Non-Twins Off-season news, tidbits and transactions

[Vanimal46]

That's how the players are going to fight back for now, through arbitration... Harper, Machado, Donaldson, etc. set the bar to earn substaintial raises that way.

[Danchat]

 

Martin Perez has a better ERA+ than Wade Miley, and is 5 years younger. And the Twins got an option.

Career ERA+, yes, but I'd rather sign the guy coming off of a great season with a 159 ERA+ rather than the guy coming off a career worst 78 ERA+. I understand Miley likely isn't going to live up to his 2018 season again, but at least he has the upside of pitching that well. Perez's upside is that he will be league average but the ceiling on him seems to be very low... not to mention Perez has progressively gotten worse over the past 3-4 seasons (looking at WHIP, ERA, BB/9) and I would expect him to have another poor year in 2019. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Career ERA+, yes, but I'd rather sign the guy coming off of a great season with a 159 ERA+ rather than the guy coming off a career worst 78 ERA+. I understand Miley likely isn't going to live up to his 2018 season again, but at least he has the upside of pitching that well. Perez's upside is that he will be league average but the ceiling on him seems to be very low... not to mention Perez has progressively gotten worse over the past 3-4 seasons (looking at WHIP, ERA, BB/9) and I would expect him to have another poor year in 2019.

I can understand that. But, he's 27 years old. I'm giving the FO the benefit of the doubt that they think they've identified areas that they can improve. I don't think the FO is intentionally adding a player that they think will be bad.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I can understand that. But, he's 27 years old. I'm giving the FO the benefit of the doubt that they think they've identified areas that they can improve. I don't think the FO is intentionally adding a player that they think will be bad.

I believe the FO sees something readily fixable in Martin Perez, and I think other teams did too, given the reports that he had other offers.   Reading about what the organization did with Kohl Stewart gives me hope that they can apply it to Perez, who was a very highly thought of prospect (BA rated him in the top 100 five times, and in the top 30ish three times), and may have been pushed a bit too aggressively. 

[biggentleben]

 

Long would be somewhere in the 10-20 range for the Twins and a comp pick for a year of a solid mid rotation starter isn’t so bad.

I’m with you on Perez, better to go in house than Perez.

A- you need more than one pitcher with 20+ MLB starts under his belt for 2020

B- Mejia as the floor is just as good if not better than Perez and Mejia is a strikeout/fly ball guy which fits the team fielding strength better than the ground ball machine.

 

I didn't address this at the time, but on point A...

 

You have Berrios make a full season of starts this year. That puts him firmly in the 20+ start category.

 

Adalberto Mejia already has 25 MLB starts under his belt.

 

If Romero were to take a starting job for two months of the 2019 season even, he'd eclipse 20 starts as he has 11 already.

 

Chase De Jong is in roster limbo presently, but if he's around, he does have 8 starts to his MLB credit.

 

Gonsalves has 4, and adding 16 more is simply having a rotation spot 5 times through. In the middle of the summer, you could do that in two months, though to open the season, it'd take more April through June with added early off days in order to make it.

 

Stewart also has 4, so ditto the Gonsalves explanation.

 

Littell only has 2 MLB starts, so he has work to put in. Obviously, guys like Thorpe, Jax, and Wells have none.

 

The point is not to have Berrios and a band of inexperience in 2020. You utilize the rotation to see what you have in guys like Romero, Gonsalves, and more this summer so you can determine which guys are part of the 2020 rotation and which guys need to be in the minors longer and/or are no longer part of the long-term plans. That informs your ability to then enter a free agent class that has some fairly nice names in the 2019-2020 offseason presently:

 

Madison Bumgarner

Gerrit Cole

Kyle Gibson

Cole Hamels

Matt Harvey

Miles Mikolas

Rick Porcello

Chris Sale

Justin Verlander

Michael Wacha

Zack Wheeler

Alex Wood

 

A whole slew of guys have options, Strasburg and Arrieta have opt-outs (as does Darvish, but yeah...), and there will be more non-tendered.

 

Good time to hit the market with funds available and a rotation needing a few top arms...

[sweetmusicviola16]

Nice to see Drew Butera get a job, for someone other than the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

I didn't address this at the time, but on point A...

 

You have Berrios make a full season of starts this year. That puts him firmly in the 20+ start category.

 

Adalberto Mejia already has 25 MLB starts under his belt.

 

If Romero were to take a starting job for two months of the 2019 season even, he'd eclipse 20 starts as he has 11 already.

 

Chase De Jong is in roster limbo presently, but if he's around, he does have 8 starts to his MLB credit.

 

Gonsalves has 4, and adding 16 more is simply having a rotation spot 5 times through. In the middle of the summer, you could do that in two months, though to open the season, it'd take more April through June with added early off days in order to make it.

 

Stewart also has 4, so ditto the Gonsalves explanation.

 

Littell only has 2 MLB starts, so he has work to put in. Obviously, guys like Thorpe, Jax, and Wells have none.

 

The point is not to have Berrios and a band of inexperience in 2020. You utilize the rotation to see what you have in guys like Romero, Gonsalves, and more this summer so you can determine which guys are part of the 2020 rotation and which guys need to be in the minors longer and/or are no longer part of the long-term plans. That informs your ability to then enter a free agent class that has some fairly nice names in the 2019-2020 offseason presently:

 

Madison Bumgarner

Gerrit Cole

Kyle Gibson

Cole Hamels

Matt Harvey

Miles Mikolas

Rick Porcello

Chris Sale

Justin Verlander

Michael Wacha

Zack Wheeler

Alex Wood

 

A whole slew of guys have options, Strasburg and Arrieta have opt-outs (as does Darvish, but yeah...), and there will be more non-tendered.

 

Good time to hit the market with funds available and a rotation needing a few top arms...

How does that happen with Perez added? Without a lot of injuries, or trades, or just terrible pitching? Because you are talking about multiple players not in the rotation to start the year getting ten plus starts....

[bird]

 

I believe the FO sees something readily fixable in Martin Perez, and I think other teams did too, given the reports that he had other offers.   Reading about what the organization did with Kohl Stewart gives me hope that they can apply it to Perez, who was a very highly thought of prospect (BA rated him in the top 100 five times, and in the top 30ish three times), and may have been pushed a bit too aggressively. 

 

 

This really is the only plausible explanation. This FO is not bad at their jobs.

[Mike Sixel]

This really is the only plausible explanation. This FO is not bad at their jobs.

I don't think we know either way yet. Their FA signings have largely not worked yet, but their drafts look great. Solid mixed grade from me.

[Monkeypaws]

Thing is they have access to sooooo much more and better information than we do, or at least I would hope so. 

 

Doubt Keith Law is must read for them.

 

Hard to evaluate from the outside looking in.

[Jim Hahn]

This really is the only plausible explanation. This FO is not bad at their jobs.

That sort of is the question really. I don't think we know yet, whether they are bad at their jobs. Or more specifically, which part of their job they are good at. Most of us are willing to give them more time. But making a lot of changes to the organization, merely means they have made a lot changes. When we have more outcomes we will see.

 

I would be more confident if I understood the endgame better. They kind of seem to be throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Right now they are pretty dependent on the core pieces they inherited from the previous regime. That will change as time goes on.

[lukeduke1980]

 

I believe the FO sees something readily fixable in Martin Perez, and I think other teams did too, given the reports that he had other offers.   Reading about what the organization did with Kohl Stewart gives me hope that they can apply it to Perez, who was a very highly thought of prospect (BA rated him in the top 100 five times, and in the top 30ish three times), and may have been pushed a bit too aggressively. 

I think this might be part of it, though I also suspect they had 3 million left in the budget and saw more value in a Martin Perez rebound than a Zach Duke type 3 million dollar relief pitcher

[TheLeviathan]

The Twins wanting Perez doesn't say much. They wanted LoMo too, does that somehow make it a good move.

 

Ultimately whether they are bad or good at their jobs is determined by who they want, not whether they wanted someone. It's a pretty silly distinction to make.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I didn't address this at the time, but on point A...

 

You have Berrios make a full season of starts this year. That puts him firmly in the 20+ start category.

 

Adalberto Mejia already has 25 MLB starts under his belt.

 

If Romero were to take a starting job for two months of the 2019 season even, he'd eclipse 20 starts as he has 11 already.

 

Chase De Jong is in roster limbo presently, but if he's around, he does have 8 starts to his MLB credit.

 

Gonsalves has 4, and adding 16 more is simply having a rotation spot 5 times through. In the middle of the summer, you could do that in two months, though to open the season, it'd take more April through June with added early off days in order to make it.

 

Stewart also has 4, so ditto the Gonsalves explanation.

 

Littell only has 2 MLB starts, so he has work to put in. Obviously, guys like Thorpe, Jax, and Wells have none.

 

The point is not to have Berrios and a band of inexperience in 2020. You utilize the rotation to see what you have in guys like Romero, Gonsalves, and more this summer so you can determine which guys are part of the 2020 rotation and which guys need to be in the minors longer and/or are no longer part of the long-term plans. That informs your ability to then enter a free agent class that has some fairly nice names in the 2019-2020 offseason presently:

 

Madison Bumgarner

Gerrit Cole

Kyle Gibson

Cole Hamels

Matt Harvey

Miles Mikolas

Rick Porcello

Chris Sale

Justin Verlander

Michael Wacha

Zack Wheeler

Alex Wood

 

A whole slew of guys have options, Strasburg and Arrieta have opt-outs (as does Darvish, but yeah...), and there will be more non-tendered.

 

Good time to hit the market with funds available and a rotation needing a few top arms...

with a rotation of Berrios, Gibson, Odorizzi, Pineda and Perez, and assuming Pineda isn’t still hurt, the 6th starter, presumably Mejia would be in line for 10ish starts/primary appearances. The 7th man up, maybe 5? the rest 8-11 look for 1 a piece.

 

Also, there’s nothing magical about 20 starts. Mejia got 25 and still could use a good long look to see what you got. It was a number I threw out there.

 

So is the plan to sign 2-3 of those elite free agent primary pitchers? How many of those guys are actually going to make it to free agency? Hopefully Gibson comes off that list this spring.

 

I’ve said in other posts that I think the FO is going to try to trade for a pitcher from their outfield depth. Easier said than done

[PseudoSABR]

 

The Twins wanting Perez doesn't say much. They wanted LoMo too, does that somehow make it a good move.

Ultimately whether they are bad or good at their jobs is determined by who they want, not whether they wanted someone. It's a pretty silly distinction to make.

LoMo clearly didn't work out, but it doesn't mean the Twins were wrong for buying him at the price-point they did (after all he hit, what 38 dingers the previous year).  But Perez at that contract (as opposed to a minor league one, or one with escalators) suggests the FO sees something we do not; whether that's correct I don't know.   But I remember an awful lot of hand-wringing over Annibal Sanchez and although, he didn't do it for the Twins, he put in a better season than ANYONE anticipated.  

 

Maybe it doesn't pan out, but I hope that the Twins data/video approach to developing pitchers in the minor leagues (see Stewart) pays dividends at the major league.  Perez is just 27 after all.  

[nicksaviking]

 

Sergio Romo close to signing. Formerly in Tampa? The original "opener"? Cloak and dagger team that hasn't leaked anything? One year deal?

 

I got my money on the Twins having a new reliever very soon. And the fans collectively groaning/shrugging about him.

 

 

[ashbury]

I got my money on the Twins having a new reliever very soon. And the fans collectively groaning/shrugging about him.

"Hi! DIdn't you used to be Sergio Romo?"

[nicksaviking]

Also, does Twitter prevent, or just discourage journalists from using capitalization and punctuation? I mean Jon Heyman is still a journalist right? Or do you give up that moniker when you use social media to report?

[ashbury]

"Hi! DIdn't you used to be Jon Heyman?"

[biggentleben]

 

with a rotation of Berrios, Gibson, Odorizzi, Pineda and Perez, and assuming Pineda isn’t still hurt, the 6th starter, presumably Mejia would be in line for 10ish starts/primary appearances. The 7th man up, maybe 5? the rest 8-11 look for 1 a piece.

Also, there’s nothing magical about 20 starts. Mejia got 25 and still could use a good long look to see what you got. It was a number I threw out there.

So is the plan to sign 2-3 of those elite free agent primary pitchers? How many of those guys are actually going to make it to free agency? Hopefully Gibson comes off that list this spring.

I’ve said in other posts that I think the FO is going to try to trade for a pitcher from their outfield depth. Easier said than done

 

The average major league team used 10 starting pitchers in 2018. Having a set 5 or even set 6 going into the season doesn't mean you won't see someone else get quite a few starts.

 

I can tell you one team that would love to move a consistent #3/#4 guy with a few years of control for an outfielder...

[Mike Sixel]

 

The average major league team used 10 starting pitchers in 2018. Having a set 5 or even set 6 going into the season doesn't mean you won't see someone else get quite a few starts.

 

I can tell you one team that would love to move a consistent #3/#4 guy with a few years of control for an outfielder...

 

It's not the some"one" else....but there are 5-7 guys they don't have much MLB information on, nor have they settled their initial nerves, etc. And, they have 1-2 guys under contract next year......

 

I don't get the Perez signing on so many levels.

[TheLeviathan]

 

LoMo clearly didn't work out, but it doesn't mean the Twins were wrong for buying him at the price-point they did (after all he hit, what 38 dingers the previous year).  But Perez at that contract (as opposed to a minor league one, or one with escalators) suggests the FO sees something we do not; whether that's correct I don't know.   But I remember an awful lot of hand-wringing over Annibal Sanchez and although, he didn't do it for the Twins, he put in a better season than ANYONE anticipated.  

 

Maybe it doesn't pan out, but I hope that the Twins data/video approach to developing pitchers in the minor leagues (see Stewart) pays dividends at the major league.  Perez is just 27 after all.  

 

Well, the move turned out poorly.  And they don't get credit for signing Sanchez when they also chose to release him.

 

I too hope their moves work out, but you don't get to give them credit for merely wanting a player.  They get credit or blame based on how their moves ultimately work.

 

I think more people would be ok with Perez if he was the second SP they signed.  Not the only one.

[ashbury]

I think more people would be ok with Perez if he was the second best SP they signed.  Not the only one.

FTFY. Otherwise Pat Dean counts.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well, the move turned out poorly.  And they don't get credit for signing Sanchez when they also chose to release him.

 

I too hope their moves work out, but you don't get to give them credit for merely wanting a player.  They get credit or blame based on how their moves ultimately work.

 

I think more people would be ok with Perez if he was the second SP they signed.  Not the only one.

I value process over outcome, in terms of evaluating an organization and the people running it.  

 

Perez already pushes Meija, much less any of our AAA/AA starters, out of the of the rotation.   A second starter pushes Ordozzi/Gibson/Pineda out of the rotation.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I value process over outcome, in terms of evaluating an organization and the people running it.  

 

Perez already pushes Meija, much less any of our AAA/AA starters, out of the of the rotation.

 

The Twins wanting him is not an indication of a good process either, because you have no idea (and neither do I) what that process is or if it's sound.  Ultimately that is decided by results as well.

 

It's ok to say you don't condemn the move yet and want to wait for results, but that's different than giving them credit for seeing something and wanting a player.  They can see whatever they want, if they can't manifest it....why should any of us care?

 

I need to see them get more results in the big leagues with moves like this before I just automatically buy-in.  I don't want them fired for it either and my complaints stem more from the context of his signing than the signing itself.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Perez already pushes Meija, much less any of our AAA/AA starters, out of the of the rotation.   A second starter pushes Ordozzi/Gibson/Pineda out of the rotation.

I think it's more likely a second starter acquisition would push Perez out of the rotation.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I think it's more likely a second starter acquisition would push Perez out of the rotation.

Well, duh.  Then what is the point of acquiring Perez as the "second starter"?  The premise of my reply was that Perez would be a good second addition to the rotation....

[PseudoSABR]

 

The Twins wanting him is not an indication of a good process either, because you have no idea (and neither do I) what that process is or if it's sound.  Ultimately that is decided by results as well.

 

It's ok to say you don't condemn the move yet and want to wait for results, but that's different than giving them credit for seeing something and wanting a player.  They can see whatever they want, if they can't manifest it....why should any of us care?

 

I need to see them get more results in the big leagues with moves like this before I just automatically buy-in.  I don't want them fired for it either and my complaints stem more from the context of his signing than the signing itself.

That's fair.  I can't judge their process or the result as of yet.  

 

(And again, I'm only hopeful about their process because of what Stewart said about his own development)

[TheLeviathan]

 

That's fair.  I can't judge their process or the result as of yet.  

 

(And again, I'm only hopeful about their process because of what Stewart said about his own development)

 

Well, shouldn't you wait to see if Stewart translates that into actual success for the team?  I mean, it's great he feels good, but players tell us how great they feel all the time about a change in their approach and it's far from a lock it works.

 

The point about a second starter is that if Perez is their last addition to the rotation , it's still a dicey group.  I doubt many people feel especially great about Berrios-Gibson-Pineda-Odorizzi-Perez-Mejia.  I sure don't.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well, duh. Then what is the point of acquiring Perez as the "second starter"? The premise of my reply was that Perez would be a good second addition to the rotation....

Injury insurance? A 6th starter that you don't feel bad about stashing in an unpredictable long relief / mop-up role until the need arises?