, the frustration seems out of place when it's on something this small. And I understand why there is frustration overall, I feel it too.

I will be thrilled and praise the FO the minute they acquire someone who's significantly better than what's already on roster.

[Mike Sixel]

I will be thrilled and praise the FO the minute they acquire someone who's significantly better than what's already on roster.

Especially if said player is signed for more than a year or two..... Like, an actual long term asset.

[Winston Smith]

 

Since May, I have been talking about the need for flexibility. 

 

First move of the off-season was the exact opposite. 

Have you tried yoga?

[jtkoupal]

This could shape up to be a battle in spring training. The only thing I can think of is that Sanó stays at third while Austin and Cron get 1B & DH (in some order).

 

However, given that Sanó looks more like a 1B/DH type than a 3B at this point, it's hard to imagine a scenario that includes both Cron and Austin next year.

 

I guess it's not our job to make these decisions, and Falvine has a better idea of what they're doing than we do. Time will tell

[RatherBeGolfing]

 

This could shape up to be a battle in spring training. The only thing I can think of is that Sanó stays at third while Austin and Cron get 1B & DH (in some order).

 

However, given that Sanó looks more like a 1B/DH type than a 3B at this point, it's hard to imagine a scenario that includes both Cron and Austin next year.

 

I guess it's not our job to make these decisions, and Falvine has a better idea of what they're doing than we do. Time will tell

 

This is exactly what it signals, that they are planning on rolling with Sano at 3B to start... 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I will be thrilled and praise the FO the minute they acquire someone who's significantly better than what's already on roster.

 

Yup, this.  It isn't anger, it's bewilderment.

[nicksaviking]

 

I will be thrilled and praise the FO the minute they acquire someone who's significantly better than what's already on roster.

 

That's great, I don't think this move has bearing on doing that though. Other than a trade for one year of Paul Goldschmidt, getting a new 1B wasn't going to meet that criteria this year, there just aren't any good ones out there. There are hardly any good 1B league wide anymore.

[Vanimal46]

That's great, I don't think this move has bearing on doing that though. Other than a trade for one year of Paul Goldschmidt, getting a new 1B wasn't going to meet that criteria this year, there just aren't any good ones out there. There are hardly any good 1B league wide anymore.

 

Agreed. I don't think they needed to acquire a 1B at all. Especially someone who's out of options. It's one of the easiest spots on the field to fill. Why is it necessary to dedicate 2 players (both out of options) to the easiest spot on the field to fill?

 

We're living in a world of 3 man benches. If both make the team, they're settling for a 2 man bench on days when Austin or Cron need a day off in the field. It's a poor use of limited roster spots.

[Shaitan]

 

Did the Twins create customized "Welcome to MN" graphics when they claimed Michael Reed? 

 

I get what you're saying -- this move isn't permanent by any stretch -- but suggesting it's the equivalent to claiming some random AAAA waiver-wire fodder is inaccurate. I feel quite confident that the Twins are planning on carrying Cron in 2019 unless something else comes up.

This is interesting, but irrelevant. The graphic design team doesn't write the lineup cards.

 

This is just marketing to drum up some excitement (or discussion) during the offseason.

 

And I don't disagree with your latter statement, but you put the catch in your own response too ("unless something else comes up").

Edited November 27, 2018 by Shaitan

[nicksaviking]

 

Agreed. I don't think they needed to acquire a 1B at all. Especially someone who's out of options. It's one of the easiest spots on the field to fill. Why is it necessary to dedicate 2 players (both out of options) to the easiest spot on the field to fill?

We're living in a world of 3 man benches. If both make the team, they're settling for a 2 man bench on days when Austin or Cron need a day off in the field. It's a poor use of limited roster spots.

 

I wouldn't expect Austin and Cron to both make the roster, unless Kepler was dealt in which case Austin may get more time in RF. If Austin is the odd man out between him and Cron, I'd imagine he'd get traded since he most likely would get claimed on the waiver wire. I might rather have Austin over Cron in a vacuum, but if Austin can fetch another player or is part or a larger trade, I'd be interested in additional off season transactions. Anyway, I'd think the redundancy is indication that more action is likely, not less.

 

My 1B preference since the end of last season has been a Sano/Kepler/Austin/Garver rotation, though I knew that was unlikely. Got to have a full-time 1B I guess.

[jtkoupal]

 

This is exactly what it signals, that they are planning on rolling with Sano at 3B to start... 

Which wouldn't be the end of the world if he has made a commitment to getting better this offseason. I have no information as to what Sanó has been doing with his time. If he has made a commitment to improvement, he will be fine over at 3B. He has the arm and, if he has trimmed down a bit, his range could at least be adequate.

 

If he has made a commitment to the couch, he probably won't succeed anywhere on the diamond. I guess we will find out more in late February as to what he has been doing with his offseason.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I wouldn't expect Austin and Cron to both make the roster, unless Kepler was dealt in which case Austin may get more time in RF. If Austin is the odd man out between him and Cron, I'd imagine he'd get traded since he most likely would get claimed on the waiver wire. I might rather have Austin over Cron in a vacuum, but if Austin can fetch another player or is part or a larger trade, I'd be interested in additional off season transactions. Anyway, I'd think the redundancy is indication that more action is likely, not less.

 

My 1B preference since the end of last season has been a Sano/Kepler/Austin/Garver rotation, though I knew that was unlikely. Got to have a full-time 1B I guess.

 

We shared a preference.......with Garver's concussion history, I'd have made him nearly the full time 1B.....you know, so he doesn't end up with brain issues, and can have a long, healthy, life and career. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

This could shape up to be a battle in spring training. The only thing I can think of is that Sanó stays at third while Austin and Cron get 1B & DH (in some order).

 

However, given that Sanó looks more like a 1B/DH type than a 3B at this point, it's hard to imagine a scenario that includes both Cron and Austin next year.

 

I guess it's not our job to make these decisions, and Falvine has a better idea of what they're doing than we do. Time will tell

 

I really hope they aren't using ST to make decisions on this kind of thing. That's not a good use of sample sizes, among other problems. 

[ChrisKnutson]

I was so sure we we’re gonna trade for Carlos Santana, sooo much for that....

 

I’m my eyes, only way they could possibly redeem this move is if they somehow convince Lowrie to leave Oakland.

[Number3]

This simply looks like a "why not?" to me. Kind of like grabbing something at a flee market not knowing whether you will ever use it or not. Twins should use 2019 to give their young talent a chance with a new manager to boot with no expectations whatsoever. Just take the field and see what happens. No long term big contracts please until Sano, Buxton, Kepler are given one more chance to prove themselves and maybe even give a recent # overall pick a chance to actually play in the major leagues. Players like Cron can't hurt, they can only help.

[nicksaviking]

 

We shared a preference.......with Garver's concussion history, I'd have made him nearly the full time 1B.....you know, so he doesn't end up with brain issues, and can have a long, healthy, life and career. 

 

Garver at catcher has grown on me, probably due to that nice outburst in the 2nd half. But if he needs to go to 1B for health reasons I'd hope it's accepted by everyone.

[gunnarthor]

 

Garver at catcher has grown on me, probably due to that nice outburst in the 2nd half. But if he needs to go to 1B for health reasons I'd hope it's accepted by everyone.

I don't think he has the bat for first.

[nicksaviking]

 

I was so sure we we’re gonna trade for Carlos Santana, sooo much for that....

I’m my eyes, only way they could possibly redeem this move is if they somehow convince Lowrie to leave Oakland.

 

I would guess Santana isn't going to happen, but the Twins can re-waive Cron pretty easily. Claiming Cron with the apparent intention of getting a full time 1B for 2019 sure would undermine any demands Philadelphia makes for Santana from the Twins.  

[Mike Sixel]

Ersatz Logan Morrison
2:45 What are your thoughts on the Twins picking up a second Rays first baseman?
Meg Rowley
2:46 That if present LoMo and possibly future LoMo are ever in the same room together, it could rip a hole in space time?
Cron's 2018 was promising. There's limited upside there, but he's also likely an upgrade on their existing options and isn't very pricey.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/meg-rowley-fangraphs-chat-11-27-18/

[bird]

 

If the twins have a fifty million dollar spending budget, five of that is gone. Do people think they'll go over, and then cut Cron? Or, do you think that money is now spent and not not available?

 

Yep.

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't think he has the bat for first.

 

Historically no, but his .749 OPS would have placed him 16th out of qualified 1B last year. It's not a strong position any more. Or maybe just at this moment.

 

I would argue for the Twins to find an upgrade over that kind of production, but I don't think it should stop Garver from finding a job somewhere.

[gunnarthor]

 

Historically no, but his .749 OPS would have placed him 16th out of qualified 1B last year. It's not a strong position any more. Or maybe just at this moment.

I sorta assume it's a moment thing but you're right, maybe the new baseball doesn't require a Giambi-type first baseman anymore.

 

But I'm going to hope he can stay healthy and stick behind the plate.

[TheLeviathan]

"Limited upside" says it all.

[John Miller]

What I'm trying to figure out is why people are saying that this could hamstring the Twins from signing a better player down the line. That's not the case at all. The team has about 55-60 million to spend in FA to get to last years total payroll. They aren't on the hook for really much at all unless he makes the team. If the team wants a few high priced free agents, they will go get them. Money is really not a problem and $5 million is practically nothing.

[Mike Sixel]

 

What I'm trying to figure out is why people are saying that this could hamstring the Twins from signing a better player down the line. That's not the case at all. The team has about 55-60 million to spend in FA to get to last years total payroll. They aren't on the hook for really much at all unless he makes the team. If the team wants a few high priced free agents, they will go get them. Money is really not a problem and $5 million is practically nothing.

 

I'll try to explain my thoughts.

 

1. That is 10-15% of the FA budget. That's not an insignificant number.

2. They can cut him during the time they are signing FAs, but that seems really, really, unlikely to me.

3. If they have 45MM left, and a good SP costs 20MM a year, that leaves 25MM. Now you need two RPs, that's another 15-20MM, and a 2B, and an OF and maybe a backup #B. You are out of money before you even get to 2B or OF, unless you want to spend a lot less on players, in which case, it is harder to get real impact.

4. I don't believe they have any where near 60MM to spend.

[John Miller]

 

I'll try to explain my thoughts.

 

1. That is 10-15% of the FA budget. That's not an insignificant number.

2. They can cut him during the time they are signing FAs, but that seems really, really, unlikely to me.

3. If they have 45MM left, and a good SP costs 20MM a year, that leaves 25MM. Now you need two RPs, that's another 15-20MM, and a 2B, and an OF and maybe a backup #B. You are out of money before you even get to 2B or OF, unless you want to spend a lot less on players, in which case, it is harder to get real impact.

4. I don't believe they have any where near 60MM to spend.

If you don't get Corbin, no SP is really worth 20 million. There are lots of good second baseman out there. So say Eovaldi costs 16-18 million a year. Lets say LeMahieu costs 10-12 that's 30. If you don't get him, someone else will be cheaper. The Twins don't need an OF so I don't see where you got that from. So you still have about 15 million or more to spend in relievers, you can get a good one of those for 8-10 million if you aren't getting Familia. Then another 5 on another one. Plenty of money to be thrown around. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Miller1234

[ashbury]

What I'm trying to figure out is why people are saying that this could hamstring the Twins from signing a better player down the line. That's not the case at all. The team has about 55-60 million to spend in FA to get to last years total payroll. They aren't on the hook for really much at all unless he makes the team. If the team wants a few high priced free agents, they will go get them. Money is really not a problem and $5 million is practically nothing.

They aren't going to get to last year's payroll. They will say revenue is down, they will adjust payroll accordingly.

 

That aside, my concern is that whatever payroll headroom currently exists will be frittered away $5M at a time on players whose ceiling is league-average at best. Each move will be justified by price-performance; at no point will performance by itself be the priority. And thus we end up with a roster that aspires to .500.

 

That was what frustrated me with the previous FO too.

 

Paying the same eventual aggregate sum for a smaller number of actual difference-makers, and relying on the young players making up the rest of the roster to step up, seems like the better chance for excellence if we want to contend.

 

CJ Cron achieved a career year in 2018. It resulted in only about league-average performance, so he needs to take an additional step like that to become a real asset. $4 or $5M would be about a league-average salary (25 players, $100M or so). Everything about this waiver claim is in alignment. It's just... such low aspirations.

[Doomtints]

He is a bargain for the price point regardless of the cons. There is no way he would have slipped through waivers. The Twins got lucky here if he simply performs at his career levels. If he continues his growth, this was a steal.

 

I bet if we look at some Rays forums, we will find a few "wtf!" comments.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Doomtints

[ahart10]

I don’t understand the interest in Santana. He’s old, expensive, dh only, barely league average, and requires a trade.

[nicksaviking]

 

They aren't going to get to last year's payroll. They will say revenue is down, they will adjust payroll accordingly.

 

That aside, my concern is that whatever payroll headroom currently exists will be frittered away $5M at a time on players whose ceiling is league-average at best. Each move will be justified by price-performance; at no point will performance by itself be the priority. And thus we end up with a roster that aspires to .500.

 

That was what frustrated me with the previous FO too.

 

Paying the same eventual aggregate sum for a smaller number of actual difference-makers, and relying on the young players making up the rest of the roster to step up, seems like the better chance for excellence if we want to contend.

 

CJ Cron achieved a career year in 2018. It resulted in only about league-average performance, so he needs to take an additional step like that to become a real asset. $4 or $5M would be about a league-average salary (25 players, $100M or so). Everything about this waiver claim is in alignment. It's just... such low aspirations.

 

I don't want the nickle and dime approach anymore either. I want quality over quantity. I'm still filing this one under a waiver claim though, not a free agency spend, there's still no commitment here at this point of the year. And if Grossman is waived, that's going to pretty much negate this salary.

 

If Grossman and Cron are both on this team in April I'll be leading the pitchfork brigade. Also I should clarify, in the bullpen I want quality AND quantity; it's currently just such a black hole.