Plenty of money

[Vanimal46]

If you don't spend to the floor, left over money goes to the minor league rosters.... Or, less good, left over money goes to any player that made the 25 man during the year.

To piggyback off of this, make it a penalty. The team below the salary cap floor has to pay the difference to teams in their division. The Rays can continue being an $80 million payroll club if they want, but they're handing the Yankees, Red Sox, Jays, and Orioles a check for $5 million a piece.

[Mike Sixel]

To piggyback off of this, make it a penalty. The team below the salary cap floor has to pay the difference to teams in their division. The Rays can continue being an $80 million payroll club if they want, but they're handing the Yankees, Red Sox, Jays, and Orioles a check for $5 million a piece.

Not a fan, but I get the intent. Just give it to the minor league players.

[darin617]

 

If you don't spend to the floor, left over money goes to the minor league rosters.... Or, less good, left over money goes to any player that made the 25 man during the year.

This would give them a target to aim to try to spend as little as they can possible and still stay above the floor.

 

I know it would never happen with any teams that get their stadium paid for by taxpayers. What should happen is that the state should get all the parking fee's and a very small percentage of the concessions.

 

No reason these states get held hostage and the only return they get on the investment is that the team doesn't relocate.

[Mike Sixel]

This would give them a target to aim to try to spend as little as they can possible and still stay above the floor.

 

I know it would never happen with any teams that get their stadium paid for by taxpayers. What should happen is that the state should get all the parking fee's and a very small percentage of the concessions.

 

No reason these states get held hostage and the only return they get on the investment is that the team doesn't relocate.

That's a totally different discussion. Right now they have no incentive to spend more, other than winning. I'm not sure I get your point. There is no floor today.

[Mr. Brooks]

I've been thinking about this lately as I fully believe there is plenty of money in baseball. Free agency is broken and needs a severe overhaul by the next CBA. If Machado and Harper, 2 of the most coveted/star-studded free agents since A-Rod can't sign a contract in a quick fashion it's over.

 

Some potential fixes for free agency and re-allocating the money:

 

- Implement a negotiating window from Jan 1 to Feb 28. The most painful part of the Offseason is the seemingly endless window where teams can negotiate and sign with players. Teams clearly have no incentive to sign players early, so let's create some urgency. Only allow players to sign with new teams for 2 months.

 

- Implement a salary floor/cap system. The luxury tax is already a fabricated salary cap that teams don't want to cross anymore. Make that the cap. Every team in baseball should be able to maintain a $100 million payroll floor. If they are financially not able to do it, move that team to a city that can generate better revenues.

 

- Start a pay for current performance program. In this risk-averse sport, no one wants to play for any decline years. Yet everyone blissfully ignores the amazing value players provide while under pre-arbitration contracts. Since the owners are no longer holding up their end of the bargain, the good players should get paid when they're currently doing well.

The players would never go for the free agent cutoff date, or the performance based pay.

[gil4]

 

Oh good. I hadn’t read a “Pohlads are cheap thread” in a while. Let’s go sign someone for let’s say $23 million a season and then listen to fans bitch that he takes too much payroll and doesn’t hit 35 HRs.

Why don't we sign a guy for $23M who does hit 35 HR instead. 

[Vanimal46]

The players would never go for the free agent cutoff date, or the performance based pay.

Maybe not but something needs to change. For as long as I can remember the pre-arb/arbitration structure has been in place. They accepted a smaller wage at the beginning in hopes of getting paid when they hit free agency. Well, the owners and GMs aren't holding up that end of the deal anymore. So players need to think about alternative methods to get paid what they're worth.

[Mr. Brooks]

Maybe not but something needs to change. For as long as I can remember the pre-arb/arbitration structure has been in place. They accepted a smaller wage at the beginning in hopes of getting paid when they hit free agency. Well, the owners and GMs aren't holding up that end of the deal anymore. So players need to think about alternative methods to get paid what they're worth.

The solution that the players would go for would be less service time to hit free agency, or 6 years of arbitration, instead of 3 years of league minimum first.

They'll never in a million years give in to non guaranteed contracts, which is essentially what your idea would be.

[Mr. Brooks]

Maybe not but something needs to change. For as long as I can remember the pre-arb/arbitration structure has been in place. They accepted a smaller wage at the beginning in hopes of getting paid when they hit free agency. Well, the owners and GMs aren't holding up that end of the deal anymore. So players need to think about alternative methods to get paid what they're worth.

Also we need more data before we suggest that teams are no longer holding up their end of the deal. Last year appears to be a fluke in that regard. Everyone has gotten paid again this year, just like Harper and Machado will, even if it takes longer than some fan's attention spans can handle.

[Mike Sixel]

Also we need more data before we suggest that teams are no longer holding up their end of the deal. Last year appears to be a fluke in that regard. Everyone has gotten paid again this year, just like Harper and Machado will, even if it takes longer than some fan's attention spans can handle.

Well, not really. Plenty of publicly available data that revenues are rising faster than wages.... Not to mention team values. So, no, teams are not holding up their end of the bargain.

[Tuba]

Arbitration should pay solely on results. Your WAR x $5,000,000 is your salary now. Players in negative have to pay the club.

[Vanimal46]

I will offer this article as a starting point in the data collection.

 

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/1/8/18173625/free-agency-slow-signing-pace-manny-machado-bryce-harper

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, not really. Plenty of publicly available data that revenues are rising faster than wages.... Not to mention team values. So, no, teams are not holding up their end of the bargain.

I don't believe salary has ever been collectively bargained to be tied to revenue, as it has for other sports. So, that is just as much the player's fault as it is ownership's.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't believe salary has ever been collectively bargained to be tied to revenue, as it has for other sports. So, that is just as much the player's fault as it is ownership's.

That didn't seem to be your argument in the post I responded to. Clearly, players are not being paid like they were. Maybe I misunderstood your point. Could just be lack of sleep....

[Mr. Brooks]

That didn't seem to be your argument in the post I responded to. Clearly, players are not being paid like they were. Maybe I misunderstood your point. Could just be lack of sleep....

Again, it's not clear that players aren't being paid like they were.

Last year was only the second time in 50 years that league salary didn't rise year over year.

We need more evidence than one off season, last year could have been a fluke.

Spending seems to be back to normal, IMO, when you account for the big names still unsigned.

Harper and Machado are going to get paid, who cares how long into the offseason it takes?

Zach Britton just got 3/36, seems to me that guys are back to getting big deals.

[biggentleben]

The CBA has a luxury tax that is a major impact in considerations. That is what holds down a lot of these arguments. Could the Cubs sign anyone they wanted? Sure, but they have exceeded the luxury tax multiple seasons. If they do it this year, they will lose draft picks and international money.

[Vanimal46]

[Mr. Brooks]

https://twitter.com/cdgoldstein/status/1083228518337658880?s=19

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Yasmani Grandal is nowhere close to comparable to Russell Martin, at the time he signed that deal.

Martin combined for 9.4 bWAR the 2 years prior to signing that deal. Grandal has combined for 5.5 the last 2 years.

And Grandal signed for the same AAV as Martin, after turning down 4/50, so if anything Grandal overachieved in his negotiations, compared to Martin.

[Mr. Brooks]

That didn't seem to be your argument in the post I responded to. Clearly, players are not being paid like they were. Maybe I misunderstood your point. Could just be lack of sleep....

Dozier just got $9 million. I'm not sure he's even barely a depth caliber player anymore, let alone a starter.

Teams may be avoiding longer deals, but they don't appear to be paying less per year, IMO.

[Vanimal46]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Yasmani Grandal is nowhere close to comparable to Russell Martin, at the time he signed that deal.

Martin combined for 9.4 bWAR the 2 years prior to signing that deal. Grandal has combined for 5.5 the last 2 years.

And Grandal signed for the same AAV as Martin, after turning down 4/50, so if anything Grandal overachieved in his negotiations, compared to Martin.

The person I quoted addressed that in a reply.

 

https://twitter.com/cdgoldstein/status/1083362273559760903?s=19

 

The point is, there's an extra $1.3 billion in revenue that simply didn't exist in 2014. Yet 5 years later, players are getting paid about the same. Where's the extra $1.3 billion going? Certainly not to the players.

[Mr. Brooks]

The person I quoted addressed that in a reply.

 

https://twitter.com/cdgoldstein/status/1083362273559760903?s=19

 

The point is, there's an extra $1.3 billion in revenue that simply didn't exist in 2014. Yet 5 years later, players are getting paid about the same. Where's the extra $1.3 billion going? Certainly not to the players.

Players are not getting paid the same though.

Last year was only the second time in 50 years that total league salary didn't rise year over year.

And, that response from him is just wrong. Martin was older, yes, but he was the far better player, at the time he signed that deal.

 

And, the players could easily negotiate payroll be tied to revenue, as it is in other leagues. But they won't, because then they'd have to have a salary cap. So it's just as much on the players as it is ownership. Why would the owners pay more than they have to, to acquire the players services? Out of the kindness of their hearts?

[Vanimal46]

The player's union reps are doing them a disservice right now by not having payroll tied to revenue. Implementing a salary cap/floor was something I proposed a page ago. I think that would be a smart thing to do since owners already treat the luxury tax number as the cap. That number should climb annually just like the NFL's salary cap number.

[TheLeviathan]

This strike is going to be ugly.  Both sides may rue the day they let all this money get away from them.

[Vanimal46]

 

All you need to know about this team and their priorities.

[Mike Sixel]

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/01/27/the-banality-of-cheap-baseball-teams/

 

concur.

[TheLeviathan]

This will come back to bite this sport.  I don't understand how ownership groups think this is good for the game long term.

 

It's such short-term, misguided thinking.

[Vanimal46]

 

This is a bad LEN3 argument...

[old nurse]

There is a correlation to payroll and winning.  . 58 correlation is moderate. That has nothing to do with free agency being an effective method of obtaining talent.

[Mr. Brooks]

https://twitter.com/LaVelleNeal/status/1090382946240991232?s=19

 

This is a bad LEN3 argument...

Yeah well, the next time LENIII is critical of something the Twins don't want him to be critical of will be the first.

[Kelly Vance]

this discussion is proof that the offseason is wayyyyy toooooooooo loooooooooong