Article: Twins Claim 1B CJ Cron

[Shaitan]

 

4M and a roster spot certainly could be downside.

 

I feel like we already have CJ Cron at an eighth of the price in Austin.  This....makes no sense to me.  I hope it works out, but I don't like this as a starting point for the offseason.

 

Picking somebody up on the waiver wire in November is pretty far from guaranteeing them a roster spot. If another player comes along, they cut bait and move on.

[TheLeviathan]

 

You're penciling Austin in for 30 HRs and a OPS north of .800 OPS?  If Austin produces during ST, I'm pretty sure we can still cut ties with Cron.  And we do have holes at both 1b/DH; so we may need both in the lineup, unless you're counting on Grossman, whom I think is real roster casualty.

 

I'm not penciling either of them into 30 HRs and an OPS north of .800.  Given the same number of at-bats, I think the two will have roughly similar numbers.  Which I'd put closer to .775 and 25 bombs. 

 

If either Austin or Cron could play other positions....fine.  But as they are, these two feel entirely redundant.  And if they're redundant - I'd rather keep the younger, cheaper one.

[nater79a]

 

So, which two minor leaguers will the Twins get for him in August?

 

Oh, I dunno, I would guess Vlad Jr and Bo Bichette from the Jays.  

 

[jorgenswest]

I don’t think Austin is an option against right handed pitching. His strike out rates against righties through the minors and majors does not project well. I think he will be very good against lefties. Ideally the Twins would have found someone to take the that half of the platoon.

 

Cron is better against right handed pitching but it would be nice to have a left handed bat that could play 1B while sitting him a few times a week. He isn’t someone you want in the middle of the line up against right handed pitching.

 

Cron is likely an upgrade over Austin. If this move means the Twins stop looking for a bat to replace Mauer, I am disappointed.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I'm not penciling either of them into 30 HRs and an OPS north of .800.  Given the same number of at-bats, I think the two will have roughly similar numbers.  Which I'd put closer to .775 and 25 bombs. 

 

If either Austin or Cron could play other positions....fine.  But as they are, these two feel entirely redundant.  And if they're redundant - I'd rather keep the younger, cheaper one.

Did you see the splits?   Cron has a track record; Austin just doesn't.  That should matter.   (And Cron is hardly expensive). 

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

 

How can I comment intelligently.  I know what I hope, I do not know what I expect.  Obviously Austin did not impress enough to grab the position.  But Cron has a one year resume so who knows.  Both are cheap in baseball numbers so let them fight it out.  We know one will be 1B.  Now lets concentrate on the really big needs - SS!  CF! SP! AND RP!.  I am waiting. 

Is this a requirement?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Did you see the splits?   Cron has a track record; Austin just doesn't.  That should matter.   (And Cron is hardly expensive). 

 

4-5M is considerably more than the minimum.  And Cron does not have a track record of 30 and .800.  In fact, his track record looks a lot like what Austin did last year.

[DocBauer]

Every dollar counts with this small market team! Just ask Jim Pohlad, who doesn't FEEL like it's necessary to spend $23 million just because Mauer's contract is off the books.

NOT going hijack the thread, just wanted to make a comment about your comment concerning Pohlad's comment. (Whew!) I actually agree with the premise of Pohlad's comment at it's core. Just because the money is there and available doesn't mean you HAVE to spend it. You can, hopefully, make some smart additions. You can make trades. You still some young guys who have to play daily, and a few more on their way...hopefully knocking on the door soon...and you have future trades, maybe even mid-season 2019, and possible extensions.

 

We honestly don't know yet how much the payroll will be, or what moves they will make. It's just way too early. What I object to is the flippancy of his answer with zero clarification. He may be a very intelligent individual, but he makes some very strange comments at times.

[PseudoSABR]

 

4-5M is considerably more than the minimum.  And Cron does not have a track record of 30 and .800.  In fact, his track record looks a lot like what Austin did last year.

1) No one was arguing that 5 million is more than the minimum. But 5mil for .800 OPS is affordable even from a 1b/DH.

 

2) Cron has actually posted a season of 30/.800. Austin doesn't have that. If you're unwilling to predict a repeat for Cron, upon what basis do you predict Austin will be equal to Cron? Projection? Small-sample size?

 

3) The splits suggest the two players could compliment each other despite the same-handedness. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by PseudoSABR

[DocBauer]

Yes that's another thing I don't understand about this pick-up. Although Rooker does have a tiny bit more flexibility to play the outfield* 

 

*not sure how good he actually is at either position

And I'm not sure about Rooker's OF potential either. I read reports that say he doesn't look good, and then I read a personal account...was it BobSacramento??...that states he looks like a natural athlete. So I admit I'm confused.

 

I guess I've always seen him as a primary DH who could also play 1B and some OF with Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Cave, Khirilloff being more the mainstay position players.

 

Either way, I get potential and being drafted and signed as a college senior, but Rooker has a year and a half of professional ball. I fully expect him to do what he did last season, which is take a little time to adjust to AAA ball and then take pretty good. But I've never counted on him to begin 2019 with the Twins.

[DocBauer]

I am fine with the move provided the Twins keep Grossman and Austin for the time being and do more to improve the team.  

 

Grossman has a 3 year track record of .360+ OBP which we can really use especially now that Mauer retired.  

 

Also I do hope the Twins sign someone like Cruz to DH.  a good 1 or 2 year deal or best yet a 1 year deal with a 1 year option that becomes guaranteed with 400 or 500 ABs give or take.  

 

If the Twins want to win on the cheap then beefing up the power department is the way to go.

 

Partially agree.

 

ONLY talking position players now, unless they have decided they don't like Austin, (doubt that is the case), I don't want a DH. I consider 1B to be settled, with Sano, Garver and Kepler all options to fill in if and where necessary. Further, you have options at DH with Austin and Cron, as well as half days off for others. What I would like to see is a big time OF FA signing like McCutchen or Brantley.

 

What? But we already have Rosario, Buxton, Kepler and Cave. Where is the room? 3 OF spots, 1B, DH, PH, injuries and even slumps. Assemble the most talent you can, see how things play out, and let Baldelli figure out who plays, where and when.

[jorgenswest]

If really like the move if a left handed DH/1B is added. Austin is spring training insurance and late DFA when other teams are also facing a roster crunch. He will be hard to roster.

 

The Twins have an inexpensive upgrade for Austin’s roster slot. This does not fill one of the holes on the roster. Now they need to upgrade Grossman’s spot.

[USAFChief]

Maybe the idea is a Cron/Austin/Kepler/Cave grouping at 1B/DH/RF? That would leave one as a bench bat every game. It would also mean that Sano has to play 3B most of the time, not DH, but I think that's the way this FO wants it to be next year to see if Sano can be an every day 3B.

 

Bottom line, there's not a lot to dislike about this move unless it prevents us from making a better one where we really have the opportunity. Opportunity means more than just someone we want and budget flexibiliity, it means someone who wants to or is at least willing to come to the Twins. I think there are fewer guys who want to do that than we may like to admit or imagine. Unfortunately, the Twins are a much less than prime destination at the moment - not a big or sexy market with endorsement opportunities, playing in snow in April, and a less than stellar recent track record. Not exactly a plum destination.

 

FWIW, I'd rather have Cron than Nelson Cruz. Cruz is 39 or is it 39? Or 49?), can't play in the field, and is much more likely to declline than improve where Cron is the reverse. I don't see Cron instead of Ctuz as much of a lost opportunity.

I'd wager a lot of money on Cruz out hitting Cron in 2019.

[DocBauer]

Giving Austin a scholarship isn't the way I look at it. 

 

He showed some potential and he's out of options. When they are out of options you have to give them a roster spot or let them go, Austin intrigued me enough that I don't want to let him go to end up being a Voit type player for someone else. I'd like to see what he could do with 500 AB's. He's got 40 HR power with 500 AB's in my opinion. 

 

I feel the same way about Cron as I did when they signed Morrison last year... I was OK with it because I like it when the try to upgrade even at small increments but I mentioned when he was signed that he better be better than Vargas (I've always irrationally liked Vargas) because Vargas would be paid the minimum and Morrison got 6M. 

 

Same thing between Cron and Austin... He better be better than Austin if Austin is a causality of the move. 

 

It's not a scholarship thing... It's an option thing... losing him thing.

 

Assuming the Cron we get, and Baldelli is familiar with, is approximately the player he was last year, (age and 500AB vs previous seasons indicate he could be), he and Austin could be dangerous as 6-7 hitters, even sacrificing some contact and OB. Could be even more effective if spaced apart from one anotber.

[jkcarew]

Would you really have both Austin and Cron on a 25-man at the same time? It’s pretty hard to imagine that as a good thing, IMO. Maybe simply not love at first sight with the FO for Austin...and this is another potential option.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I'd wager a lot of money on Cruz out hitting Cron in 2019.

But enough to justify Cruz's outsized cost?  That's the real question.

Edited November 27, 2018 by PseudoSABR

[Vanimal46]

Would you really have both Austin and Cron on a 25-man at the same time? It’s pretty hard to imagine that as a good thing, IMO. Maybe simply not love at first sight with the FO for Austin...and this is another potential option.

If Cron or Austin takes up one of the three possible bench spots.... Well, maybe TR was on to something with Park, Mauer, and Vargas on the same roster in 2016.

[Vanimal46]

By enough to justify Cruz's outsized cost? That's the real question.

Impossible to say until the Twins use the theoretical "savings" to sign another player. If they're swimming in the kiddie pool for 1B/DH I look forward to them diving in the deep end for pitching.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Vanimal46

[Tom Froemming]

C.J. Cron is the best hitter on the Twins ...

[DocBauer]

Maybe the idea is a Cron/Austin/Kepler/Cave grouping at 1B/DH/RF? That would leave one as a bench bat every game. It would also mean that Sano has to play 3B most of the time, not DH, but I think that's the way this FO wants it to be next year to see if Sano can be an every day 3B.  

 

Bottom line, there's not a lot to dislike about this move unless it prevents us from making a better one where we really have the opportunity. Opportunity means more than just someone we want and budget flexibiliity, it means someone who wants to or is at least willing to come to the Twins. I think there are fewer guys who want to do that than we may like to admit or imagine. Unfortunately, the Twins are a much less than prime destination at the moment - not a big or sexy market with endorsement opportunities, playing in snow in April, and a less than stellar recent track record. Not exactly a plum destination. 

 

FWIW, I'd rather have Cron than Nelson Cruz. Cruz is 39 or is it 39? Or 49?), can't play in the field, and is much more likely to declline than improve where Cron is the reverse.  I don't see Cron instead of Ctuz as much of a lost opportunity.

 

Just to add, as I did a short time ago in this same thread, isn't this the perfect opportunity to add someone like McCutchen or Brantley to the mix?

 

Add another big bat, especially with Cron being so inexpensive, and build your roster from depth and strength. Let Rocco figure out how to use "too much talent" and have the depth for trades, injuries, etc.

 

In addition to a prime infield addition, or course.

 

There was a whole thread recently about the Brewers adding and subtracting from their OF depth. Couldn't this be an option for the Twins at this point?

[Vanimal46]

C.J. Cron is the best hitter on the Twins ...

Did you cry typing that? Because I'm crying reading that sentence.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Impossible to say until the Twins use the theoretical "savings" to sign another player. If they're swimming in the kiddie pool for 1B/DH I look forward to them diving in the deep end for pitching.

If we want to use big money on a position, I'd put 1b/DH pretty far down the list.  

 

If the Twins continue to bargain shop, I'm not sure that should be an indictment of Cron, or have this particular pick up.  

[USAFChief]

By enough to justify Cruz's outsized cost? That's the real question.

What are we trying to win? Baseball games, or wins per dollar?

 

There's a reason Cruz will cost more.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

And I'm not sure about Rooker's OF potential either. I read reports that say he doesn't look good, and then I read a personal account...was it BobSacramento??...that states he looks like a natural athlete. So I admit I'm confused.

I guess I've always seen him as a primary DH who could also play 1B and some OF with Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Cave, Khirilloff being more the mainstay position players.

Either way, I get potential and being drafted and signed as a college senior, but Rooker has a year and a half of professional ball. I fully expect him to do what he did last season, which is take a little time to adjust to AAA ball and then take pretty good. But I've never counted on him to begin 2019 with the Twins.

True, it's reasonable to not count on Rooker much at all, let alone to start the season. But he's 24 and in the high minors so I'd be surprised if we didn't see him at some point.

 

And maybe not at first base, maybe I'm being optimistic.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Hosken Bombo Disco

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I was hoping someone else has kids. Or is married to an elementary school teacher.

4 year old and 18 months

[TheLeviathan]

 

1) No one was arguing that 5 million is more than the minimum. But 5mil for .800 OPS is affordable even from a 1b/DH.

 

2) Cron has actually posted a season of 30/.800. Austin doesn't have that. If you're unwilling to predict a repeat for Cron, upon what basis do you predict Austin will be equal to Cron? Projection? Small-sample size?

 

3) The splits suggest the two players could compliment each other despite the same-handedness. 

 

You're paying 5M over 500k for an increase in OPS of .044.  You keep making his .800 OPS out to be significantly more than Austin.  Austin put up a .782 OPS.  I don't consider it worth 5M and a roster spot to up that to .816.  Especially since the two players play the same position.  

 

The majority of Cron's career has not been a .816 OPS player.  He was just DFA'd by the Rays.  I think counting on him to be a 30 HR, .800 OPS guy is fool's gold.  

 

The roster spot just used on Cron should've been used on a right-handed outfielder.  Not a limited corner infielder.  We have those.

Edited November 27, 2018 by TheLeviathan

[PseudoSABR]

 

What are we trying to win? Baseball games, or wins per dollar?

There's a reason Cruz will cost more.

The "it's not my money" argument doesn't hold much water with me.   The dollars you want to spend on Cruz can be better spent elsewhere in the pursuit of wins.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

The "it's not my money" argument doesn't hold much water with me.   The dollars you want to spend on Cruz can be better spent elsewhere in the pursuit of wins.  

 

You don't seem to believe that argument in this thread?

[PseudoSABR]

 

You're paying 5M over 500k for an increase in OPS of .044.  You keep making his .800 OPS out to be significantly more than Austin.  Austin put up a .782 OPS.  I don't consider it worth 5M and a roster spot to up that to .816.  Especially since the two players play the same position.  

 

The majority of Cron's career has not been a .816 OPS player.  He was just DFA'd by the Rays.  I think counting on him to be a 30 HR, .800 OPS guy is fool's gold.  

 

The roster spot just used on Cron should've been used on a right-handed outfielder.  Not a limited corner infielder.  We have those.

Austin had far fewer at bats.  Cron played more last season than he ever has. 

 

If Cron being DFA'd by TB counts as a strike, so does being traded for Lance Lynn.  /sarcasm-kinda

 

I doubt Cron prevents us from signing a RHed OFer.  Again, we have holes at 1B/DH.  We do not have plenty of corner infield bats.  

 

[Winston Smith]

 

I hope they settle the redundancy concern soon. Though if the Twins want to be hip, now, with it and wow like the Rays, they probably shouldn't dedicate $5 million to a player who's not a big upgrade to who they have already making $550k.

It's the end of November! Redundancy will be figured out in March. The money means nothing until sometime in spring training.