Non-Twins Off-season news, tidbits and transactions

[Vanimal46]

Does that count as fodder? I've never heard of the other 2 guys but that isn't saying much...

 

I clicked on the Twitter blurb Pseudo posted and one of the responses said Yankees #1 (Sheffield), unranked, and #22 prospects in their system. So I guess yes, this is fodder.

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

 

Does that count as fodder? I've never heard of the other 2 guys but that isn't saying much...

I clicked on the Twitter blurb Pseudo posted and one of the responses said Yankees #1 (Sheffield), unranked, and #22 prospects in their system. So I guess yes, this is fodder.

Probably mid season rankings

 

Swanson probably near to top ten now

[TheLeviathan]

That is a stupidly light package. Ugh. Make the Yanks pay.

[nicksaviking]

Would have been an interesting target for the Twins with two years left of control. Let's see how steep the full package is, because just Sheffield and fodder sounds like a price the Twins could have topped.

I would have liked Paxton, but I don’t know that the Twins could have topped the Yankees. Maybe if the Twins were inclined to move Kirilloff or Lewis AND Seattle was inclined to prefer them. But if Seattle wanted pitching the best the Twins have us Graterol; as much as I like him, Sheffield is a better prospect.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would have liked Paxton, but I don’t know that the Twins could have topped the Yankees. Maybe if the Twins were inclined to move Kirilloff or Lewis AND Seattle was inclined to prefer them. But if Seattle wanted pitching the best the Twins have us Grayerol; as much as I like him, Sheffield is a better prospect.

 

Agreed. But there is always a "reason" why the Twins didn't do something. Always.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I would have liked Paxton, but I don’t know that the Twins could have topped the Yankees. Maybe if the Twins were inclined to move Kirilloff or Lewis AND Seattle was inclined to prefer them. But if Seattle wanted pitching the best the Twins have us Graterol; as much as I like him, Sheffield is a better prospect.

I was thinking Romero+. I think we forget about him in terms of trade assets. That said, we'd have to include a nice second piece, of which we seem to have plenty.

[USAFChief]

Pretty easy to envision Paxson as a Minnesota Twin today. 

 

I continue to be unimpressed with the new front office's player acquisitions, or lack thereof. 

[MABB1959]

 

Gotta hand it to the Yankees - ROY last year in Judge, and 2nd and 3rd place this year in Torres and Andujar. Got their homegrown ace in Severino. They do a nice job of developing players: Sanchez, Betances, Holder, etc.

 

Their trade record is also pretty good. There's more than just deep pockets in the Bronx.

They did well with Hicks too!

[ashbury]

Pretty easy to envision Paxson as a Minnesota Twin today. 

 

I continue to be unimpressed with the new front office's player acquisitions, or lack thereof. 

If they leave room for a Rule-5 draft pick and then actually select someone, it says to me that they aren't aiming to contend in 2019. We'll find out their intentions a little better in 3 weeks. In that case, I can at least understand the rationale for not trading for a Paxton now - pitchers are seen as a risk to implode at any time, and 2019 isn't the year to shoulder that risk. There is always someone available like this each off-season.

 

Mind you, I don't WANT a Rule-5 pick, nor the rationale that predicates it.

[MABB1959]

Watching other teams get great players is so depressing.  Read the MLB article and of the top 10 the Twins have a less that 2% chance of getting 3 of them.  I think this is worse then being out of it by the trade deadline.  

[cmoss84]

Would have been nice to get Paxson...but I understand why we didn't. Pretty injury prone guy to give up Kiriloff or Lewis, which is probably what it was going to take. If you're going to trade those guys-better be for Syndergaard. Wonder if Sea firesale happens and if we have any interest in Gordon.

*Not saying Syndergaard has been 100% healthy either, but he's much younger.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

James Paxton for a TINSTAAPP and an A ball masher. The eagle has landed!

[Vanimal46]

We don't know it would have taken Lewis or Kirilloff... The Yankees #1 prospect doesn't necessarily mean the Twins #1 prospect. Regardless, the fear of trading prospects is why this team is not improving at the MLB level.

[nicksaviking]

 

I was thinking Romero+. I think we forget about him in terms of trade assets. That said, we'd have to include a nice second piece, of which we seem to have plenty.

 

Sure I suppose that may have been of interest.

 

I don't know though, I think I'd much rather have Romero for the next five years over Paxton for the next two. Paxton has serious trouble staying healthy. I don't know, maybe, I could have gone either way on that package. But of course with Paxton the window is only two years, so that means the team is going for it now, which means they'd need to figure out a way to make a bunch of other moves.

[nicksaviking]

 

We don't know it would have taken Lewis or Kirilloff... The Yankees #1 prospect doesn't necessarily mean the Twins #1 prospect. Regardless, the fear of trading prospects is why this team is not improving at the MLB level.

 

So for some reason the Mariners would have taken an inferior package from the Twins but the Twins didn't pull the trigger because they were afraid of trading prospects?

[Vanimal46]

So for some reason the Mariners would have taken an inferior package from the Twins but the Twins didn't pull the trigger because they were afraid of trading prospects?

If an inferior package is Romero+ prospects in the 6-10 range I guess. There's always something holding back the Twins from making these kind of trades... Fear may be one of the reasons holding them back.

[nicksaviking]

 

If an inferior package is Romero+ prospects in the 6-10 range I guess. There's always something holding back the Twins from making these kind of trades... Fear may be one of the reasons holding them back.

 

There's 29 other teams though, why do you assume there's something holding the Twins back aside from other clubs having better talent to offer in these trades?

 

I like Paxton and I would have liked to trade for him, but honestly, I thought the haul would be lighter for him, this guy can't stay healthy and he's only got two years left. If the Twins could have gotten him for Graterol and other prospects I would have thought it fair. Romero, Lewis or Kirilloff? I think most GMs would say no, and I assume 28 of them did. You'll be lucky if Paxton is still on the mound come when you need him most. 

[Steve Lein]

I think a comparable deal from the Twins would have looked something like:

 

-Brusdar Graterol or Fernando Romero

-Blayne Enlow or Lewis Thorpe, and

-LaMonte Wade or Akil Baddoo

 

But Justus Sheffield is better, by quite a good margin, than any front-lining pitcher the Twins could offer. That's the most important part.

[Steve Lein]

 

If the Twins could have gotten him for Graterol and other prospects I would have thought it fair. Romero, Lewis or Kirilloff? I think most GMs would say no, and I assume 28 of them did. You'll be lucky if Paxton is still on the mound come when you need him most. 

 

Yeah, I've read lots of teams were in on him, including the Astros, but they wouldn't part with Forrest Whitley so Mariners went on to the Yankees offer with Sheffield.

 

Royce and Kirilloff are higher rated prospects than Sheffield so I don't think they would have been on the table. But guessing Seattle was looking for the best pitching prospect they could get back.

[Mike Sixel]

There's 29 other teams though, why do you assume there's something holding the Twins back aside from other clubs having better talent to offer in these trades?

 

I like Paxton and I would have liked to trade for him, but honestly, I thought the haul would be lighter for him, this guy can't stay healthy and he's only got two years left. If the Twins could have gotten him for Graterol and other prospects I would have thought it fair. Romero, Lewis or Kirilloff? I think most GMs would say no, and I assume 28 of them did. You'll be lucky if Paxton is still on the mound come when you need him most.

Because they NEVER trade prospects for players like this. Ever. That's the point. How's that working out? There is always an excuse.

[Vanimal46]

There's 29 other teams though, why do you assume there's something holding the Twins back aside from other clubs having better talent to offer in these trades?

 

I like Paxton and I would have liked to trade for him, but honestly, I thought the haul would be lighter for him, this guy can't stay healthy and he's only got two years left. If the Twins could have gotten him for Graterol and other prospects I would have thought it fair. Romero, Lewis or Kirilloff? I think most GMs would say no, and I assume 28 of them did. You'll be lucky if Paxton is still on the mound come when you need him most.

Because the last time they traded prospects for an established MLB player was what... Kielty for Shannon Stewart in 2003?

 

I'm not asking for the Twins to drain the farm for every player on the trade block. I want one trade... Just one trade.

[nicksaviking]

 

I think a comparable deal from the Twins would have looked something like:

 

-Brusdar Graterol or Fernando Romero

-Blayne Enlow or Lewis Thorpe, and

-LaMonte Wade or Akil Baddoo

 

But Justus Sheffield is better, by quite a good margin, than any front-lining pitcher the Twins could offer. That's the most important part.

 

And that's assuming the Mariners would have accepted quantity over quality. Seems to me when the Twins are talking about trading a vet, we want the best possible prospects, not the most prospects.

[nicksaviking]

 

Because they NEVER trade prospects for players like this. Ever. That's the point. How's that working out? There is always an excuse.

 

This site would have burned to the ground if the Twins traded Lewis or Kirilloff for two years of injury plagued James Paxton.

[Mike Sixel]

This site would have burned to the ground if the Twins traded Lewis or Kirilloff for two years of injury plagued James Paxton.

Again, missing the point. The next trade we'll read how it just didn't work, then the next trade, then the next trade. Somehow, no matter the farm system, or needs, it never is a good idea for the Twins.

[nicksaviking]

 

Because the last time they traded prospects for an established MLB player was what... Kielty for Shannon Stewart in 2003?

I'm not asking for the Twins to drain the farm for every player on the trade block. I want one trade... Just one trade.

 

If they're making a big trade now, I'd want more than one though. James Paxton doesn't get this club to the playoffs. Bad teams that try to win now by randomly making big trades look like the Padres. It sucks, but they have to build a better foundation first. They've screwed up doing it the last decade and should have way more to show for it at the MLB level but they just don't. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Again, missing the point. The next trade we'll read how it just didn't work, then the next trade, then the next trade. Somehow, no matter the farm system, or needs, it never is a good idea for the Twins.

 

Well we can pretty definitively say that was true for Terry Ryan, I'd completely agree on that front. Bill Smith was a different story, that was, well, just indescribable? 

 

This front office doesn't seem to hold Ryan's prospects in very high regard though, so I would expect them to trade those guys off, but they've also never been in a competitive position due to a very poorly constructed roster, some fault due to their predecessor, some due to their own free agent decisions. If like Ryan they have a competitive team and they're still not trading for the needed missing pieces, then I'll agree that they're gun-shy and not doing what it takes.

 

Bad teams tend to be on the prospect end of these kinds of trades, and in my view, the Twins are still a bad team.

[Vanimal46]

If they're making a big trade now, I'd want more than one though. James Paxton doesn't get this club to the playoffs. Bad teams that try to win now by randomly making big trades look like the Padres. It sucks, but they have to build a better foundation first. They've screwed up doing it the last decade and should have way more to show for it at the MLB level but they just don't.

Gotta start somewhere... Seems like another excuse we've heard over the years. "Why do this one trade when they need to make several trades?"

 

How much better can the foundation get? They have a top 5ish farm system right now.

[tvagle]

 

Pretty easy to envision Paxson as a Minnesota Twin today. 

 

I continue to be unimpressed with the new front office's player acquisitions, or lack thereof. 

 

John or Jim? Both were scrappy guards that could shoot it a little...I'd prefer John as he has a few rings (3 to be exact) and playoff experience as MJ's side-kick...at 58 he might be a little old but I could see it

[nicksaviking]

 

Gotta start somewhere... Seems like another excuse we've heard over the years. "Why do this one trade when they need to make several trades?"

How much better can the foundation get? They have a top 5ish farm system right now.

 

The MLB team is an absolute mess. The only league average offensive players they have are Rosario and Garver. They only have two players who can work a count and one of them is Robbie Grossman. The entire infield is a question mark; are any of their starting 2020 infielders even on their roster at the moment? They have no right handed bats and the bullpen is quite possibly the worst in the league. 

 

Just a guess, not my preference, but this team is probably closer to trading Kyle Gibson than trading for James Paxton. 

 

I was having different thoughts about this stuff at the end of the season, but after looking at the 40 man and realizing I want less than half of those players anymore, I've kind of had to change my view. I'd prefer shrewd trades and free agent signings, but man, they're going to have to hit on at minimum a half dozen on them to fix this disaster of a roster.

[bird]

 

Because they NEVER trade prospects for players like this. Ever. That's the point. How's that working out? There is always an excuse.

 

Let's see if this history holds up. NEVER, ever, and always are absolutes. Some things have changed, right?

 

The boy geniuses have an unprecedented set of favorable things in place. Failing at the urgent task of improving this MLB roster for 2019 would be tragically inept. They have enough talent on the roster now, plenty of cash now, and attractive prospect talent now, to warrant bold decisions.

 

I don't know if not trading for Paxton is an excuse. It's tempting to re-label a reason as an excuse when frustration levels are high. I for one am saving up my energy to see what they do and hoping my reactions are positive. I'm guarded, not expecting, just hoping, because the stars are aligned for these wonder boys right now to make some good decisions.

 

As for this transaction, I'm not sure I wouldn't place a bet, at the right odds, on Sheffield to produce more than Paxton in 2020. And I'd place a big bet that Seattle accumulates a lot more of that WAR stuff over the long haul from this transaction than the Yanks do, although that doesn't mean it's a poor decision by the Yanks. It could be a good decision for both sides for different reasons.