Sonny Gray

[old nurse]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/10/yankees-trade-rumors-shop-sonny-gray.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

 

Why do I get this feeling that Gray will end up a Twin?  If they are going to ship him to an American League team it would be best to send him to the team that does the least damage to them. he would be a buy low candidate. The question is how high is low enough for one year?

[Old Twins Cap]

If past is prologue, Twins trade Buxton for him.

[Mike Sixel]

Not interested.

[mngopherguy]

Probably a good buy low candidate.  Recent trades between the teams doesn't hurt either.  

 

I would like Happ just because I miss having a junk baller around.  

[Squirrel]

I think we can and should do better than that.

[ChrisKnutson]

The only way I’d be ok with acquiring Gray is if we trade from our SP depth; either Littell or De Jong.

[TheLeviathan]

Hell yes.  Look at his home-road splits - this guy was doomed by the bandbox that is Yankee stadium.

 

His velocity is still good, his strikeouts are still there, and if you take him out of Yankee stadium you probably get back a really good pitcher.

 

Sign me up.

[jorgenswest]

Teams must be wondering if he will be nontendered. What kinds of offers does he get if nontendered? Maybe he gets a contract similar to Lance Lynn as a ceiling.

 

In that case would you rather give up a prospect and pay 9+ million in arbitration or spend a little more in free agency and keep the prospect?

 

I don’t think there is much space between his value in free agency vs. his arbitration award. Certainly not enough space to give up much more than a guy that is on the fringes of the 40.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think Sonny Gray will be very good again. I don't think the Twins have the pitching tech or coaches to truly help pitchers. Houston does, but the Twins don't. They helped Pressly become a scary reliever, not just a somewhat inconsistent back end piece and someone with potential unrealized, but still effective. Our system had Pressly and had the "pitching expert" front office, and they just traded him for a 23 year old pitcher they hope can be like him someday, instead of just keeping him and helping him be what he could become. Sonny Gray could be really good again. I don't know that this organization would be good for him, though. And as long as the EDEE (Every Day Eddie Experience) is coaching the pen, I don't see much progress.

 

By the way... Alcala's ERA ballooned from 3.54 with Houston's AA team in 40 innings, to 5.85 in 20 innings with Chattanooga. Two levels down and hoping to become a pitcher like Pressly. Pressly goes to Houston and gets better, and Alcala comes to the Twins' system and gets worse.

Development isn’t linear. That goes for players and coaching staffs. Just because Acala backslid and Pressly stepped up doesn’t mean one coaching staff excelled and the other screwed up.

 

That being said, the rumor is Eddie isn’t sticking around the bullpen for next year. I’ve heard anecdotes that Eddie helped Rogers and Pressly with their secondary offerings quite a bit.

 

I do agree the Houston has the better coaching staff already in place. I would caution that 2 months of results in only two players is evidence of it, or should affect Falvine’s attempt (if at all) of Gray. It sounds like more coaching changes are in process with the Twins and Falvine need to have faith that their solutions at Pitching Coach will be effective.

 

Edit: to the subject. I’m a fan of getting a starter like Gray who could be very effective, front of rotation type, and outside of injury will be mid rotation type, still in Arbitration at least his last year. Trade for him, try to extend him right away.

[Doctor Wu]

 

The only way I’d be ok with acquiring Gray is if we trade from our SP depth; either Littell or De Jong.

I'm not sure that either Littell or De Jong qualify as giving us starting pitching depth, but I agree that Gray would be a step up from those guys. Hey, maybe it's one of those cases of a player who just didn't click in NYC. I'm dubious about Gray's ability to bounce back and be a reliable rotation arm, but if it doesn't cost us much, why not?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I'm not sure that either Littell or De Jong qualify as giving us starting pitching depth, but I agree that Gray would be a step up from those guys. Hey, maybe it's one of those cases of a player who just didn't click in NYC. I'm dubious about Gray's ability to bounce back and be a reliable rotation arm, but if it doesn't cost us much, why not?

Trade Pineda back to NY?

[ChrisKnutson]

Trade Pineda back to NY?

Improbable, but not impossible. Although Tampa Bay seems more likely.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/11/24/how-rocco-baldelli-plans-manage-twins/rDF6tDkouWXDaWmnxWeSMN/story.html?event=event12

 

Good write-up on Baldelli by Nick Cafardo. Sounds like Gray to the Twins still has legs two weeks later.

[TheLeviathan]

I really hope this happens, it's a brilliant buy-low move.

[USAFChief]

I really hope this happens, it's a brilliant buy-low move.

Possibly, and probably worth a shot. But I can’t help but wonder why the Yankees would look to trade him while simultaneously look to add a starter.

[Winston Smith]

 

Possibly, and probably worth a shot. But I can’t help but wonder why the Yankees would look to trade him while simultaneously look to add a starter.

Because he can't handle the bright lights and big city. He pitches like crap in NY and good away. 6.98 era at home, 3.17 away.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Possibly, and probably worth a shot. But I can’t help but wonder why the Yankees would look to trade him while simultaneously look to add a starter.

I’m with you, can it be as simple as they see the home-away splits and are selling based on that?

 

I also wonder how much of a boon he’d see pitching for the Twins especially when looking at the park factors, target field doesn’t exactly suppress homers particularly against right handed hitters.

 

That being said, I’m in favor of such a trade for the right price.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Possibly, and probably worth a shot. But I can’t help but wonder why the Yankees would look to trade him while simultaneously look to add a starter.

 

Because Yankee stadium punishes him.  His splits are nothing short of stark.

 

Home 4 4 .500 6.98  59.1 1.90 WHIP 6.8 SO/9
Away  7 5 .583 3.17  71.0 1.15 WHIP 9.9 SO/9

 

Get him away from Yankee stadium and you have yourself a stud.

[Major League Ready]

Can we give them JR Murphy back? Obviously, I am being facetious but this is a great buy low opportunity. It would be even better if we picked him up after being non-tendered and build in a couple option years. I suppose it would be possible to make the trade with an agreement for salary and options in place. Is there anything with the CBA or MLB rules that prevent us from paying him more this year to buy a couple option years.

[mikelink45]

How can I say an emphatic NO.  If bright lights bother him he is not the man I want pitching in the playoffs and I am not interested in building a team for prolonged 500 mediocrity.  Lets go for some quality and real success. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

How can I say an emphatic NO. If bright lights bother him he is not the man I want pitching in the playoffs and I am not interested in building a team for prolonged 500 mediocrity. Lets go for some quality and real success.

it’s not the pressure of Yankee stadium, he was a stud in Oakland. Oakland and Target Field are pretty similar park factors by all three metrics and against lefties and righties.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/park-factors-park-factors-park-factors-oh-my/

[Shaitan]

 

How can I say an emphatic NO.  If bright lights bother him he is not the man I want pitching in the playoffs and I am not interested in building a team for prolonged 500 mediocrity.  Lets go for some quality and real success. 

 

You have to get to the playoffs first. If he can give 20 quality starts it's valuable, no matter what his ERA is in Yankee Stadium. But I'm also a firm believer that MLB playoffs are as much about who is hot at the right time as they're about who has the best team. (In other words, mediocrity can win on any given day.)

 

I'd take a flyer on him as long as it's a middle level prospect. But I'm also apprehensive about pitchers who thrived in Oakland. They don't seem to do well outside of that stadium. 

[ChrisKnutson]

I’d pass on Gray, and I’d also like pass on making a long term commitment to Corbin or Gray as well. What the Twins need is an arm like Nathan Eovaldi’s, a flamethrower who’s shown he’s capable of being both an ace starter, and a dominant super reliever. Who cares if we over pay him, at least it won’t be anything near what Corbin or Keuchel will demand.

 

Of course a lot of things would need to go right, and assuming they do, imagine this as our 2020 rotation...

 

1) Jose Berrios

2) Nathan Eovaldi

3) Fernando Romero

4) Brusdar Graterol

5) Trade/Free Agent

[mikelink45]

 

You have to get to the playoffs first. If he can give 20 quality starts it's valuable, no matter what his ERA is in Yankee Stadium. But I'm also a firm believer that MLB playoffs are as much about who is hot at the right time as they're about who has the best team. (In other words, mediocrity can win on any given day.)

 

I'd take a flyer on him as long as it's a middle level prospect. But I'm also apprehensive about pitchers who thrived in Oakland. They don't seem to do well outside of that stadium. 

There are better options and I want us to go for the best we can get.

[mikelink45]

 

it’s not the pressure of Yankee stadium, he was a stud in Oakland. Oakland and Target Field are pretty similar park factors by all three metrics and against lefties and righties.

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/park-factors-park-factors-park-factors-oh-my/

I do not want to settle for someone good enough.  I want someone who can really make a difference.  I do not want a bounce back, I want someone who has performed and will continue. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I do not want to settle for someone good enough.  I want someone who can really make a difference.  I do not want a bounce back, I want someone who has performed and will continue. 

 

We are not one player away from anything.  Acquiring good players, at a cost less than what they may provide you in value, is always a good move.

[Brandon]

Sony Gray is a flyball pitcher. We have a bigger stadium and a Buxton for that. If we are going to bet on a Buxton rebound then Gray is a good pitcher to get. There will be a cost to get him. Gray does have value. Your guess is as good as mine as to what it would cost us to get him.

[mikelink45]

 

We are not one player away from anything.  Acquiring good players, at a cost less than what they may provide you in value, is always a good move.

You are right with what you say, but I debate the total impact.  I am tired of mediocrity and I am ready for us to make a real statement.  I want true improvement, not increments.  When you reach my age you do not want those small improvements that lead to a championship when I reach age 100.

[Thrylos]

It will not hurt the Twins, but they still 2 starters better than Berrios to compete in the postseason, and Gray is not one of them.  If he replaces Odorizzi as the Twins' number 5th starter, and does not cost more than the aforementioned Odorizzi and someone with no future in the organization like Wade or Slegers I am all for it...

[RatherBeGolfing]

I think Gray is a pretty obvious bounceback candidate and the Yankees are basically just looking for any excuse to deal him. If the price is right (aka pretty low in terms of prospects), sure I'd give him a shot. But they still need to do more either way.