Week 8: Vikings vs. Saints SNF!

[Badsmerf]

That interception was a bad decision from the get go. Yeah, Diggs stopped, but he wasn't open anyway. He should have allowed him to clear, or just take the sack. That is my only complaint of cousins, is that he gets reckless when the pocket is breaking down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is playing poorly.

[Mr. Brooks]

That interception was a bad decision from the get go. Yeah, Diggs stopped, but he wasn't open anyway. He should have allowed him to clear, or just take the sack. That is my only complaint of cousins, is that he gets reckless when the pocket is breaking down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is playing poorly.

I get that, but he's under pressure almost every single time. He has no choice but to make risky throws under pressure. He can't throw it away or take a sack or we'll be 3 and out every single drive.

[Vanimal46]

I get that, but he's under pressure almost every single time. He has no choice but to make risky throws under pressure. He can't throw it away or take a sack or we'll be 3 and out every single drive.

Especially last night. I read a tweet that Cousins was under pressure for 50% of passing plays.

[nicksaviking]

 

I get that, but he's under pressure almost every single time. He has no choice but to make risky throws under pressure. He can't throw it away or take a sack or we'll be 3 and out every single drive.

 

 

Yeah but a two yard drag route where the corner is glued to the receiver gets you two yards at most. There was very little upside to that play.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'd guess the Saints weren't exactly taking chances in the 2nd half......I don't know what happens if they are really putting the foot on the pedal. 

 

I would presume they were putting out an effort in the first half. If not for Theilen's fumble they'd have had 10 points and what, maybe 200 yards at the half?

 

I've never known the Saints to take their foot off the pedal though. They've always tried to run up the score from my recollection. Very much the NFC's version of the Patriots.

 

It should be mentioned how poorly the Vikings clock management was though. Wow, that was just awful. Why were they huddling up with five minutes left and down three scores? Are they a HS team? And what is with the dinking and dunking? Pretty sure even if the Saints are playing back to take away the big plays, your odds are still better going deep. Pretty sure we have some recent evidence to confirm exactly that as well.

[TheLeviathan]

I think it's really hard to judge that game.  Those two turnovers single-handedly lost it for us.  Especially the Thielen one, that took a 16-10 or 20-10 game and completely flipped it around.

 

I'll say it again - the vast majority of teams have terrible offensive lines.  I thought Cousins had time to make plays most of the night and the running game was working well.  

 

This team should've been up 20-10 at the half and getting the ball.  That's where this game turned.  Turnovers can do that to teams, though I wish they would've had more fight coming out of half time and scoring rather than that stupid fourth down play.

[Vanimal46]

I think it's really hard to judge that game. Those two turnovers single-handedly lost it for us. Especially the Thielen one, that took a 16-10 or 20-10 game and completely flipped it around.

 

I'll say it again - the vast majority of teams have terrible offensive lines. I thought Cousins had time to make plays most of the night and the running game was working well.

 

This team should've been up 20-10 at the half and getting the ball. That's where this game turned. Turnovers can do that to teams, though I wish they would've had more fight coming out of half time and scoring rather than that stupid fourth down play.

OL play is bad throughout the league, but the Vikings are consistently ranked as a bottom 5 NFL team at OL. It's been that way for years...

[TheLeviathan]

 

OL play is bad throughout the league, but the Vikings are consistently ranked as a bottom 5 NFL team at OL. It's been that way for years...

 

Yes, I'm just pointing out the delta between 25th and 5th may not be all that significant. 

[Vanimal46]

Yes, I'm just pointing out the delta between 25th and 5th may not be all that significant.

Who knows. I don't have a PFF subscription to dig into it. I'm assuming that the Vikings give up a significant amount of pressures and less time for Kirk to make a decision compared to a 15th ranked OL.

[nicksaviking]

 

Who knows. I don't have a PFF subscription to dig into it. I'm assuming that the Vikings give up a significant amount of pressures and less time for Kirk to make a decision compared to a 15th ranked OL.

 

I'm happy with Cousins and hope he's here long term after the decades of inconsistency at the position, but guys like Brees actually don't need much time. The reason for the Vikings lack of pressure yesterday had less to do with the Saints line and more to do with Brees knowing where he's going with the ball and getting it there before any defender has a chance to make a move.

 

I'd like the Vikings and Cousins to be able to get rid of the ball more quickly, though if they can't even run a no huddle it might not be in the cards.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yes, I'm just pointing out the delta between 25th and 5th may not be all that significant.

We wouldn't spend the money that we are on our D-line if most offensive lines are terrible to the extent you claim. That would be a terrible waste of resources.

I'm not buying that.

[TheLeviathan]

 

We wouldn't spend the money that we are on our D-line if most offensive lines are terrible to the extent you claim. That would be a terrible waste of resources.
I'm not buying that.

 

Why do you think the premium being paid for pass rushers is so high?  Look what the Saints paid for Davenport.  And some of the FA contracts.

 

So no, I don't agree with that logic at all.

[Mr. Brooks]

Why do you think the premium being paid for pass rushers is so high? Look what the Saints paid for Davenport. And some of the FA contracts.

 

So no, I don't agree with that logic at all.

That's my point.

There would only be a premium for pass rushers if it's a difficult thing to do. If the offensive lines were all awful, then any mediocre defensive lineman could disrupt them, and there wouldn't be any need to pay a premium for those that can.

The premium price for pass rushers means that only a few can do it, which implies that most offensive lines are good enough to stop mediocre defensive linemen.

[TheLeviathan]

The premium on pass-rushers has to do with the frequency and quickness of the NFL passing game. That's what makes the offensive line play even more staggering. They aren't even asked to block as long and are still failing it at it relative to their peers of the past.

[Mr. Brooks]

The premium on pass-rushers has to do with the frequency and quickness of the NFL passing game. That's what makes the offensive line play even more staggering. They aren't even asked to block as long and are still failing it at it relative to their peers of the past.

The quality of offensive line play as a whole could have dropped, but that doesn't mean there isn't still a gap between 5 and 25.

 

I'll dig into hurry/sack etc numbers when I have more time. But, just from the eye test alone, when I watch NFL redzone on Sundays, I see plenty of QB's with considerable less pressure than Cousins faces.

[snepp]

Wherever the discussion on o-line ranking ultimately falls, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that coming into the season we knew it could (or would) be an issue, unfortunately it's only gotten worse since.

 

 

[Vanimal46]

[TheLeviathan]

I wonder what the blitz rate is the Vikings are facing.  Perhaps some of the pressure rate and success is driven by that?

 

Hey, if I'm wrong I'll be happy to admit it.  But I've seen a lot of NFL games this year where some QBs are getting worn the hell out by pass rushes.

[Mike Sixel]

The D isn't elite, and the O is not good enough, not with two of the best WRs in teh game and a $35MM a year QB. Norv Turner seems more innovative than our current OC......

 

It's clear they shouldn't be paying this much for this level of TE play.....I

[David HK]

Ah, well...

 

Big game, hot lights, purple collars tighten.

 

What else is new....

[Mr. Brooks]

I wonder what the blitz rate is the Vikings are facing. Perhaps some of the pressure rate and success is driven by that?

 

Hey, if I'm wrong I'll be happy to admit it. But I've seen a lot of NFL games this year where some QBs are getting worn the hell out by pass rushes.

I too, would be curious what the numbers say on blitzes.

My recollection is that I don't see many of them. It usually seems that a 3 or 4 man rush has no problem.

And, theoretically, I can't imagine opposing coordinators sending a lot of blitzes against a team with Thielen and Diggs.

[Doomtints]

I didn't watch the game (I'm trying not to watch football this year) but the metrics are strange indeed. The Vikings put up 1998-2001 numbers but only scored 20 points? And they allowed 30 with such a good defensive performance? Very odd game.

 

The Vikings can beat the Saints, for sure. Maybe they'll meet in the playoffs.

[nicksaviking]

 

I didn't watch the game (I'm trying not to watch football this year) but the metrics are strange indeed. The Vikings put up 1998-2001 numbers but only scored 20 points? And they allowed 30 with such a good defensive performance? Very odd game.

 

The Vikings can beat the Saints, for sure. Maybe they'll meet in the playoffs.

 

I'd say the two bone-headed turnovers directly corresponded to both the offensive and defensive points. Hypothetically, take 14 points off the later and add it to the former and your numbers probably would feel more accurate.

 

Not trying to justify anything, just pointing out where the discrepancy lies.

[Badsmerf]

I'd say the two bone-headed turnovers directly corresponded to both the offensive and defensive points. Hypothetically, take 14 points off the later and add it to the former and your numbers probably would feel more accurate.

 

Not trying to justify anything, just pointing out where the discrepancy lies.

I think many would agree with that. Vikings outplayed the Saints for the most part.