Article: Awkward Decisions

[ThejacKmp]

 

There's no way Donaldson is getting a 4 yr deal. 

 

He's a real risk. But that's exactly why the Twins would be able to sign him, and it's exactly the type of player they need to target.

 

They're not getting Machado, let's be realistic. Standing pat is no answer, and they can't just bring in a couple minor league free agents and let them battle for the last roster spot.

 

They need significant upgrades at several places in the lineup. They might as well take risks that have a chance of being significant. A healthy Donaldson, and a return to form from Sano, and suddenly your lineup looks a lot different. 

 

An AL team might just go four years and someone will go three for sure. You're buying out the age 33-36 years. The back end isn't great but you're not in the Miguel Cabrera late 30s conundrum. And you have the ability to move him to 1B/DH after the first year or two if health demands it.

 

He's only three years removed from an MVP, two years from a top-5 finish, and is a team leader. There's a lot to like if you look at his medicals and feel comfortable. That's an if of course. Wouldn't hate it for the Twins, they could use a face of the franchise to tide them over as youngsters develop. Not sure the front office will take on that risk though.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Yeah, then we get into the debate ... prospects are just that and unproven until they are proven. I say you have to go with putting together what you can now, long terms contracts included, and deal with the 'log jam' later through trades, releases, whatever. Those prospect are no way guaranteed ... look what we thought of Sano and Buxton, and look where they are now? I'm not giving up on them yet, but it looks a lot less sure. I just don't think we should be putting together teams now, and not signing certain players now because of who might be in the wings. While we can't necessarily do that every year, but this year we have so much flexibility. I want the FO to put a team together for NOW.

 

And I don't consider a 3-yr deal long-term. Long-term will be what Machado will get ... hopefully from us!

 

I get that to a point. I'm not avoiding starting pitching because I have Gonsalves or Romero or Thorpe. I have huge hopes for those guys but if someone's there, you solve that problem later.

 

But Lewis is a #1 overall draft pick who is rocketing through the minors and getting comparisons to Correia and Lindor. That's not a guy you put a roadblock in front of - even if you can move him to CF, do you really want to delay his MLB time teaching him a new position? 

 

Yeah you could move Polanco and trade Arraez but the Twins aren't the Yankees. They need some homegrown talent to serve as the base for their free agency decisions. I'm just not convinced that targeting a free agent 3B option makes the most sense. I'd rather they leave Sano at 3B, target pitching in free agency, and bring in a stopgap (Mauer or others) at 1B while waiting for guys like Rooker, AK, Larnach and Baddoo to develop,

 

I guess I'm less focused on now. The Twins are entering a nice window and I'd like to see them Cubs it by going after pitching to augment young position player talent.

[USAFChief]

 

An AL team might just go four years and someone will go three for sure. You're buying out the age 33-36 years. The back end isn't great but you're not in the Miguel Cabrera late 30s conundrum. And you have the ability to move him to 1B/DH after the first year or two if health demands it.

 

He's only three years removed from an MVP, two years from a top-5 finish, and is a team leader. There's a lot to like if you look at his medicals and feel comfortable. That's an if of course. Wouldn't hate it for the Twins, they could use a face of the franchise to tide them over as youngsters develop. Not sure the front office will take on that risk though.

And that part, I admit, I have zero clue on.

 

But unless it's bad, if I'm GM, I go hard after him. The Twins need impact bats. Stat.

 

Similar in my mind to Adrian Beltre coming off his Seattle deal. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If this team is going to get a full time DH, he better be OPS'ing +.800. And if he's only DH'ing because the team has to use a 1B who can't OPS +.800 than it's still wasting a roster spot.

 

If we were all cheering for a different team who was in the exact same position we find our Twins in now, let's say this was a Blue Jays site, would we be talking about bringing in Joe Mauer?

well, not sure about Blue Jays, but if this was a different player not named Mauer, then probably yes?

 

This site loves one-year deals -- never any downside to them. Unless it's Mauer.

[Kelly Vance]

 

Question for the pro "call up Buxton" crowd: What happens if he comes up and hits terribly in September? Frankly, that's a pretty likely scenario in my mind. It's nice that he's crushing Triple-A pitching (as a 24-year-old) while swinging at everything but there is little evidence that approach is gonna work for him in the majors. 

 

If this happens, how could we look back at the decision as anything more than an epic blunder, giving up a year of control so he could come back and struggle for like 40-50 PAs? 

 

Personally, I think the work he puts in during the offseason far outweighs whatever value he'll get from starting sporadically for three weeks in September. And I'd just as soon let him get started early on that. 

My answer to your questions is  "So what?"

 

It is never an "epic blunder" to play your best guys.  Buck is our best outfielder. Period.  He has some hitting habits he needs to fix, but if he is healthy, as soon as his timing is down he comes up.

 

You don't treat these guys like cattle. You treat them like family and make them want to sign long term extensions.  

 

[Squirrel]

 

I get that to a point. I'm not avoiding starting pitching because I have Gonsalves or Romero or Thorpe. I have huge hopes for those guys but if someone's there, you solve that problem later.

 

But Lewis is a #1 overall draft pick who is rocketing through the minors and getting comparisons to Correia and Lindor. That's not a guy you put a roadblock in front of - even if you can move him to CF, do you really want to delay his MLB time teaching him a new position? 

 

Yeah you could move Polanco and trade Arraez but the Twins aren't the Yankees. They need some homegrown talent to serve as the base for their free agency decisions. I'm just not convinced that targeting a free agent 3B option makes the most sense. I'd rather they leave Sano at 3B, target pitching in free agency, and bring in a stopgap (Mauer or others) at 1B while waiting for guys like Rooker, AK, Larnach and Baddoo to develop,

 

I guess I'm less focused on now. The Twins are entering a nice window and I'd like to see them Cubs it by going after pitching to augment young position player talent.

Buxton went through the minors in a similar fashion ... maybe not quite, but close, except for injury; and Buxton came in at a No. 1 over all prospect rating for a couple of years in a row; and Sano came in at single digits, like 3 or 5, I believe ... Lewis has yet to come close to that, and likely won't. I'm not sure where you are getting the comparisons to Correia and Lindor because everything I've seen about him doesn't even project him staying at short, which is another big reason not to count on that chicken until it's hatched. I'll admit, the kid has me hoping for good things, and he's a very nice prospect, no doubts or complaints from me on that, but, that's a few years away and I think we can afford to deal with that when/if it happens. Again, you are planning seasons for the next couple of years around these guys making a big league impact some day. Some day is for certain not 2019, and if we have the chance to get a really great, impactful player now, for several years, we should not say no because of some day.

[Jham]

My answer to your questions is "So what?"

 

It is never an "epic blunder" to play your best guys. Buck is our best outfielder. Period. He has some hitting habits he needs to fix, but if he is healthy, as soon as his timing is down he comes up.

 

You don't treat these guys like cattle. You treat them like family and make them want to sign long term extensions.

Well then Cave and Grossman should be treated like family also? They both deserve every at bat for the work they've put in this year. More so than Buxton at this point. Imo.

[nicksaviking]

 

well, not sure about Blue Jays, but if this was a different player not named Mauer, then probably yes?

This site loves one-year deals -- never any downside to them. Unless it's Mauer.

 

The downside isn't the player. The downside is not being able to remove that player from the equation if/when needed.

 

People like 1 year deals because they aren't a commitment, we've seen plenty of times that a GM will cut bait with a bad one year deal mid-season.

 

Unless he's a franchise icon. If the Blue Jays signed Joe Mauer and he was OPS'ing .700 and there were better or younger options that could take his spot they'd release him. Will the Twins?

[ThejacKmp]

 

Buxton went through the minors in a similar fashion ... maybe not quite, but close, except for injury; and Buxton came in at a No. 1 over all prospect rating for a couple of years in a row; and Sano came in at single digits, like 3 or 5, I believe ... Lewis has yet to come close to that, and likely won't. I'm not sure where you are getting the comparisons to Correia and Lindor because everything I've seen about him doesn't even project him staying at short, which is another big reason not to count on that chicken until it's hatched. I'll admit, the kid has me hoping for good things, and he's a very nice prospect, no doubts or complaints from me on that, but, that's a few years away and I think we can afford to deal with that when/if it happens. Again, you are planning seasons for the next couple of years around these guys making a big league impact some day. Some day is for certain not 2019, and if we have the chance to get a really great, impactful player now, for several years, we should not say no because of some day.

 

Numerous articles on TD compare him favorable to those two. I know Seth or Nick wrote one comparing the pace and stats those three put up in imagining Lewis's future path - Lewis's stats have compared favorably with those two to this point. And scouts have moved away from saying he'll have to move positions and think he can stick at short for the time being.

 

I think Buxton is a prime example. Just because the results aren't up to par doesn't mean the process was wrong. You wouldn't want to have signed three free agent outfielders because then you'd have Buxton tearing up AAA and having no room in the majors (outfield is harder to compare because you have three spots but you get my meaning). 

 

Planning a team involves making choices. There aren't infinite resources. That means balancing the present need and future needs. Teams that try to focus on the present too strongly (like the Padres' shopping spree five years back or KC not moving its core to rebuild it's farm system) tend to face long rebuilds.

 

The Twins have money to spend but the question isn't "What makes us better in 2019?" They need to take into consideration organization strengths and weaknesses when making free agent decisions. Catching and starting pitching are weaknesses while middle infield and outfield just aren't. Investing in long-term assets at those positons should only be done if the value is great (e.g. Machado, Harper)

 

This isn't something simple like "Go get the best player." The Twins need to think in five and ten year increments, not just one year.

[ThejacKmp]

 

The downside isn't the player. The downside is not being able to remove that player from the equation if/when needed.

 

People like 1 year deals because they aren't a commitment, we've seen plenty of times that a GM will cut bait with a bad one year deal mid-season.

 

Unless he's a franchise icon. 

 

Joe Mauer is in no way why the Twins didn't compete this year. Blame falls on a lot of guys before Mauer: Dozier, Sano, Buxton, Santana, Polanco, Castro, Lynn, Kepler, Reed, etc. Let's tone down the awful consequences of Joe Mauer putting butts in seats.

 

Mauer is not the detriment you make him out to be. He's having an average year after having a nice year last year.

[ThejacKmp]

 

And that part, I admit, I have zero clue on.

 

But unless it's bad, if I'm GM, I go hard after him. The Twins need impact bats. Stat.

 

Similar in my mind to Adrian Beltre coming off his Seattle deal. 

 

Wouldn't hate Donaldson and Escobar, even if that means Joe doesn't make sense for the team. But I'm not interested in anything like a Kinsler or a Moustakas. Sano at 3B makes sense unless the Twins can get a Machado or a deemed-healthy-Donaldson. 

[Squirrel]

 

Numerous articles on TD compare him favorable to those two. I know Seth or Nick wrote one comparing the pace and stats those three put up in imagining Lewis's future path - Lewis's stats have compared favorably with those two to this point. And scouts have moved away from saying he'll have to move positions and think he can stick at short for the time being.

 

I think Buxton is a prime example. Just because the results aren't up to par doesn't mean the process was wrong. You wouldn't want to have signed three free agent outfielders because then you'd have Buxton tearing up AAA and having no room in the majors (outfield is harder to compare because you have three spots but you get my meaning). 

 

Planning a team involves making choices. There aren't infinite resources. That means balancing the present need and future needs. Teams that try to focus on the present too strongly (like the Padres' shopping spree five years back or KC not moving its core to rebuild it's farm system) tend to face long rebuilds.

 

The Twins have money to spend but the question isn't "What makes us better in 2019?" They need to take into consideration organization strengths and weaknesses when making free agent decisions. Catching and starting pitching are weaknesses while middle infield and outfield just aren't. Investing in long-term assets at those positons should only be done if the value is great (e.g. Machado, Harper)

 

This isn't something simple like "Go get the best player." The Twins need to think in five and ten year increments, not just one year.

Of course it's not that simple. But they have a unique position of having a decent farm system AND a LOT of financial flexibility. Now is the time to jump on a few players to add to what strengths we currently have and will (hopefully) have in the future, now is the time to UPGRADE and not just sit at 'adequate' because these guys in the minors will some day make a difference.

 

And Buxton is a PRIME example of expecting him to be tearing it up in the majors based on minor league projections and scouting. His projections were even higher than Lewis', being ranked the No. 1 over all prospect for a couple of years ... and look where he is now ... we are uncertain. It goes to show you that having the No. 1 over all rated prospect is not a guarantee of anything. He may still be that ... but we are still waiting for it. Are we supposed to wait until the next wave of 'sure thing' prospects to not end up being sure things?

 

And I never said 'Go get the best player' (well, outside of Machado ... which I have also said is an impossible dream, but one I'm going to hold onto until he's signed long-term elsewhere) ... I said get the best player you can, and upgrade when you can. I think what some of you consider an 'upgrade' is far from my definition of an upgrade.

[Winston Smith]

Joe was a great player at one time but that that was many years ago. If this team is serious about building a strong post season team it won't waste a roster spot on a 36 year old part time replacement level player. Time to move on and get serious about building the future of this team.

[Kelly Vance]

 

Well then Cave and Grossman should be treated like family also? They both deserve every at bat for the work they've put in this year. More so than Buxton at this point. Imo.

 

I think you miss my point. I am talking about cornerstone players and wanting to attract FA players that are studs, not utility guys. I am talking about building block players, not marginals and bubble players that are lucky to have a job. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

 

Grossman is a AAA player who get the Kubel treatment. Does he deserve loyalty? Sure. And nobody would say the Twins have cheated that guy. He is about as good as thousands of guys who are playing slow pitch softball.

 

But he is a marginal bubble player, not a guy with otherwordly talent like Buck.  If he could catch a fly without spiking himself, I'd be more generous.

 

My point is: When you want to attract good players, difference makers,  (Grossman not being really one of those) you make them feel wanted. You don't exploit them or treat them like cattle. Guys on the bubble, well, they aren't difference makers. I mean, does anybody really care if Grossman walks?  

 

Cave is a 4th outfielder. I like him, but I wouldn't want him to necessarily sign a long term extension. We got other guys coming up. These guys, I would sign to long termers

 

Sano, Buck, Eddie, Polanco, Berrios, Gibby,

 

Less so but ok with Keps, maybe Austin

 

Waiting for the payoff?   Romero, Gonsalves,

 

Short term extensions:   Castro (if he returns healthy), Mauer,  

 

My point is that it is really, really dumb to treat star caliber guys like misfits.  Just try telling your wife she is "good field, no hit"  and see how passionate she is after that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

The QO is a big part. I've been reading that he likely won't get one. The Jays wanna bring up Vlad Jr. and they worry that Donaldson might take the QO since it would basically be a one-year prove-it contract and he'd know the QO would suppress his value on the market and keep him from getting that long-term deal. I'd be surprised if the Jays were willing to risk that for a draft pick, no matter how nice that extra pick is.

 

I also wonder what the market will be like. So many teams will talk themselves into Harper and Machado and be in on that - how many of them will restrain themselves when those two go to the Yankees? (kidding. Kind of.) Someone's going to go after the next tier and you can definitely talk yourself into Donaldson for 3-4 years.

 

It'll be interesting.

If you think Donaldson is likely to get 3-4 years -- what's the risk to the Jays on a QO? Seems like he would be sure to turn it down. Or if he did accept, he'd be an asset on a 1/18 deal (which would actually represent a pay cut from his 2018 salary).

[Jham]

I think you miss my point. I am talking about cornerstone players and wanting to attract FA players that are studs, not utility guys. I am talking about building block players, not marginals and bubble players that are lucky to have a job. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

 

Grossman is a AAA player who get the Kubel treatment. Does he deserve loyalty? Sure. And nobody would say the Twins have cheated that guy. He is about as good as thousands of guys who are playing slow pitch softball.

 

But he is a marginal bubble player, not a guy with otherwordly talent like Buck. If he could catch a fly without spiking himself, I'd be more generous.

 

My point is: When you want to attract good players, difference makers, (Grossman not being really one of those) you make them feel wanted. You don't exploit them or treat them like cattle. Guys on the bubble, well, they aren't difference makers. I mean, does anybody really care if Grossman walks?

 

Cave is a 4th outfielder. I like him, but I wouldn't want him to necessarily sign a long term extension. We got other guys coming up. These guys, I would sign to long termers

 

Sano, Buck, Eddie, Polanco, Berrios, Gibby,

 

Less so but ok with Keps, maybe Austin

 

Waiting for the payoff? Romero, Gonsalves,

 

Short term extensions: Castro (if he returns healthy), Mauer,

 

My point is that it is really, really dumb to treat star caliber guys like misfits. Just try telling your wife she is "good field, no hit" and see how passionate she is after that.

I think what you're referring to is entitlement or scholarship. I think that has gotten us to trouble in the past. My guess is that Cave and Grossman have some friends on the team. Seeing Buxton get outplayed by those "easily replaceable" guys and still get his spot back might rub some players the wrong way. If Buxton can't appreciate that, then I would have to question his maturity, and I would argue keeping him down to try to teach him a lesson would be even more warranted. A lot has been made of the mistake of trying Sano out in right field. However twins staff was on the record as believing that the move would help him keep his weight under control and be a better overall player, as well as a team first move. Taking Sano's side over others' in the organization might have set back his development. Sure we can try to protect young stars, however we shouldn't coddle them. If Buxton was playing really well to begin the year, I'd agree with you. But he doesn't deserve to play over guys who've battled their tails off all year and outperformed him. Cave could have a better career than Buck. Grossman has to show he deserves a chance to stay on the game.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

The downside isn't the player. The downside is not being able to remove that player from the equation if/when needed.

 

People like 1 year deals because they aren't a commitment, we've seen plenty of times that a GM will cut bait with a bad one year deal mid-season.

 

Unless he's a franchise icon. If the Blue Jays signed Joe Mauer and he was OPS'ing .700 and there were better or younger options that could take his spot they'd release him. Will the Twins?

Well, what I'm trying to say is if Joe Mauer didn't exist, but there was a player available in free agency this winter who is one year removed from an .800 OPS, still gets on base above average, plays gold glove defense, even at 36, and is open to a one year deal as platoon partner or bridge to Rooker, this place would eat that up. That signing would get high praise here. 

[Mr. Brooks]

I think what you're referring to is entitlement or scholarship. I think that has gotten us to trouble in the past. My guess is that Cave and Grossman have some friends on the team. Seeing Buxton get outplayed by those "easily replaceable" guys and still get his spot back might rub some players the wrong way. If Buxton can't appreciate that, then I would have to question his maturity, and I would argue keeping him down to try to teach him a lesson would be even more warranted. A lot has been made of the mistake of trying Sano out in right field. However twins staff was on the record as believing that the move would help him keep his weight under control and be a better overall player, as well as a team first move. Taking Sano's side over others' in the organization might have set back his development. Sure we can try to protect young stars, however we shouldn't coddle them. If Buxton was playing really well to begin the year, I'd agree with you. But he doesn't deserve to play over guys who've battled their tails off all year and outperformed him. Cave could have a better career than Buck. Grossman has to show he deserves a chance to stay on the game.

I'm as frustrated by Buxton's season as anyone. But, it's fair to note that at age 24, Buxton has almost 3 times as many mlb WAR as Grossman has in his career.

[Kelly Vance]

 

I think what you're referring to is entitlement or scholarship. I think that has gotten us to trouble in the past. My guess is that Cave and Grossman have some friends on the team. Seeing Buxton get outplayed by those "easily replaceable" guys and still get his spot back might rub some players the wrong way. If Buxton can't appreciate that, then I would have to question his maturity, and I would argue keeping him down to try to teach him a lesson would be even more warranted. A lot has been made of the mistake of trying Sano out in right field. However twins staff was on the record as believing that the move would help him keep his weight under control and be a better overall player, as well as a team first move. Taking Sano's side over others' in the organization might have set back his development. Sure we can try to protect young stars, however we shouldn't coddle them. If Buxton was playing really well to begin the year, I'd agree with you. But he doesn't deserve to play over guys who've battled their tails off all year and outperformed him. Cave could have a better career than Buck. Grossman has to show he deserves a chance to stay on the game.

Entitlement isn't the word exactly. There is a saying that you shouldn't lose your position because of injury. Yeah, well, tell that to Wally Pipp.  If a better guy comes along, well, that's showbiz. 

 

This isn't about giving Bux anything. He's earned it. He broke his foot and played hurt to entertain you. Nobody needs to teach him a lesson. Guys that dive for balls don't have bad attitudes, as a rule. And guys who lack heart do not run as hard as Buck did on a broken foot.  Unfortunately he started trying to compensate for the foot and it screwed up his swing. Easy to see. Nobody "outplayed" him, and certainly not Grossman. 

 

Meanwhile, they let his foot heal and he is playing again. When he is ready, timing wise, meaning his swing, not contract stuff, he should come up.  Buck doesn't need to earn a spot at this point. He is not just our starting center fielder, he is the best center fielder in the entire sport. In fact he is the platinum glove winner for all of baseball last year. You don't see that as starter caliber but the rest of baseball sees it as All Star Caliber. Platinum glove means best in baseball. That is not a AAA player. By the way, this honor was well deserved. He worked his butt off last year earning it. Don't forget all that. 

 

Buck is not Willy Mays, but he is as good a fielder as Willy ever was. He has 50 + steal potential, if he could learn to get on base. He was only thrown out like once last year in something like 30 tries. Carew needs to teach him how to bunt. That would add 30 hits a year.

 

My point is that this guy has potential high above the clouds on a "best in baseball" level. Those other guys you mention are just, well, other guys. 

 

I'm not handing out scholarships. But Buck has earned it, crashing into the wall and diving for catches just for your entertainment for several years now. He is one of the brightest stars in the game and I want to see him play, as soon as he is up to it. You don't treat a guy like him as if he is a minor leaguer on the bubble. 

 

Anyway, I have an ulterior motive. After showing I won't try to leverage him on the 1 year of control thing, I would ask him for something. I'd offer him 5 years at a fair price and see if he won't do it.  If he wants to come up and you leverage him to gain a year of control, you guarantee he will leave as soon as he can.No way he signs an extension then.  

 

As for Sano, trying him in right field was the dumbest move ever.   It raised eyebrows throughout baseball, and for good reason. The only reason they tried it was they liked Trevor, and he had no trade value. 

 

But I want to end on a positive note. Sano is slimmer and I think he will have a monster 2019. Buck needs to get himself right, and hopefully will in Minnesota this fall. Then he bounces back too. We have Polanco back, and for a full year. Eddie is back, and Keps and Mauer (hopefully) and Castro.  Not a bad lineup. We need to figure out 2b. I am optimistic that EE will be back. 

 

Cave, Ehire and Garver as subs. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Or maybe the September snub is enough for him to turn it around. It seemed to work for Dozier.

Thinking more about this -- did it turn around Dozier? Defensively, he didn't turn it around at shortstop -- he was moved to second base the following spring. He also didn't turn around with the bat until ~2 months into the following season, when he made the infamous adjustment to become the Dozier that we all know and love.

 

Also, Dozier struggled at AAA that season where we didn't recall him in September. He wasn't demoted until mid-August and then posted a .499 OPS over 20 games in Rochester. Seems to be a very different situation altogether from Buxton, who as lost as he looked earlier this year, only had 94 PA in MLB in 2018, and he has been hitting well overall at AAA even if the K/BB rates aren't too good. Dozier was a rookie who had a bad year across both levels, which seems like an easier spot to say "stay home." It also appears Dozier went to winter ball for a few games?

 

Dozier's situation as seems similar to Hicks in 2013 -- bad rookie season in MLB, demoted to AAA in August, hit .235/.339/.373 in 15 games down there, wasn't recalled, but they made him the opening day CF again in 2014. Not sure if the 2012-2014 Twins should be held up as models of player development...

[beckmt]

 

What do Royce or Kirilloff have to do with anything? And Mauer won't be expensive at all. If we don't sign Polanco, he won't be a reason why

Comment was to sign Escobar,  Twins payroll will probably be down next year, and I would rather see a major investment in pitching and with players with potential than to pay Mauer what he is going to want.  I would like to see Joe win a world championship with a club, do not think he will be here when the Twins make there move.

[yarnivek1972]

Well, what I'm trying to say is if Joe Mauer didn't exist, but there was a player available in free agency this winter who is one year removed from an .800 OPS, still gets on base above average, plays gold glove defense, even at 36, and is open to a one year deal as platoon partner or bridge to Rooker, this place would eat that up. That signing would get high praise here.

I think the general consensus would be that said 36 year old player has had one season with an OPS above .752 in the last 5.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think the general consensus would be that said 36 year old player has had one season with an OPS above .752 in the last 5.

That's fair. If Mauer was a free agent from another org, I think I might view him not unlike Forsythe in some ways. We could aim higher, although he could also fit on a cheap short deal under the right circumstances.

 

I suspect he will retire, though, and I wouldn't try to change his mind about it.

[ewen21]

 

 

I'm terrified Mauer's going to suffer another head injury in some freak way that ends up being life-altering, so I'll be happy either way.

And there it is right there.

 

For that it makes NO SENSE for him to keep on playing and less for the Twins to keep on paying him to play baseball.  Anyone who insists he get re-signed?  THe blood is on your hands if that happens.  THat is all I am gonna say about that.

 

As far as Buxton goes, he was unnecessarily pedestalized and now we have people who simply can't admit they might have been wrong about his talent.  No way in heck is he the generational player some boldly made him out to be.  I do not begrudge anyone their opinion, but if a Buxton critic is going to get savaged for ripping the kid then that isn't fair.  He is a lightweight on offense and things need to change.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think the general consensus would be that said 36 year old player has had one season with an OPS above .752 in the last 5.

haha well, people were climbing on top of each other to praise the Logan Morrison signing, and Morrison was 30 with just one good season, ever, period.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

That's fair. If Mauer was a free agent from another org, I think I might view him not unlike Forsythe in some ways. We could aim higher, although he could also fit on a cheap short deal under the right circumstances.

I suspect he will retire, though, and I wouldn't try to change his mind about it.

Possibly. That was an interesting anecdote by a poster upthread, though I am confident Mauer in his heart wants to keep playing. But I could see him being talked into retirement by his loved ones.

[ThejacKmp]

 

If you think Donaldson is likely to get 3-4 years -- what's the risk to the Jays on a QO? Seems like he would be sure to turn it down. Or if he did accept, he'd be an asset on a 1/18 deal (which would actually represent a pay cut from his 2018 salary).

 

They have a hotshot third base prospect. They don't want to have Donaldson in front of him, blocking him.

 

I didn't conjecture this, do some googling. Sources close to the Jays are indicating they won't QO him. I guess you could move him to first if he accepted but maybe the Jays have guys there - don't know them well enough to say.

 

QO would be killer for Donaldson. Really hate that QO, it seems designed to F with the market.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Of course it's not that simple. But they have a unique position of having a decent farm system AND a LOT of financial flexibility. Now is the time to jump on a few players to add to what strengths we currently have and will (hopefully) have in the future, now is the time to UPGRADE and not just sit at 'adequate' because these guys in the minors will some day make a difference.

 

And Buxton is a PRIME example of expecting him to be tearing it up in the majors based on minor league projections and scouting. His projections were even higher than Lewis', being ranked the No. 1 over all prospect for a couple of years ... and look where he is now ... we are uncertain. It goes to show you that having the No. 1 over all rated prospect is not a guarantee of anything. He may still be that ... but we are still waiting for it. Are we supposed to wait until the next wave of 'sure thing' prospects to not end up being sure things?

 

And I never said 'Go get the best player' (well, outside of Machado ... which I have also said is an impossible dream, but one I'm going to hold onto until he's signed long-term elsewhere) ... I said get the best player you can, and upgrade when you can. I think what some of you consider an 'upgrade' is far from my definition of an upgrade.

 

No prospect is certain but for the best ones you have to give them an open runway to take off. Do they crash sometimes? Sure. But that doesn't mean you close the runway next time. (That's actually a terrible analogy. They would totally close the runway if a plane crashed. Oh well.)

 

I agree on Machado and actually Harper too. Though I doubt the Twins will be playing ball in that area. I just think they should be in on starting pitching rather than infielders. They have enough to go into next year reasonably optimistic.

[ThejacKmp]

 

I suspect he will retire, though, and I wouldn't try to change his mind about it.

 

Ooh! Prediction time! I like this.

 

I think he'll come back for one more year but announce its his last relatively early in the process. I think he wants one more shot at the playoffs and I think the Twins will have a role for him as a more strictly platooned first base/DH.

 

Bonus prediction. He will get that shot at the playoffs.

[Doctor Wu]

 

What would be the consequences? I could see free agents viewing Minnesota as (even more) undesirable and current Twins ruling out extension talks. I'm guessing this front office doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation among the guys in the clubhouse. This would make that even worse. It could even impact things all the way down to the draft.

Amidst all the conjecture about Mauer and Buxton, this comment really struck me. How tarnished do you think the front office's reputation has become in the past year? I have no inside knowledge to know as to whether that's accurate or not, I'm just curious. And if they have garnered a bad rep in so short a period of time, I think we should all be worried.