September...?

[David HK]

 

OK, this is one hell of a sad song, by one of my favorite singers- but I'd reckon it's been somewhat of a sad and silly season for the Twinks this year.

 

I'm just throwing this out there, and please add your own thoughts to this little thread.

 

What do you want to see (or not see) in September? To say the Minnesota Nine has under-performed this year is not an understatement. That we're not catching Cleveland has been evident since before the break. That we're not going to seriously threaten (in Bert's words) 'Five Hunnerd,' is pretty well plain to see by now, too. 

 

So, it's time for auditions. I know this goes against MoY's thoughts of playing game 7 of the Series every day, but there's been plenty of banter about seeing what we've got in the young (and not-so-young) critters on the farm. I'm all in favor of giving as many of 'em as much of a look as possible. So here begins my list:

 

I DON'T wanna see: 1 more inning from Addison Reed, (DL!) Mike McGill, or Matt Belisle (DFA). We've got enough arms to take a look at when Roch ends their season, any minute now. I think La Maquina should be shut down, sooner rather than later, see above comment. Let Stewart, Gonsalves, and Romero take as many starts as they can.

I DON'T wanna see 1 more At bat from Robbie Grossman, or Bobby Wilson, and by Gum, no more Ehire Adrianza at 1B. Get Wade up here for a look, and run with Garver and Astudillo the rest of the way. And, not as strongly, but I'm fine not seeing Bux this year, either.

As much as I DO wanna see a new face in the dugout, I'm resigned to waiting til the season ends.

 

Thoughts?

[Jham]

I want to see the team look truly prepared to compete next season. I want Sano dialed in. I want Buxton shelved like Dozier was before he broke out. I want 2 bull pen game per week where Stewart, gonsalves, Thorpe, Romero, and Mejia take turns. I want to see who can embrace the competition and handle pitching relief. I want to be able to make some hard cuts based on some head to head performance. Mejia or Moya? Stewart or Duffy? Romero, Hilde, or May as closer?

 

I also want the Twins to take advantage of their August waiver position and trade for a meaningful piece prior to the off-season.

[ChrisKnutson]

This just came to mind, but with Machado being the crown jewel of the 2019 FA class, could Sano (in terms of controllability) be the backup option to all the teams that miss out on Manny. If so, then I’d say go for it because I’m sick of his underperformance (on multiple levels) and everyone making excuses for him.

 

Look we’ve been spinning our wheels for awhile now, and haven’t gotten any closer to a WS appearance, maybe we should rebuild and follow what the Rays have been doing.

[Fritzderkat]

>maybe we should rebuild and follow what the Rays have been doing.

Now, there's an idea!

[SwainZag]

 

  On 8/27/2018 at 7:44 PM, ChrisKnutson said:

This just came to mind, but with Machado being the crown jewel of the 2019 FA class, could Sano (in terms of controllability) be the backup option to all the teams that miss out on Manny. If so, then I’d say go for it because I’m sick of his underperformance (on multiple levels) and everyone making excuses for him.

Look we’ve been spinning our wheels for awhile now, and haven’t gotten any closer to a WS appearance, maybe we should rebuild and follow what the Rays have been doing.

 

That would be a very past past Twins thing to do.  Trade a guy with superstar potential when his value is at the lowest.  So.....let's not do this.

[ChrisKnutson]

  On 8/27/2018 at 7:56 PM, SwainZag said:

That would be a very past past Twins thing to do.  Trade a guy with superstar potential when his value is at the lowest.  So.....let's not do this.

I doubt we’re the only one’s who see that superstar potential, that’s what teams would be trading for.

[yarnivek1972]

  On 8/27/2018 at 8:04 PM, ChrisKnutson said:

I doubt we’re the only one’s who see that superstar potential, that’s what teams would be trading for.

But no way is any team going to trade that kind of value right now.

[mazeville]

 

  On 8/27/2018 at 7:12 PM, Jham said:

I want to see the team look truly prepared to compete next season. I want Sano dialed in. I want Buxton shelved like Dozier was before he broke out. I

 

No.

 

Much of Buxton's problems this year have been injury related, not performance related. The only way that he should not be allowed to come back up in September is if somehow his wrist cannot handle the bat.

 

He needs to get up and get some at-bats against major league pitching this year. He cannot wait until next spring to see major league breaking balls.

 

This is not remotely a Dozier situation.

[birddog]

If Buck does not come up this season, do we have another season of control? If so, let him end his season with Rochester. From all accounts he is a hard worker and is doing all he can to end his slump, but maybe he just needs to regroup mentally from his abysmal season. Not sure if he plays winter ball, but maybe that would help. I still think (mostly hope) that he will be at least close to the star that we hoped he would be, and another year of control when he reaches that potential will hopefully allow Twins to sign him to a long term contract without the fear he reverts to this year's floor.

 

We have to see what we have in Tyler Austin. He may be at his ceiling right now. We know his floor could be 20 floors lower than his ceiling, but what can we expect from an average season from him? Play him at 1B, play him in the OF. But play him every day.

[ChrisKnutson]

  On 8/27/2018 at 9:13 PM, yarnivek1972 said:

But no way is any team going to trade that kind of value right now.

You never know, teams really value controllability nowadays. I mean, who’d you rather invest in Donaldson or Sano?

 

From the Twin’s perspective, just giving Sano away for nothing would obviously be a bad idea, but for the right price it’d definitely be something to consider.

 

And yeah, maybe Sano is not dealt, but I guarantee you the FO will be getting calls on Sano.

[Mr. Brooks]

  On 8/27/2018 at 10:06 PM, ChrisKnutson said:

You never know, teams really value controllability nowadays. I mean, who’d you rather invest in Donaldson or Sano?

 

From the Twin’s perspective, just giving Sano away for nothing would obviously be a bad idea, but for the right price it’d definitely be something to consider.

 

And yeah, maybe Sano is not dealt, but I guarantee you the FO will be getting calls on Sano.

But they'll be getting calls looking to see if his rough season equates to a bargain.

[rv78]

 

  On 8/27/2018 at 7:12 PM, Jham said:

I want to see the team look truly prepared to compete next season. I want Sano dialed in. I want Buxton shelved like Dozier was before he broke out. I want 2 bull pen game per week where Stewart, gonsalves, Thorpe, Romero, and Mejia take turns. I want to see who can embrace the competition and handle pitching relief. I want to be able to make some hard cuts based on some head to head performance. Mejia or Moya? Stewart or Duffy? Romero, Hilde, or May as closer?

I also want the Twins to take advantage of their August waiver position and trade for a meaningful piece prior to the off-season.

 

I have seen enough of Duffey that he can be DFA as well. Hilde is starting to struggle because since the departure of Pressly he has become the favorite out of the pen by Molitor and is being used too much. I agree that Berrios should be shut down. He's looked rough the last 3 starts. The season could be wearing on him. Let's go with a rotation of Romero, Gonzalvez, Mejia, Stewart, and Gibson. A bullpen of Busenitz, Hilde, May, Moya, Rogers, Odorizzi and Thorpe or Curtis. So, like stated above, no Belisle, McGill, Reed, and add Duff and Drake. 

[ChrisKnutson]

  On 8/27/2018 at 10:12 PM, Mr. Brooks said:

But they'll be getting calls looking to see if his rough season equates to a bargain.

You’re probably right, but if the Yankees lose the WC game and Machado, I could see them (out desperation) coughing up top prospects for Sano.

[bluechipper]

 

  On 8/28/2018 at 12:20 AM, ChrisKnutson said:

You’re probably right, but if the Yankees lose the WC game and Machado, I could see them (out desperation) coughing up top prospects for Sano.

The Yankees have a rookie 3B hitting over .300 with an .862 OPS. They might be looking for some starters, but they're set offensively, even if they miss on the big free agents I think.

[Otto von Ballpark]

  On 8/28/2018 at 12:20 AM, ChrisKnutson said:

You’re probably right, but if the Yankees lose the WC game and Machado, I could see them (out desperation) coughing up top prospects for Sano.

I'm not sure how you see that at all. What in the Yankees recent history would suggest they would give up "top prospects" for a guy coming off a 87 OPS+ with negative defensive value?

 

The Yankees already have 3 infielders who are probably more valuable, as infielders, than Sano at the present time. If they happen to target Machado and miss out, I think they would be plenty happy to go after Harper, Grandal, and/or pitching instead.

[ChrisKnutson]

  On 8/28/2018 at 12:40 AM, spycake said:

I'm not sure how you see that at all. What in the Yankees recent history would suggest they would give up "top prospects" for a guy coming off a 87 OPS+ with negative defensive value?

The Yankees already have 3 infielders who are probably more valuable, as infielders, than Sano at the present time. If they happen to target Machado and miss out, I think they would be plenty happy to go after Harper, Grandal, and/or pitching instead.

If anything, acquiring Sano might be the most cost effective option for New York, because he’d not only be a significant upgrade (in terms of talent) to Greg Bird at 1st, but his affordability would also allow Cashman the luxury of signing 2 impact starters, like Corbin and Keuchel.

 

All I’m trying to say is that Sano could “possibly” bring back a couple of New York’s top prospects, not their entire farm system, geez.

[mngopherguy]

 

  On 8/28/2018 at 1:45 AM, ChrisKnutson said:

If anything, acquiring Sano might be the most cost effective option for New York, because he’d not only be a significant upgrade (in terms of talent) to Greg Bird at 1st, but his affordability would also allow Cashman the luxury of signing 2 impact starters, like Corbin and Keuchel.

All I’m trying to say is that Sano could “possibly” bring back a couple of New York’s top prospects, not their entire farm system, geez.

 

Even if he were to bring back a couple top prospects, you still are trading him near an all time low value. Unless the Twins truly think this is all he will be, I think it's a mistake to trade Sano now.  

 

[Riverbrian]

 

  On 8/28/2018 at 1:45 AM, ChrisKnutson said:

If anything, acquiring Sano might be the most cost effective option for New York, because he’d not only be a significant upgrade (in terms of talent) to Greg Bird at 1st, but his affordability would also allow Cashman the luxury of signing 2 impact starters, like Corbin and Keuchel.

All I’m trying to say is that Sano could “possibly” bring back a couple of New York’s top prospects, not their entire farm system, geez.

 

Wouldn't that require Cashman ignoring Sano's 2018 production and not ignoring Bird's 2018 production at the same time. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

  On 8/28/2018 at 1:45 AM, ChrisKnutson said:

If anything, acquiring Sano might be the most cost effective option for New York, because he’d not only be a significant upgrade (in terms of talent) to Greg Bird at 1st, but his affordability would also allow Cashman the luxury of signing 2 impact starters, like Corbin and Keuchel.

 

All I’m trying to say is that Sano could “possibly” bring back a couple of New York’s top prospects, not their entire farm system, geez.

The Yankees are about $106 mil under the luxury tax threshold for 2019, in terms of guaranteed contracts right now. They should have no trouble pursuing multiple top free agents if they so desire.

 

I guess I don't know what you mean by "top prospects" -- you seemed to be implying that NY would give up good ones to make it worthwhile for the Twins to consider. I don't see that as a possibility at all -- it really ceases to be "cost effective" if they have to give up good prospect value to get a guy with as many question marks as Sano.

 

They might be willing to give us a lighter package to buy low on Sano, just like every other team, but why would we be interested in that? We might as well take a chance on Sano's upside ourselves.

[Jham]

  On 8/28/2018 at 1:51 AM, mngopherguy said:

Even if he were to bring back a couple top prospects, you still are trading him near an all time low value. Unless the Twins truly think this is all he will be, I think it's a mistake to trade Sano now.

I think people mistake performance for value. Young players' value in the trade market often decreases even as their production increases because teams value controllable salary over more expensive options. This is fueled by luxury tax flexibility.

 

The luxury tax penalty accelerates the more consecutive seasons a team exceeds the threshold. However, if you drop below the threshold, even for a season, you get to reset the penalty. Yankees have already reset as have the Red Sox and Dodgers after this year, I believe. Presumably, they're gearing up for Kershaw and Harper deals which may generate some tax consequence but from a new base. Ironically, the tax scheme designed to make the playing field more level has only made the young controllable player which small market ball was based on, more valuable to all teams. negating some of that advantage. The biggest losers, of course, are the mid-tier free agents and perhaps the suckers who signed them.