Week 2: Vikings @ Packers

[Mr. Brooks]

No one gave him immunity. You said he torpedoed the team based on one game and two players. I wouldn't call that criticism fair at all. It's basically the exact opposite of that.

 

I don't think the Patriots have been the most talented team many seasons, they are just expertly coached and have an all-time great at the most important position on the field. Hell, I think their best team actually lost in the Super Bowl to a significantly inferior team. My point there was that citing a Super Bowl win as the only measure for his work as a GM is also a rather unfair criticism.

 

As of now his Daniel Carlson decision had a major impact on a game already this season. I think it's very fair to call him out for using a 5th round pick on a kicker and not being a sure thing. He also drafted Stephon Diggs with a 5th round pick. When things go wrong, he gets 100% of the blame. When they go right he gets about 5% and the players and coaches get 95%. After the Miracle I don't recall a lot of "Way to go Spielman!" remarks.

 

If you'd like I can detail all the badass moves he's made as GM. I guarantee you it far outweighs the two you are unfairly hyperbolizing right now. If they weren't, we wouldn't be Super Bowl contenders. My only point is not to get too far down the hyperbole path criticizing him, the roster is still really freaking good. And he should get a ton of credit for that and it should temper the criticism at least a bit.

1) I said "potentially" torpedo.

If you don't think those 2 guys have the potential to torpedo the team, then I don't know what game you watched today.

 

2) It's not the only measure. But it's the most important.

The point with the Patriots is that yes, the best talent won't guarantee a SB every year, but it will get you in position enough times to get one or two, or more.

So far his teams have yet to reach that.

 

3) I've praised his acquisitions countless times. Including the aforementioned Diggs, and Thielen, and Hunter, and Elflein, and Rhodes, and on and on.

 

4) I don't give him 100% of the blame. In this very thread I gave plenty of the blame to Zimmer for putting the game in Carlson's hands when I don't think he had to.

I've also defended his decision to pass on oline in the draft in favor of Hughes.

Look back at the Eagles game thread. I gave all blame to Zimmer and the players, all of it. Harrison Smith and Xavier Rhodes are two elite players that suddenly forgot how to play football, that's not Spielman's fault.

 

If i didn't think he's assembled a great roster, i wouldn't care about Carlson and Treadwell.

The otherwise stellar roster is why I criticized him for Carlson and Treadwell.

Again, see the use of the word "potentially".

 

Those two already cost us one game in which Cousins was all world. If they can cost us one game, they can cost us any game. The test is how he responds.

 

Regardless of what happens weeks 3-17, are you comfortable if Carlson has to hit a 40 yard FG to win an NFC Championship game?

If he misses and we lose, is that just bad luck? If Treadwell turns a perfect pass into a pick 6, will that just be bad luck?

 

I'm sorry, but Treadwell being on the field defies explanation. It's been obvious almost since day 1 that he can't play. I'm not going to stop criticizing Spielman for that, it doesn't mean I don't respect the hell out of most of his moves.

[Mike Sixel]

Treadwell is probably a fourth WR.... Which is surprising. He didn't have catch issues at all in college.

 

I'd cut the kicker. The team will never trust him.

 

Cousins made throws I could not believe.

 

They did not play well in the first half, unfortunately.

 

Was the punter slow on the block, it's always hard to see details at the game.

[Vanimal46]

I can see them giving the kicker one more game to figure it out in a low pressure game against Buffalo. He has to be perfect though. No exceptions.

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't know what else to call Treadwell still being on the field when it's been so obvious for so long that he can't play.

 

I don't think Spielman makes the decision about which players go out onto the field. If you're looking to blame someone for Treadwell's playing time, I think you need to aim for DeFilippo

[nicksaviking]

 

I can see them giving the kicker one more game to figure it out in a low pressure game against Buffalo. He has to be perfect though. No exceptions.

 

I don't know, it doesn't seem fair but are any of the players going to trust him in a big spot? I don't care about low pressure spots, it wasn't only the misses, but how absolutely devastated he looked. After his clearly lost confidence, I think Zimmer and Spielman have to ask themselves if they'd trust him to make a kick to win the NFC Championship game. If the answer is anything short of a resounding yes, I think they should move on, if only to show the players that they have their back.

[Vanimal46]

I don't think Spielman makes the decision about which players go out onto the field. If you're looking to blame someone for Treadwell's playing time, I think you need to aim for DeFilippo

I can understand why they're trying to force Treadwell to work... Diggs and Thielen stretch the field very well. Rudolph and Treadwell are supposed to be the dump off possession WRs who catches everything they can within 3-10 yards downfield.

 

Treadwell has the size to supposedly box out and out muscle defenders. It just hasn't worked in real life.

[Badsmerf]

Ok, I'm on the cit Carlson boat now. He was only 23 of 31 in fields goals last year. Why the **** did he get a 5th round draft pick? I don't understand why it is difficult to find kickers. Go to D1 soccer teams, look for tall guys that aren't very fast, and try them out.

[nicksaviking]

 

I can understand why they're trying to force Treadwell to work... Diggs and Thielen stretch the field very well. Rudolph and Treadwell are supposed to be the dump off possession WRs who catches everything they can within 3-10 yards downfield.

Treadwell has the size to supposedly box out and out muscle defenders. It just hasn't worked in real life.

 

Yeah, it looked like Coley got the playing time after Treadwell's brief benching, but I'd think Zylstra might be the one to start getting significant looks in Treadwell's place. He's a big target, and probably faster than Treadwell as well. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Ok, I'm on the cit Carlson boat now. He was only 23 of 31 in fields goals last year. Why the **** did he get a 5th round draft pick? I don't understand why it is difficult to find kickers. Go to D1 soccer teams, look for tall guys that aren't very fast, and try them out.

 

Yeah it was a strange pick. I would have understood it more had they drafted a kicker two years ago after Blair Walsh's meltdown, but it wasn't like Forbath wasn't a more than competent kicker. The only explanation seems to be that for some reason they thought this guy was bound to be an elite kicker in the NFL.

 

So many guys have the physical tools though, if they can't accurately measure the mental strength of a kicker (and that seems unlikely to predict from a college kid) I'd rather they just keep rolling with the Forbath's of the world.

[nicksaviking]

Also, how was the game Mike?

 

I'm guessing leaving was a strange atmosphere for a visiting fan with the tie against the arch rival and all. Or maybe the atmosphere was the same since everyone in Green Bay is accustomed to kissing their sisters.

[SF Twins Fan]

The good thing is the Vikings get to play Buffalo this week, so I could see the Zimmer and Spielmam bringing back Carlson for this week. If he's not 100% then they cut him.

 

I saw this somewhere else but can't find it. It would actually cost the Vikes more to cut Treadwell because he's still on his rookie contact.

 

https://twitter.com/FPC_Vikings/status/1041687622454845442

[USAFChief]

Zylstra led the CFL in receiving yards last year. Outstanding athlete. They signed him for a reason.

 

There is zero reason for Treadwell to see the field again.

 

Baffling.

[Badsmerf]

Who is the German kid again? How is his development going? Sounded like he was an amazing athlete, just raw when I heard about him.

[Vanimal46]

Yeah, it looked like Coley got the playing time after Treadwell's brief benching, but I'd think Zylstra might be the one to start getting significant looks in Treadwell's place. He's a big target, and probably faster than Treadwell as well.

I'm on board with Zylstra getting Treadwell's reps. I was also thinking about this last night - they could move Rudolph into Treadwell's spot and play Morgan more often as a blocking TE to support the OL.

 

Treadwell's routes are not complicated and it's certainly something Rudolph can do.

[TheLeviathan]

Can we practice squad Carlson if we bring in Bailey or Forbath?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Who is the German kid again? How is his development going? Sounded like he was an amazing athlete, just raw when I heard about him.

 

Long gone.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The good thing is the Vikings get to play Buffalo this week, so I could see the Zimmer and Spielmam bringing back Carlson for this week. If he's not 100% then they cut him.

 

I saw this somewhere else but can't find it. It would actually cost the Vikes more to cut Treadwell because he's still on his rookie contact.

 

https://twitter.com/FPC_Vikings/status/1041687622454845442

 

This is correct, they would lose cap room next year.  

 

He's going to stay on the team, the question is what role should he have.  I'd like to see Zylstra, but I'm also not in practice seeing what he is capable of.

 

It should be noted - Treadwell did catch a TD on a decent route where he found the soft spot in the zone.  It's clear Cousins likes him too.  It's a busted pick regardless, but he is a natural outside receiver that allows Thielen to be in the slot.  I'm not sure Zylstra is anything but a slot guy.

[Vanimal46]

Can we practice squad Carlson if we bring in Bailey or Forbath?

I think so, and that may be the best option for us going forward.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm on board with Zylstra getting Treadwell's reps. I was also thinking about this last night - they could move Rudolph into Treadwell's spot and play Morgan more often as a blocking TE to support the OL.

Treadwell's routes are not complicated and it's certainly something Rudolph can do.

 

Yeah, they ran a lot of two TE sets yesterday and Morgan has been getting involved. I'd like to see Conklin the rookie some more as well. I think they need to get him reps because Rudolph isn't cheap, the team is going to have cap issues and I believe he can be cut with no cap hit next year. I think it's quite likely Rudolph will be gone.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't think Spielman makes the decision about which players go out onto the field. If you're looking to blame someone for Treadwell's playing time, I think you need to aim for DeFilippo

Fair on playing time. But he's only on the roster because of draft status. That was my main point regarding Spielman's stubbornness.

He can't play, been crystal clear since almost day one.

[nicksaviking]

***** I moved the last page of the conversation to a new more general Vikings discussion thread seen here:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/31366-2018-vikings-in-season-thread/

[Doomtints]

Word is that Carlson had the yips in his senior year in college, too. This was just a bad pick.

 

Priefer's guys were responsible for a lot of points yesterday, and not in a good way. A blocked punt plus nine points left on the table in missed field goals.

 

It's early in the year but this is what the team needs to be working on.