Article: Pros and Crons: Weighing the Merits of Minnesota's Latest Addition

[Mr. Brooks]

If Austin and Cron are on the roster I predict a disappointing season for the Twins. Carrying two guys that can barely play 1B is unwise.

Tyler Austin is just fine at 1B, defensively.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Tyler Austin is just fine at 1B, defensively.

 

Sure and that's why I'm fine having one of him on the roster.   I don't get spending 5M for his maybe better clone.

[Mr. Brooks]

Sure and that's why I'm fine having one of him on the roster. I don't get spending 5M for his maybe better clone.

If Austin is the everyday first baseman, then you still need a DH.

[TheLeviathan]

 

If Austin is the everyday first baseman, then you still need a DH.

 

Is there a rule the DH has to be a subpar 1B?

 

Otherwise this roster would seem to be far better off with a guy who can play OF or 1B/3B.

[Mr. Brooks]

Is there a rule the DH has to be a subpar 1B?

 

Otherwise this roster would seem to be far better off with a guy who can play OF or 1B/3B.

Wouldn't someone who can play 3B or OF kind of be wasted at DH?

DH is a position in the AL. I prefer it to be treated as such, rather than just a place to rotate your other position players through.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Wouldn't someone who can play 3B or OF kind of be wasted at DH?
DH is a position in the AL. I prefer it to be treated as such, rather than just a place to rotate your other position players through.

 

I have no earthly idea why you think it would be "wasted" to use one of a precious few roster spots on a guy that might be able to play more than 1B.

[Mr. Brooks]

I have no earthly idea why you think it would be "wasted" to use one of a precious few roster spots on a guy that might be able to play more than 1B.

What I mean, is if a player is capable of playing 3B or OF, why is he playing DH, why isn't he playing 3B or OF?

Playing Buxton at 1B would be wasting part of his skill set, as would playing a third baseman or outfielder at DH.

If the FO wants a full time DH, rather than a rotation, then why does it matter what other positions he can play?

[TheLeviathan]

 

What I mean, is if a player is capable of playing 3B or OF, why is he playing DH, why isn't he playing 3B or OF?
Playing Buxton at 1B would be wasting part of his skill set, as would playing a third baseman or outfielder at DH.
If the FO wants a full time DH, rather than a rotation, then why does it matter what other positions he can play?

 

Having a full time DH and 1B that play the same position will make this roster much less durable against injury/ineffectiveness/ or other issues.  Having a guy you feel comfortable playing at DH and non-1B positions insures you against any number of disasters that could harm the team.  

 

Especially in an era where most benches are 3 players deep.

Edited December 2, 2018 by TheLeviathan

[Mr. Brooks]

Having a full time DH and 1B that play the same position will make this roster much less durable against injury/ineffectiveness/ or other issues. Having a guy you feel comfortable playing at DH and non-1B positions insures you against any number of disasters that could harm the team.

 

Especially in an era where most benches are 3 players deep.

I get that. But, you are probably sacrificing at least some bat if you play an outfielder at DH, so you are paying something for that insurance against injury.

[Riverbrian]

 

What I mean, is if a player is capable of playing 3B or OF, why is he playing DH, why isn't he playing 3B or OF?
Playing Buxton at 1B would be wasting part of his skill set, as would playing a third baseman or outfielder at DH.
If the FO wants a full time DH, rather than a rotation, then why does it matter what other positions he can play?

 

It's basically what we did last year. Mauer and Morrison could only play 1B... One was the 1B and one was the DH and they played almost every day. Sure... they could do that again. 

 

I'm not going to be investing as much time watching them this summer though. Because over investing in a defensive position that almost anyone can play basically guarantees that you will have players getting lots of AB's that you don't want getting that many AB's. 

 

I'll call it now. 

 

If the Twins start opening day with Austin at 1B and Cron at DH and if that is the plan for 2019. If those two man those positions exclusively like they did with Mauer and Morrison last year and if they can't play anywhere else.  

 

I'll make a wager that Adrianaza will get over 300 AB's. Because he is now the only one who can backup 3B, SS, 2B.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

I get that. But, you are probably sacrificing at least some bat if you play an outfielder at DH, so you are paying something for that insurance against injury.

 

This might be a valid argument if Cron was something more than he is.  He's a "meh" hitter for his position and comes with no defensive attributes to help this roster. 

 

Having Austin and Cron as the plan for 1B/DH is a recipe for disaster.

[Mr. Brooks]

This might be a valid argument if Cron was something more than he is. He's a "meh" hitter for his position and comes with no defensive attributes to help this roster.

 

Having Austin and Cron as the plan for 1B/DH is a recipe for disaster.

What would an .816 OPS from a guy that can play 3B cost on the open market? A lot more than $4.8 million. If you want a guy with 3B/1B/DH/OF flexibility for 4.8 million, you are probably looking at a 60 point OPS loss.

 

The FO clearly thinks he made adjustments that make his .816 OPS sustainable, or they wouldn't have guaranteed him a contract.

[TheLeviathan]

 

What would an .816 OPS from a guy that can play 3B cost on the open market? A lot more than $4.8 million. If you want a guy with 3B/1B/DH/OF flexibility for 4.8 million, you are probably looking at a 60 point OPS loss.

The FO clearly thinks he made adjustments that make his .816 OPS sustainable, or they wouldn't have guaranteed him a contract.

 

Having two 1B-only on the roster is a mistake.  One we've endured often enough.

 

We have money to spend.  DH/OF is not the spot to be penny pinching.

[jorgenswest]

The problem with Austin at DH or 1B is that there is little evidence that he will be a plus bat against right handed pitching. His strike out walk rates vs righties in the minors are not encouraging nor is his performance against right handed pitching in the majors.

 

His best fit was as the short side of a platoon at 1B with the Twins bringing in a left handed bat for 1B.

 

With the acquisition of Cron the Twins still need a good left handed bat for the middle of the line up against right handed pitching. If they go out and sign that left handed bat and he is limited to 1B, I don’t see how they roster three players who can only play 1B.

 

Cron didn’t fill any holes. He is an upgrade over Austin. The Twins still need to fill that hole in the middle of the lineup against right handed pitching.

[nicksaviking]

The team still has Rosario, Kepler, Polanco and Cave batting lefty and Rosario and Polanco probably will bat toward the top of the lineup, Kepler and Cave may do so as well, depending on how the roster is constructed. 

 

I actually prefer a righty-heavy lineup when possible at Target Field, so instead of monkeying with various 1B free agents, I'd rather the team find a good RH corner outfield bat that can allow Kepler to be the LH platoon role; outfield and 1B. I'd be interested in one of the Mariners salary dump packages to get Mitch Hanigar, and Andrew McCutchen works too.

[TheLeviathan]

I agree, DH/1B doesn't have to be a lefty.  I'd just like a player much more accomplished than Cron.

 

Certainly I'd have preferred a much higher delta between Cron and Austin to warrant 5M and a spot on the roster.

[ashbury]

I agree, DH/1B doesn't have to be a lefty.  I'd just like a player much more accomplished than Cron.

 

Certainly I'd have preferred a much higher delta between Cron and Austin to warrant 5M and a spot on the roster.

I'm glad that our FO isn't choosing Tyler Austin as the hill they want to die on, but that Lance Lynn signing is looking worse by the month. Austin plus a low-minors fifth-starter type pitcher is looking like merely salary relief for the remainder of Lynn's 2018 salary, and since payroll savings don't carry over to future seasons there's no net benefit except two dispensable players.

[jorgenswest]

Giving a Lance Lynn type a one year 12 million dollar deal is something they should do every year. I think it will be a plus more often than a loss and the loss is minimal on a one year deal.

 

Austin has a really narrow set of skills where he helps. He really hits lefties well. My plan this spring would be to see if he can play RF near a Grossman level. With Buxton the Twins can afford to have one corner with limited range. That allows them to sit Kepler or Rosario against a lefty.

 

If he can’t play OF it is really unlikely he can make a career as the short side of a 1B or DH platoon. The Twins can designate him at the start of the season when all teams are facing a roster crunch. His lack of position is going to make him very difficult to roster for other teams. He may stick and provide depth in AAA.

 

The other hope is that his pitch recognition skill against right handed pitching makes tremendous improvement. That should be a hope and not something the Twins count on. They need to add that left handed bat this winter.

[DocBauer]

The team still has Rosario, Kepler, Polanco and Cave batting lefty and Rosario and Polanco probably will bat toward the top of the lineup, Kepler and Cave may do so as well, depending on how the roster is constructed. 

 

I actually prefer a righty-heavy lineup when possible at Target Field, so instead of monkeying with various 1B free agents, I'd rather the team find a good RH corner outfield bat that can allow Kepler to be the LH platoon role; outfield and 1B. I'd be interested in one of the Mariners salary dump packages to get Mitch Hanigar, and Andrew McCutchen works too.

My drum is going to wear out from banging it so hard! Lol

 

Yes to McCutchen!

 

The guy hits, gets OB, provides power, and can still play a quality corner OF spot. He could be very dangerous in the #1 spot, leading off games, or driving in the bottom of the order, which I see as potentially pretty solid/interesting. He could also hit 3-5, just depending how the lineup gets constructed.

 

You and I differ somewhat on Kepler, and that's OK. You ask why everyone likes him so much over Cave. I don't think its a preference. We've seen Kepler longer, seen his defense, seen his potential. If Kepler and Cave both touched their ceiling, IMO, Kepler is the better player. And I like Cave! I think we got a steal there!

 

While retrospect might dictate Bour as being a perfect addition/compliment, Cron was available days earlier. Unless the FO had some insider information ahead of time, they couldn't know Bour would be available. So there is a hole at 1B. A 28yo 1B with OK numbers but never more than 409 AB has a breakout season in 2018 with a change in his swing/approach and over 500AB for the first time. Oh, your new manager is also familiar with him. And while Austin appears to be a potential late bloomer with real power, and a quality milb track record, he is still an unknown.

 

Kepler can play all 3 OF spots and has played 1B some in the minors. He is more than athletic enough to put a 1B glove back on, whether his offense final explodes in 2019, or 2020, or he remains what he is...a nice role player. But I'd give Cave a 1B mitt as well and take a look-see. Kepler is mostly mentioned because he's done it in the minors. For that matter, I still say Austin should be given a look-see in the OF again. (Neck, considering he played 2B for a while in the minors, is very athletic, and made a tremendous play at 3B last season, I'd look at Rosario as possible infield option, even for emergencies).

 

Guys slump and get hurt. Guys can be demoted or traded. If Rocco and the FO honestly can't find a way to play Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, McCutchen, Cave, Cron and Austin between 3 OF spots, 1B and DH, I think they lack imagination.