Article: What To Do With Logan Forsythe?

[Cast of Thousands]

 

They'd get nothing for him, but they should sign him to play second base next year?

That's not necessarily what I'm saying.  I don't know if they should sign him or not.  Obviously the preference would be to look for bigger fish to round out the middle infield whether it's at SS or 2B.

 

I'm just saying that if the Twins spent a boatload of money elsewhere (pipe dream largely), either SP, RP or outfield, it wouldn't be the end of the world to have Forsythe holding down 2B until Gordon or whomever else is ready to take the reins.

[SwainZag]

 

Very fair question. I'd love some combination of Escobar (slide Sano to 1st), Carlos Gonzalez (trade Kepler) and another good arm. Plus some bullpen help but that always tends to work itself out. 

 

Can you toss me some logic why we would trade a 25 year old athletic OF for a soon to be 33 year old OF that has a triple slash of: .252/.308/.423 outside of Coors Field for his career?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Can you toss me some logic why we would trade a 25 year old athletic OF for a soon to be 33 year old OF that has a triple slash of: .252/.308/.423 outside of Coors Field for his career?

I assume he is suggesting trading Kepler for something of value, and then signing Gonzalez to replace him.

 

But even if you can get good value for Kepler (which I sort of doubt, he's largely stagnated and his salary jumps this offseason with arbitration), it's probably a bad idea to replace him with Gonzalez regardless.

[Yoke]

 

Good point above.....they might be moving Polanco to 2B, and promoting Lewis in 2020.....

 

OTOH, if Buxton can't hit, they might be moving Lewis to CF at some point.....

If you can get Buxton to be a .240 or .250 hitter, I’m fine with him out there every day. He brings so much to the table defensively.

 

My plan would be to sign Forsythe to a cheap deal to bridge you to 2020. Also, if he’s cheap and goes down the tubes, you can release him without much of a hit to the pocketbook, and hope that he’s gotten you far enough that Gordon is stepping up or Arraez can come up and give it a shot for a couple months.

 

2019 infield is Sano, Polanco, Forsythe, Mauer/Austin. OF is Rosario, Buxton, Kepler.

 

2020 infield is Sano, Lewis, Polanco, Rooker. OF is Rosario, Buxton, Kiriloff.

 

[purppride1]

 

I assume he is suggesting trading Kepler for something of value, and then signing Gonzalez to replace him.

 

Bingo. Never been a huge Kepler fan. He should be better than he is. I know he's still young and could put it together, but as you indicate, he's about to start getting expensive and I'm just not convinced he is worth it. 

 

Not married to CarGo as the replacement, just a guy I like. I totally get the Coors effect, just nobody outside of Harper on that list that blows me away. 

 

BTW... very important point for those who think we should be able to woo a Machado or Harper type...  We can offer a player more than the Yankees, Dodgers, etc, but once that player's agents starts figuring out the marketing and merchandising deals they can land in those big cities, relative to what they can get here, we may still fall short. There's nothing ownership can do for that other than overpay so much that they offset those deals too, but then they just move the bar for the next guy and we're stuck in the same rut.  I've seen so many anti-Pohlad posts on here and I don't necessarily disagree with some of them, but I think it's overly simplistic to blame the owners for not landing stars who have free will to make their own decisions and will consider factors beyond just the team's offer.  By all accounts, the Twins were active last offseason. I'm hopeful they will be active this offseason.  Just don't assume that the ones we miss on are because ownership was cheap.  Let's just hope they land a few good ones...

[SwainZag]

 

I assume he is suggesting trading Kepler for something of value, and then signing Gonzalez to replace him.

 

But even if you can get good value for Kepler (which I sort of doubt, he's largely stagnated and his salary jumps this offseason with arbitration), it's probably a bad idea to replace him with Gonzalez regardless.

 

Oh, yeah I didn't mean to imply like a one for one trade, but I can see how most post sounded like that.  I just really don't like the idea of bringing CarGo in, especially at his age.

[Dr. Beanpole]

I would be fine bringing him back on a 1-2 year deal as a spot starter/utility guy, assuming they can't get Escobar back. Seems like a good guy who won't lose you games when he has to play, and when they replace him in the lineup he should have trade value at that time. Let him hold down the fort at 2B if you can't get anyone else to take the job this offseason.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I would be fine bringing him back on a 1-2 year deal as a spot starter/utility guy, assuming they can't get Escobar back. Seems like a good guy who won't lose you games when he has to play, and when they replace him in the lineup he should have trade value at that time. Let him hold down the fort at 2B if you can't get anyone else to take the job this offseason.

Forsythe can't play SS, which is a bit of a problem for a "utility guy" in the era of short benches.

 

And assuming he will have trade value down the line is a stretch, considering he doesn't right now.

[Fritzderkat]

 

• Old School - this is more personal preference, but I love that Forsythe is looking like your old school middle infielder.  Like a Greg Gagne type. Not special, but solid player you can count on most days.  

Agree.

If the Twins had more of these, they might not be so dynamic but most of us here would be happier.

How anyone at this time can count on Gordon or Buxton for anything is beyond me.

 

 

[Fritzderkat]

 

 

I know it's a pipe dream, but Machado will be worth whatever money is necessary to get him since it probably allows us to solidify the entire infield for nearly a decade.  He shouldn't cost too much more than Mauer did with a much better chance of providing value through the entire contract.

 

Can anyone tell me why Machado would want to play here? It could be only for money--far more than the Polads would ever consider to pay--and unlike Mauer, he ain't yer favorite son. It may be unkind, but I wonder if he even knows where Minnesota is.

 

[Fritzderkat]

And who's to say anyone ever knew that Mauer, principally due to injuries it appears, would not provide full value through the entire contract?

He was, before that, a three-time batting champ, MVP, has a career BA of .306, and holds a career WAR of 54.7, which still ranks him 10th among all MLB players. Who else among Twins has stats that even come close? And yet most people here seem overly anxious to push him out the door.

[Fargoguy]

Mauer was every bit is good as Machado is today.  Hell, he was probably better.  Mauer played a position with more attrition than Machado.  That's why I would bet that Machado has a better chance of providing value throughout the contract than Mauer.  I'm not saying that Machado is a better player than Mauer was when he was signed.  Sorry if I was unclear.  

 

Not that it matters anyway.  I seriously doubt that Machado will even consider coming here.

[VATwinsFan]

 

he should run for governor.

How about Attorney General instead? 

[AlwaysinModeration]

Well, yes, but the cost will be higher, since he's now cheaper for the trading team.

That there is some serious voodoo economics you are preaching there.

[jorgenswest]

If he has value to the bench or lineup of a contending team, they should be able to find a trade partner.

 

If he doesn’t have that value, they shouldn’t be interested in fostering him next year.

 

A three man bench has a spot for an OF, middle infield and catcher. He can’t fill any of those roles as a 2B/3B. The fourth guy needs options to give them roster flexibility.

[mlhouse]

Why the Twins would want a 32 year old journeyman 2Bman next year is beyond me.  I guess some of you are truly committed to mediocrity at best.

 

Here is the deal for all of those waiting for 2020 for Lewis-Gordon-Rooker-Kirrilloff:  why wait until 2020 to have them go through their adjustment phase.  Start the season with them in 2019, stick through their ups and downs, and if they are true prospects by the end of the season they will be playing well.  Waiting just makes 2019 another losing season with mediocirites like Forsythe.  Makes 2020 another losing season as the young players go through their adjustments.

 

Look at what the Braves have done with Ronald Acuna, Ozzie Albies, and Dansby Swanson.  And now their fortunes are turning around.   If the Braves Front Office operated like the Twins, those guys would still be in the minors or maybe in Dansby's case just breaking in(at 24 he has 3 years of MLB experience).

[yarnivek1972]

5 years, $ 200 mil.

 

He’s gunna hit .800 for the rest of the year and forever.

 

Really.

[beckmt]

Second base market (along with SS) is not great this winter.  You are going to pay more for Escobar than you expect.  I have seen articles that the Twins approached his representitives about an extension and where turned down.  That does not bode well for his signing here, 

Forsythe is not the greatest, but would be a one year reasonably priced bridge to the Twins system, which should have several options close to ready by 2020.  If he does well and the Twins do not flip him, if he does not do well you can cut him lose mid season without a big loss.

Would rather spend the frontline money on pitching and signing the core (Rosario, Sano, Berrios) to long term deals and not let them get too close to FA where the grass could well be greener on the other side of the fence.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

Second base market (along with SS) is not great this winter.

Why do you say that?

 

Dozier

Kinsler

Lowrie

Murphy

LeMahieu

Cabrera

Forsythe

 

Plus infielders Escobar and Machado, plus some utility guys like Descalso and Marwin Gonzalez, and shortstops like Iglesias, Hechavarria, Mercer, and Galvis. (And over at third base, Donaldson, Moustakas, and Beltre.)

 

Not all of these guys are great, of course, but this looks as deep of an infield market as I can remember. Easily beats the market from last winter, where by far the biggest infield contract was Zack Cozart at 3/38, and Mike Moustakas struggled to get any deal at all.

[Thebigalguy]

I'm very surprised at what he's done so far here, and I like how he uses the whole field, which might teach his younger teammates something useful if they're paying attention. I wouldn't really think about extending his contract, though, after just a couple weeks, especially if in September the FO wants to see if Gordon can hold his own. We had a lot of one-year options this year. How did that work out, for the Twins, anyway? (I note that Lynn is now an ace with the Yanks, 1 run in 22 innings; maybe he needed a pennant race for an adrenaline rush.) These short-term rentals aren't the answer. Sano's improved. Bring Buxton back, bring Gordon up, and let's get it on with the new era. I would like to see them keep Mauer around for another year or two, maybe via a transition during that time to player-coach or player-consultant or  some such thing. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Second base market (along with SS) is not great this winter.  You are going to pay more for Escobar than you expect.  I have seen articles that the Twins approached his representitives about an extension and where turned down.  That does not bode well for his signing here, 

Forsythe is not the greatest, but would be a one year reasonably priced bridge to the Twins system, which should have several options close to ready by 2020.  If he does well and the Twins do not flip him, if he does not do well you can cut him lose mid season without a big loss.

Would rather spend the frontline money on pitching and signing the core (Rosario, Sano, Berrios) to long term deals and not let them get too close to FA where the grass could well be greener on the other side of the fence.  

 

They have the money to do all that. Also, Sano isn't signing a deal right now. Does anyone think he won't bet he's great again? 

[beckmt]

Forsythe is going to take the first reasonable contract he sees this offseason and not wait and see what developes.  Not moving now or at the end of the season if you choose to wait, could mean either you overpay or have to take a lessor option than you currently have.  I like defense at second to offense.  

If you think Dozier is coming back, he was not even offered an extension here. That is very telling.

[stringer bell]

We all know Forsythe isn't going to hit .400, but I do like his approach. He doesn't strike out much, uses the whole field and has hit a lot of line drives. If that continues until the end of the season, he's got some value. With the uncertainty the Twins have in the infield, I think having a veteran who is competent with the bat and the glove is worth something. A one-year deal almost by definition isn't a bad deal. If Gordon or Lewis is ready sometime next year and Sano is still a third baseman, well you have a right handed bench bat. I don't want Forsythe to block a great prospect, but I do believe the Twins could contend again next year and having a decent right handed hitter with some positional flexibility is desirable.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Gordon or Lewis is ready sometime next year and Sano is still a third baseman, well you have a right handed bench bat.

A bench player that can only play 2B/3B isn't all that useful.

[Blackjack]

 

Flip him while he is hot.  And sign Escobar next off-season to play second.

People keep saying 'sign Escobar' but I don't see it happening.   Yeah he might like MN but does that override the 'they traded me , I had to uproot my family factor?'   Plus you'll have twenty some other teams to bid against. I'd be really surprised if he signed back with the Twins.

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Escobar's unwillingess to sign an extension when approached does not bode well.    

 

 

People keep saying 'sign Escobar' but I don't see it happening.   Yeah he might like MN but does that override the 'they traded me , I had to uproot my family factor?'   Plus you'll have twenty some other teams to bid against. I'd be really surprised if he signed back with the Twins.

 

Who knows what Escobar is thinking and feeling. I have no idea and everybody is different. 

 

But, we all need to think about this logically. 

 

During his entire career... he had no control where he has to report. He was 17 when he chose to sign with the White Sox. Since he signed that contract as a teenager, it has been 12 years of having very little control. He can't just pick up the phone and call the Mariners to try and get the open shortstop position like the rest of us.  

 

After 12 years... would any of us give up the chance to finally make your own decision? Unless there is a perceived over pay, I know I wouldn't. We shouldn't read too much into "Escobar's unwillingess to sign an extension"... if an extension was indeed offered. 

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not signing an extension unless I'm convinced it's the best I can do. 

 

As far as being upset because he was traded. I'd guess that he knows why he was traded so he is not taking it personally and if he does take it personally... he has an agent who can explain it to him. 

 

The Twins have the same chance as anyone else to sign him. Perhaps better because he knows the players and coaches. But it will be his choice for the first time in his 12 year career. 

 

It's up to the Twins now to show him exactly how much they want him. 

 

 

 

[Rosterman]

The only reason to dangle him in waivers is salary releif. If they are going to eat all but the major league pro-rated minimum anyways, I guess you keep him. Let him be a free agent and revisit in the off-season. You would choose him, say, over a return of Dozier or add back Escobar? 

 

But I still think it is imperative that the Twins do promote Nick Gordon for September and let him playa s many games as they can swallow at the major league level just to see what he MIGHT give them either at the beginning of the season, or after x-months of service at Triple-A in 2019. If he is truly overmatched and the Twins wish to move on, they can. But right now, he is the future.

 

The Twins, as they stand, aren't looking for a couple of pieces to be a contender in 2019. They can sign a few guys for limited contracts to supplement the delayed arival of some prospects, but rest assured that if the Twins opened the season with  starting rotation made up of 5 of the 10 guys currently on the 40-man, and maybe add a vet arm to the bullpen and think abouta a possible vet bat not named Mauer to the regular roster, could they at least play ball comparable t their team this year and out-compete KC, Chicago and Detroit. Probably. If the pitching prospects (Goncalves, Romero, teamed with Berrios and Gibson and one of Odorizzi, Pineda, Littell, Mejia...you might have a decent chance at becoming another Cleveland, in 2020.

[mngopherguy]

Bringing up Gordon, who is very clearly not ready, would be a mistake.  If someone already has too much on their plate, you do not add more.  He still should be viewed as the future, maybe a September 2019 call up will make some sense.  

[Vanimal46]

 

I still don't know why another team would give anything of value for LoFo... But at least the ground work is done just in case.

[stringer bell]

 

I still don't know why another team would give anything of value for LoFo... But at least the ground work is done just in case.

Other than a 2B or 3B injury, it seems doubtful.