Non-Twins Off-season news, tidbits and transactions

[Mike Sixel]

Injury insurance? A 6th starter that you don't feel bad about stashing in an unpredictable long relief / mop-up role until the need arises?

Isn't that Mejia and Stewart?

[PseudoSABR]

 

Injury insurance? A 6th starter that you don't feel bad about stashing in an unpredictable long relief / mop-up role until the need arises?

Well, I think that's Perez's actual role (unless he adjusts to their plan and kills it as a starter).  I suppose we could just throw down for Keuchel, but I'm not so down for that.   

 

I see this as depth move.  And he's not so expensive that we can't just cut bait if the plan for him doesn't work out.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Isn't that Mejia and Stewart?

Now it is, yes. But in the hypothetical where we signed another, better SP, I could see Perez being a better fit for that role (assuming we don't lose Mejia -- him being out of options certainly complicates matters).

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well, shouldn't you wait to see if Stewart translates that into actual success for the team?  I mean, it's great he feels good, but players tell us how great they feel all the time about a change in their approach and it's far from a lock it works.

 

The point about a second starter is that if Perez is their last addition to the rotation , it's still a dicey group.  I doubt many people feel especially great about Berrios-Gibson-Pineda-Odorizzi-Perez-Mejia.  I sure don't.

I guess I should.  But nonetheless, whether Stewart works out, I like the process (development) all the same.  I mean Stewart was available for the Rule 5 last year, and he looked somewhat okay in his MLB exposure--I'd say that's pretty significant jump. 

 

And no question, it's a dicey group of starters.  Whether Perez or Corbin, the rest are still dicey.  This team is built on a lot of hope.  (Which is why I advocate restraint in the FA market, unpopularly). 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well, I think that's Perez's actual role (unless he adjusts to their plan and kills it as a starter). I suppose we could just throw down for Keuchel, but I'm not so down for that.

 

I see this as depth move. And he's not so expensive that we can't just cut bait if the plan for him doesn't work out.

I think Perez's actual role is 5th starter, before taking into account potential injuries.

 

But yeah, he would be a fine depth piece -- after you've already added a quality piece. Maybe it's down to Keuchel now, but there were others available before.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I think Perez's actual role is 5th starter, before taking into account potential injuries.

But yeah, he would be a fine depth piece -- after you've already added a quality piece. Maybe it's down to Keuchel now, but there were others available before.

So Corbin? Look, I'm down for a real addition to the starting rotation.  But it sounds like you're not satisfied with Keuchel, so you think the moon is attainable? And Corbin ain't the moon.   (Also, I'm not sure the Twins so easily jettison Meija to the bullpen or off the roster, I think them eating Perez's contract is very real).

 

Look, I'm disappointed with the lack of spending too, but with free agency, starting pitching was not flush with viable, better options than what the Twins already had.  

 

It's super frustrating, but this offseason market did not align with the Twins needs, and to the extent that they did, they went got Nelson, Cron, and Schoop.  No, that's not Harper or whatever, but it is competent. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

So Corbin? Look, I'm down for a real addition to the starting rotation. But it sounds like you're not satisfied with Keuchel, so you think the moon is attainable? And Corbin ain't the moon. (Also, I'm not sure the Twins so easily jettison Meija to the bullpen or off the roster, I think them eating Perez's contract is very real).

 

Look, I'm disappointed with the lack of spending too, but with free agency, starting pitching was not flush with viable, better options than what the Twins already had.

 

It's super frustrating, but this offseason market did not align with the Twins needs, and to the extent that they did, they went got Nelson, Cron, and Schoop. No, that's not Harper or whatever, but it is competent.

I'm not sure what you think I am arguing. I just jumped in to say that signing both Perez plus a better SP would not necessarily bump any of our current top 4 starters. That's all.

 

I am not necessarily unsatisfied with Keuchel, that was you -- I was just acknowledging our options are more limited today than at the start of the offseason (Corbin, Eovaldi, Happ, Morton). Still a chance Keuchel is available on a fair contract, though, and could help this team.

 

Really though, you can't just isolate one offseason. Last offseason was filled with "competent" short term deals too (and their first offseason had even less than that). An over-reliance on a short-term, competent strategy will likely leave us deficient of the quality of assets required to compete.

[TheLeviathan]

There were trade options as well, in addition to FA possibilities.  

[Vanimal46]

The off-season market did align with the Twins' needs... They need high end pitching, and there were a dozen relievers that could have fit the mold. Instead they went with the value route, per usual.

[howieramone2]

 

I don't think we know either way yet. Their FA signings have largely not worked yet, but their drafts look great. Solid mixed grade from me.

They turned their short term FA contracts into a haul at the trade deadline. So in essence we have 3 drafts. Rule 4, IFA, and trade deadline. 

[SomeGuy]

Phillies are close to getting Realmuto.  Reports say they are in the medical/physicals stage of the negotiations.  Sounds like Sixto Sanchez (#1 prospect), their young MLB catcher Jorge Alfaro (similar track record to Mitch Garver) and another prospect from Phillies top 10 will be included.

 

This seems like a haul for the Marlins.

[howieramone2]

 

It's not the some"one" else....but there are 5-7 guys they don't have much MLB information on, nor have they settled their initial nerves, etc. And, they have 1-2 guys under contract next year......

 

I don't get the Perez signing on so many levels.

I get it on all levels. If one game is going to settle our season tomorrow. Do you go with the guy who threw 25 innings last year or Perez? This move is for the present. Here and now. If one of our young pitchers becomes a world beater, we DFA Perez or send him to the bullpen no sweat. Flexibility is a good thing. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I get it on all levels. If one game is going to settle our season tomorrow. Do you go with the guy who threw 25 innings last year or Perez? This move is for the present. Here and now. If one of our young pitchers becomes a world beater, we DFA Perez or send him to the bullpen no sweat. Flexibility is a good thing. 

 

I'd go with Mejia or Romero. But that's just liking the person I have less data on......

 

They themselves said that one reason they aren't signing certain players is because you only sign those when they are the last hole....implying to me, at least, they are not playing for the present. 

[biggentleben]

 

Phillies are close to getting Realmuto.  Reports say they are in the medical/physicals stage of the negotiations.  Sounds like Sixto Sanchez (#1 prospect), their young MLB catcher Jorge Alfaro (similar track record to Mitch Garver) and another prospect from Phillies top 10 will be included.

 

This seems like a haul for the Marlins.

 

Pure ridiculousness. The Marlins have milked this out better than the Rays milked out Archer. Both acquiring teams will regret the move equally.

[Mike Sixel]

That's a lot to give up for 2 years of Realmuto.

[Vanimal46]

Phillies are close to getting Realmuto. Reports say they are in the medical/physicals stage of the negotiations. Sounds like Sixto Sanchez (#1 prospect), their young MLB catcher Jorge Alfaro (similar track record to Mitch Garver) and another prospect from Phillies top 10 will be included.

 

This seems like a haul for the Marlins.

Not really. Sanchez has a small frame like Berrios and could easily end up as a bullpen arm only. Alfaro is one of the worst pitch framers in baseball. I would make this trade in a heart beat for Philly. Sign Machado or Harper too and they're instantly favorites in the division.

[howieramone2]

 

I'd go with Mejia or Romero. But that's just liking the person I have less data on......

 

They themselves said that one reason they aren't signing certain players is because you only sign those when they are the last hole....implying to me, at least, they are not playing for the present. 

Don't fall for the company line. They are looking to win right now. When you are getting paid millions of dollars you can't just point your figure at ownership and refer to them as cheap bastards. The ceiling of this franchise is to dominate the Central. Nothing more.

[biggentleben]

 

Not really. Sanchez has a small frame like Berrios and could easily end up as a bullpen arm only. Alfaro is one of the worst pitch framers in baseball. I would make this trade in a heart beat for Philly. Sign Machado or Harper too and they're instantly favorites in the division.

 

1. there's reportedly a third piece in the deal

2. Alfaro is arguably the most athletic catcher in the game with the strongest arm in the game. Realmuto is a poor framer as well. Defense isn't an argument to make for the move at catcher, it's contact skills at the plate.

3. Catchers break down. A lot. Moving Alfaro still leaves the Phils without a great backup plan if Realmuto does break down, which is why they pursued Ramos midseason last year. Realmuto had one of the largest OPS drop-offs from first half to second half in all of baseball in 2018, and that's a trend for him. While he graded at the top in 2018 of catchers on a few WAR scales, he didn't in all of them, and he's not been a guy to consistently finish in the top 2-3 each year until last year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Realmuto is a poor framer as well.

Is this true? At Baseball Prospectus, Realmuto seems to be rated as average for 2018, and above average for 2017, after being below average for 2015-2016.

[Vanimal46]

1. there's reportedly a third piece in the deal

2. Alfaro is arguably the most athletic catcher in the game with the strongest arm in the game. Realmuto is a poor framer as well. Defense isn't an argument to make for the move at catcher, it's contact skills at the plate.

3. Catchers break down. A lot. Moving Alfaro still leaves the Phils without a great backup plan if Realmuto does break down, which is why they pursued Ramos midseason last year. Realmuto had one of the largest OPS drop-offs from first half to second half in all of baseball in 2018, and that's a trend for him. While he graded at the top in 2018 of catchers on a few WAR scales, he didn't in all of them, and he's not been a guy to consistently finish in the top 2-3 each year until last year.

1. The 3rd piece isn't going to scare me either way from making the trade. Not when the headliner and 2nd piece is already set.

 

2. Realmuto is the most athletic catcher in the game. Alfaro may be one day. Check out his statcast data, specifically Sprint speed and pop time to pick off a runner stealing a base. I'll wait for your reply.

 

Defense is absolutely a measurement to make a move at catcher. You have to be really good offensively to make up for poor defense. I prefer better defense and ability to manage a pitching staff. I think Realmuto is much better at those aspects than Alfaro is currently, and most likely in the future.

 

3. His 2nd half slide doesn't scare me either. Over the last 3 years he has the most fWAR, 5th in WRC+, and played in the 2nd most games during that span, trailing immortal Yadier Molina by 3 games. You can hope Alfaro becomes someone like Realmuto one day. I'll take the player who's actually produced these numbers consistently.

[SomeGuy]

The Marlins rebuild takes a huge step forward if this trade goes through.  Replacing 2 years of a great catcher with 5 years of an above average catcher.  Also adding a flamethrower that is viewed as a future frontline starter and whoever else is included, sounds likely it will be another Philly top 10 prospect.

[SomeGuy]

 

1. The 3rd piece isn't going to scare me either way from making the trade. Not when the headliner and 2nd piece is already set.

2. Realmuto is the most athletic catcher in the game. Alfaro may be one day. Check out his statcast data, specifically Sprint speed and pop time to pick off a runner stealing a base. I'll wait for your reply.

Defense is absolutely a measurement to make a move at catcher. You have to be really good offensively to make up for poor defense. I prefer better defense and ability to manage a pitching staff. I think Realmuto is much better at those aspects than Alfaro is currently, and most likely in the future.

3. His 2nd half slide doesn't scare me either. Over the last 3 years he has the most fWAR, 5th in WRC+, and played in the 2nd most games during that span, trailing immortal Yadier Molina by 3 games. You can hope Alfaro becomes someone like Realmuto one day. I'll take the player who's actually produced these numbers consistently.

They rank 1 and 2 in sprint speed for all catchers....  0.3 MPH separates them.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

The Marlins rebuild takes a huge step forward if this trade goes through.  Replacing 2 years of a great catcher with 5 years of an above average catcher.  Also adding a flamethrower that is viewed as a future frontline starter and whoever else is included, sounds likely it will be another Philly top 10 prospect.

Or they could have kept all their good players, and competed for the division. Six of one, half dozen of the other....

[KirbyDome89]

 

I value process over outcome, in terms of evaluating an organization and the people running it.  

 

Perez already pushes Meija, much less any of our AAA/AA starters, out of the of the rotation.   A second starter pushes Ordozzi/Gibson/Pineda out of the rotation.

It's true that a great process won't always yield stellar results, but if the outcome is consistently underwhelming doesn't that have to reflect on the process at some level? 

 

IMO a lot of the defense of the FO at this point is blind faith. That doesn't mean I'm grabbing my pitchfork here, but their decisions/process need to start playing out on the field. It's year 3 and there really is no strong sense of direction, or much in terms of tangible results that inspire confidence moving forward.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

It's true that a great process won't always yield stellar results, but if the outcome is consistently underwhelming doesn't that have to reflect on the process at some level? 

 

IMO a lot of the defense of the FO at this point is blind faith. That doesn't mean I'm grabbing my pitchfork here, but their decisions/process need to start playing out on the field. It's year 3 and there really is no strong sense of direction, or much in terms of tangible results that inspire confidence moving forward.  

 

They get a little bit of a pass for me because Ryan left this team in such a dire situation as a modern baseball team.  But I was also critical (often) of that regime for exactly that.  

 

I find that many that defend the FO (and those too critical also) are in their camp regardless of what the situation is.  Thing is, you don't get to tell us to "slow down, it's Ryan's fault, things are great now!" when you were telling us "slow down, it's Smith's fault, Ryan's back and things are great now!" right to the bitter end.

 

Sorta a credibility killer right there.  I like what these guys have done righting the wrongs of our minor league system.  And I hope they have something up their sleeve with Perez, but they are losing time for me to be patient with their player acquisitions via trade and free agency.  

[SomeGuy]

 

Or they could have kept all their good players, and competed for the division. Six of one, half dozen of the other....

They were a sub .500 team with their good players and operating at a loss at that payroll.

 

Pulled this from a 2017 article about their new ownership.

The Marlins are expected to lose more than $60 million this season, according to a source who has seen their books, in part because their revenues are among the lowest in MLB and in part because their $115 million payroll is the largest in franchise history.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article166767852.html#storylink=cpy

[KirbyDome89]

 

They get a little bit of a pass for me because Ryan left this team in such a dire situation as a modern baseball team.  But I was also critical (often) of that regime for exactly that.  

 

I find that many that defend the FO (and those too critical also) are in their camp regardless of what the situation is.  Thing is, you don't get to tell us to "slow down, it's Ryan's fault, things are great now!" when you were telling us "slow down, it's Smith's fault, Ryan's back and things are great now!" right to the bitter end.

 

Sorta a credibility killer right there.  I like what these guys have done righting the wrongs of our minor league system.  And I hope they have something up their sleeve with Perez, but they are losing time for me to be patient with their player acquisitions via trade and free agency.  

I think everybody can agree that this team operates in a more modern way. As far as internal operations go, yes, they get a pass from me as well.

 

They've certainly seemed to have handled the draft much better than Ryan did in his later years. Cave *should* be a decent 4th OFer, so that's a nice find. It isn't all doom and gloom. 

 

I think my issue is the same as yours. I was fine with year 1 being an evaluation year ect. That isn't the case so much with year 3. I think "hope," is the key word with the Perez signing, and a lot of what is tied to the FO. I'm fine with optimism, I was just expecting for it to be rooted in more solid ground at this point.

 

 

[sweetmusicviola16]

Frank Robinson passes away today at 83 y/o. One of our all-time greats.

[Danchat]

The Indians signed RP Alex Wilson to a minor league deal... despite him throwing 3.20 ERA and 1.16 WHIP the past four years combined. He'll make $1.25M if he makes the team... but I really feel like he should be making more money than that. I guess his lack of strikeouts combined with him being 32, and nobody wants to throw money at that despite being worth about 5.3 WAR in those 4 seasons.

[biggentleben]

 

The Indians signed RP Alex Wilson to a minor league deal... despite him throwing 3.20 ERA and 1.16 WHIP the past four years combined. He'll make $1.25M if he makes the team... but I really feel like he should be making more money than that. I guess his lack of strikeouts combined with him being 32, and nobody wants to throw money at that despite being worth about 5.3 WAR in those 4 seasons.

 

This has been the reliever market all offseason. A guy like Wilson, who would usually be a one-year-contract sort of guy is now on a minor league deal. Instead of $15M per, guys got $12-13M...no, it doesn't look like much in the latter case, but if you noted relievers all winter were getting fewer years, less average annual value, and/or less overall contract value than projected across the board, and they were the only position seeing that.