Article: What To Do With Byron Buxton?

[Nick Nelson]

 

Are you sure? Unless the Twins messed up the paperwork when they sent Byron to the minors on rehab assignments in 2015 and 2017, I count only 2016 and 2018 as exercised minor league options. That would still leave one, as Diehard says above. But I'm no expert on the arcana of these rules - it's all black magic, I tell ya!

Ahhh, I was wrong on this. I looked at his log and saw he'd been optioned in 2015 also but as noted by spycake that was fewer than 20 days and thus didn't qualify.

 

Doesn't change the overall thinking too much but I'll fix the article, thank you.

[Roaddog]

He desperately needs to play.

[bighat]

Agree with Riverbrian. No way should the Twins call up Buxton and burn a year of service time just because he has a nice August in Rochester. Full stop. Period. End of story.

 

Buxton has given the Twins exactly 3 good months of baseball over the course of 3 seasons. What about taking a look at some other players instead? If Buxton shows up with a chip on his shoulder next spring, so be it.

 

We already know Buxton can hit MLB pitching in September. He does it every year. The Twins need to see Buxton hit in April, May, June, and July. Calling him up next week serves no purpose other than to create more discord and confusion in the Byron Buxton saga.

[hybridbear]

 

 

Second: Buxton's service time. As Mike Berardino pointed out when Buxton was optioned, Minnesota stands to gain an additional year of control (2022) should the center fielder fail to accrue another 13 days in the majors.

Pretty straightforward math here: Is one month of Buxton, utterly out of sorts at age 24, worth forfeiting a full season at age 28, when he's hopefully amidst his superstar prime?

No brainer to tell him to rest & get healthy. Shut him down when the AAA season ends so he can focus on his health & next season.

[wsnydes]

I think you let him ride out the AAA season and make him earn the call up afterwards. He's so crucial to the future of this club, along with Sano, that you need to give him opportunities to succeed. If he starts raking AAA pitching and has some confidence that would be the time to bring him up. Otherwise, let him reset over the offseason, work on his craft and come in to ST hungry to stick with the big league club.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Buxton had a terrific night in Rochester. Time to call him up in September.

A good night for Rochester is definitely better than a bad night, but worth noting that Gordon and Vargas had good nights at the plate too.

 

Buxton really needs a series of good nights down there.

[sloopjont]

If they call him up they should maybe just have him DH.  His fielding is not his problem and playing in the field is the most likely way he'd get hurt.

[Otto von Ballpark]

What defense would they have against a claim that it's blatant service time manipulation?

Unless his performance is off the charts, I am not sure that claim would mean much. The reasons for his initial demotion this year would still be largely applicable in September, maybe more so with the continued health struggles.

 

Buxton is also arb eligible this winter. Maybe we settle at whatever his side submits to stay in his good graces and sidestep a service time grievance?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I can't see anyway the Twins can get away with Option B if he's healthy. No minor league games for him to play in, MLB rosters have expanded, but you're just going to send him home?

 

What defense would they have against a claim that it's blatant service time manipulation? There should absolutely be a grievance filed if that happens. Now would/should the Twins care about that? I don't know, those take years to resolve, so in reality maybe it doesn't matter much. Still, it'd be a bad look.

 

I'm sure the Twins would love it if Buxton just suffered another injury that was bad enough to shut him down for the year, but not serious to the point where it would threaten his 2019 season. 

 

Watch your back out there, Byron …

 

 

It's also completely legal. The union can cry about this all the want, and all the Twins need to do is point to Buxton's results this year. He wouldn't be the first guy in all of baseball who got sent home in September. It's a crowded roster, and the Twins could simply state that they need to get a good look at Field, Cave, Austin, and Ralley, and quite frankly, they'd be right. 

 

Again, Buxton put himself in this situation. As far as I'm concerned, he get the Sano treatment, fly to FTM, and spend 4 hours a day in the weight room. That kid needs to bulk up. I'd also make it clear to him that the plan is to start in him the minors next year, no matter how good his spring is... so put in the work needed to get his bat up to speed as well as the work needed to make him a bit less brittle. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Call him up when there only enough days left in the season to get that extra year of control. There’s no rule that says call ups have to be on Sept 1 or on the day the minor league season ends.

 

Win win.

 

Twins get the extra year. Buxton gets a handful of AB against MLB pitching.

Okay, this would probably invite a service time grievance.

 

Seriously, I think it is easier to justify the "falling just short" thing at the start of a player's career, before they have been added to the roster. Harder to hold back vets -- they've met your requirements for a call-up numerous times before, just not now until they are 1 day past a service time threshold?

[Riverbrian]

 

I can't see anyway the Twins can get away with Option B if he's healthy. No minor league games for him to play in, MLB rosters have expanded, but you're just going to send him home?

 

What defense would they have against a claim that it's blatant service time manipulation? There should absolutely be a grievance filed if that happens. Now would/should the Twins care about that? I don't know, those take years to resolve, so in reality maybe it doesn't matter much. Still, it'd be a bad look.

 

I'm sure the Twins would love it if Buxton just suffered another injury that was bad enough to shut him down for the year, but not serious to the point where it would threaten his 2019 season. 

 

Watch your back out there, Byron ...

 

 

I admit I don't know the answer with 100% certainty but I'm fairly baseball attentive and I don't recall a ton of reports of clubs getting nailed by grievances filed by the MLBPA.

 

Frankly, the CBA not only allows service time manipulation, it basically encourages it. 

 

The Cubs manipulated service time with Kris Bryant 

The Astros manipulated service time with George Springer

The Braves manipulated service time with Ronald Acuna

The Yankees manipulated service time with Greyber Torres

 

The list is waaaaaayyyyyy longer than this... "the bad look" is worn by every major league club and it doesn't appear as if the bad look has cost the Cubs or Astros or Yankeees in terms of acquiring players. 

 

 

[mazeville]

Come on. Let's get real.

 

Byron Buxton needs to be up this year, taking a shot against major league breaking balls. 

 

This is not a debate. It is exactly what the Twins will do. And it is exactly what the Twins should do. He needs to be up at the major league level, getting that bat of his back in shape. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I admit I don't know the answer with 100% certainty but I'm fairly baseball attentive and I don't recall a ton of reports of clubs getting nailed by grievances filed by the MLBPA.

 

Frankly, the CBA not only allows service time manipulation, it basically encourages it.

 

The Cubs manipulated service time with Kris Bryant

The Astros manipulated service time with George Springer

The Braves manipulated service time with Ronald Acuna

The Yankees manipulated service time with Greyber Torres

 

The list is waaaaaayyyyyy longer than this... "the bad look" is worn by every major league club and it doesn't appear as if the bad look has cost the Cubs or Astros or Yankeees in terms of acquiring players.

All of those guys had service time manipulation at the very beginning of their careers. If you have never promoted a player to your MLB roster before, you can pretty much always find a justification for keeping them in the minors. And the player can't do much about it, because he is not even in the MLBPA yet -- he is not the union's primary concern.

 

Not so with a player like Buxton. The Twins have promoted him to MLB several times already. To skip out on a promotion after the minor league season ends, the Twins would need a reasonably compelling reason, or they probably could expect Buxton and his union to file a grievance.

 

I expect the Twins could present such a reason, but if Buxton demonstrates health and good performance at AAA, it will be tougher. And it could be acrimonious.

[mikelink45]

If Buxton is hot and the minors When September Comes then he should come up and try to have some success in the majors to build off. If he's struggling in the minors and takes September and the winter off. I'm not worried about when he's 28 I'm concerned about getting the best out of him for next year and the year after. It's up to the front office to handle contracts. What a Buxton who is healthy and having success in the majors is something we can build off in a positive way and something that I hope will provide him with a platform for future success. At this point nothing he's done in the majors other than his speed and Fielding it gives me hope that we are going to maximize his talent. So whatever we do let's push for the best he can be and not try to think about super twos and future contracts

[Tom Froemming]

 

I admit I don't know the answer with 100% certainty but I'm fairly baseball attentive and I don't recall a ton of reports of clubs getting nailed by grievances filed by the MLBPA.

 

Frankly, the CBA not only allows service time manipulation, it basically encourages it. 

 

The Cubs manipulated service time with Kris Bryant 

The Astros manipulated service time with George Springer

The Braves manipulated service time with Ronald Acuna

The Yankees manipulated service time with Greyber Torres

 

The list is waaaaaayyyyyy longer than this... "the bad look" is worn by every major league club and it doesn't appear as if the bad look has cost the Cubs or Astros or Yankeees in terms of acquiring players. 

I know for sure Bryant filed a grievance, but I believe that's still unresolved.

 

The big difference is those guys had their MLB debuts delayed. I think it's a lot more reasonable to say you couldn't find a spot for a rookie on your 25-man roster.

 

Byron Buxton was honored as the best defensive player in baseball last season, finished 18th in AL MVP voting and the would be held off of an expanded roster. This situation may also be addressed differently because, unlike those other guys at the time, Buxton is already in the union.

[Number3]

As usual, these issues are made much more complicated than they need to be. Byron Buxton is a Major League baseball player. If he is healthy enough he should be playing at the Major League level. If he goes home he could be hurt walking down the stairs. Chances of getting hurt in the minor leagues just as great. He needs the competition. Bring him up and let him play with nothing at stake. If he gets hurt again, better find out now that in April, 2019.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Didn't JJ Hardy get his time manipulated in a similar fashion when he was with the Brewers? 

 

I don't believe he won that... and honestly, Buxton has zero ground to stand on if the Twins did it. His performance speaks for itself, and a hot few weeks in August isn't going to change that, nor should it. 

[Thebigalguy]

If the Buckman is healthy, bring him up pronto, like yesterday. If there’s any question about health, shut him down. No ifs no ands no buts. Rochester is pointless. Buying a year of control is unethical and will cost more than it’s worth in goodwill. Give the Buckman as much rope as he can handle.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Didn't JJ Hardy get his time manipulated in a similar fashion when he was with the Brewers? 

 

I don't believe he won that... and honestly, Buxton has zero ground to stand on if the Twins did it. His performance speaks for itself, and a hot few weeks in August isn't going to change that, nor should it. 

JJ Hardy was demoted to AAA in on August 12, 2009. He was having his worst MLB season at the time, and the Brewers promoted BA's #19/#12 overall prospect prospect to directly take his place, Alcides Escobar -- and Escobar did in fact outperform Hardy in terms of OPS the rest of the year. Hardy was also recalled immediately when rosters expanded on Sep. 1, 20 days later.

 

Of course, the Brewers also didn't keep Hardy around to deal with any potential acrimony -- they traded him for Carlos Gomez basically as soon as the offseason started (Nov. 6). So even if holding down Buxton was easier to justify, it could be a bigger deal down the road for the Twins.

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

I don't suppose he is eligible for the AFL

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

But, at this moment... we are theoretically in contention for 2019. 

 

Not so much in 2018. 

But it's kind of a catch-22.

 

On one hand, 2018 is indeed lost, so perhaps there's no sense wasting service time in 2018.

 

But if 2019 is important, you want the player ready on opening day if at all possible, so maybe September 2018 isn't really a "waste" of service time after all.

 

With an option remaining for 2019, I'm increasingly thinking that it might be a win-win to promote him this September (assuming he's healthy and performing in Rochester, of course). Either it benefits him toward becoming a good MLB hitter again by opening day 2019, in which case we'll all be very thankful given the alternative. Or if it doesn't, he will probably need 29 days in the minors next year anyway.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't suppose he is eligible for the AFL

Ha! No. I think 1 year MLB service time is the max for AFL players.

 

Could do winter ball, but like all players -- do you want him to risk injury in winter ball?

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

I was at the game last night in Columbus. What's missing in this deabate and the recent bias toward a 3 for 5, 4 RBI (no k's) night was Buxton's ordinarily spectacular fielding. He ran down a drive to deep left-center that would have scored two and kept Gonsalves' ERA over 3. Bring him up in September, and offer a team-friendly extension in the off-season. Now is the time to buy low on Buxton. BTW: Huntington Park is awesome!

[Nick Nelson]

 

I know for sure Bryant filed a grievance, but I believe that's still unresolved.

 

The big difference is those guys had their MLB debuts delayed. I think it's a lot more reasonable to say you couldn't find a spot for a rookie on your 25-man roster.

 

Byron Buxton was honored as the best defensive player in baseball last season, finished 18th in AL MVP voting and the would be held off of an expanded roster. This situation may also be addressed differently because, unlike those other guys at the time, Buxton is already in the union.

So he would file a grievance and base it entirely on performance from the previous season? That doesn't seem totally frivolous to you? 

 

In order to make such a claim Buxton would need to show that Minnesota's intent with their handling of him was not in good faith, and almost entirely to manipulate his service time. I don't think that's a case you can make. They optioned him originally in early July and there was no angst at that time because it was justified. He then got hurt and (up to this point) hasn't performed well enough to warrant a recall. 

 

I'll grant that if he keeps hitting like he did last night the dynamic changes. But if he's whiffing at a 35% rate and hitting .220 when the Triple-A season wraps up, I don't think the Twins would really need to "defend" their decision not to recall him, especially with other outfielders earning their playing time and Buxton's health in a constantly precarious state. 

 

This report has some really good and comprehensive info on the topic:

Though it seems obvious in some of the service time manipulation case studies that MLB clubs are acting with the goal of preventing a player from accruing service time, it may be difficult to allege that the club did not still act within the MLBPA’s reasonable expectations. Assignment to the major league roster involves discretion that is exercised by highly sophisticated player personnel departments.

Alleging that a club used this vast discretion for unexpected reasons may be a daunting task unless a club official clearly admits to ulterior motives.Likely cognizant of this, club officials in the case studies examined in this Note vehemently deny that a player’s assignment to the minor league roster has anything to do with service time.

 

 

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

 

Ha! No. I think 1 year MLB service time is the max for AFL players.

 

Could do winter ball, but like all players -- do you want him to risk injury in winter ball?

I couldn't find the sarcasm font

[ashbury]

Ha! No. I think 1 year MLB service time is the max for AFL players.

 

Could do winter ball, but like all players -- do you want him to risk injury in winter ball?

 

I couldn't find the sarcasm font

 

Outfit our players with these. Problem solved. You're welcome.

 

[chaderic20]

I think an important factor that none of us will ever know, and will be up to the FO and coaches to weigh, is Buxton's mental state.  Is he completely frazzled after a frustrating season and straining/pushing himself trying to break through?  If so, maybe it'd be better to not call him up, and actually tell him to disappear somewhere warm and tropical for the month of September and don't touch a baseball or bat while you're gone.  Get physically healthy, clear your head, and we'll see you for offseason workouts in a month and you better be ready to work hard.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So he would file a grievance and base it entirely on performance from the previous season? That doesn't seem totally frivolous to you? 

 

In order to make such a claim Buxton would need to show that Minnesota's intent with their handling of him was not in good faith, and almost entirely to manipulate his service time. I don't think that's a case you can make. They optioned him originally in early July and there was no angst at that time because it was justified. He then got hurt and (up to this point) hasn't performed well enough to warrant a recall. 

 

I'll grant that if he keeps hitting like he did last night the dynamic changes. But if he's whiffing at a 35% rate and hitting .220 when the Triple-A season wraps up, I don't think the Twins would really need to "defend" their decision not to recall him, especially with other outfielders earning their playing time and Buxton's health in a constantly precarious state. 

 

This report has some really good and comprehensive info on the topic:

 

Nick, I just scanned that article, and the names listed were Bryant, Gregory Polanco, Singleton, and Springer. Those were all players who had their initial MLB call-ups manipulated. The Buxton situation is different -- this is a player who has already been on the MLB roster, he's already represented by the player's union, and he will have nowhere else to play in September.

 

I don't think Buxton would win a grievance, but if he performs at AAA and demonstrates health over the next few weeks, it certainly wouldn't be frivolous. And even if the Twins can "win" the grievance process, in some ways they might "lose" just be letting it get to that point.

 

If we were talking about a pitcher, it would be far easier to justify the "shut down" plan. But I think a position player like Buxton makes that a less convincing case.

[yarnivek1972]

Nick, I just scanned that article, and the names listed were Bryant, Gregory Polanco, Singleton, and Springer. Those were all players who had their initial MLB call-ups manipulated. The Buxton situation is different -- this is a player who has already been on the MLB roster, he's already represented by the player's union, and he will have nowhere else to play in September.

 

I don't think Buxton would win a grievance, but if he performs at AAA and demonstrates health over the next few weeks, it certainly wouldn't be frivolous. And even if the Twins can "win" the grievance process, in some ways they might "lose" just be letting it get to that point.

 

If we were talking about a pitcher, it would be far easier to justify the "shut down" plan. But I think a position player like Buxton makes that a less convincing case.

idk, the presumed reason to shut a pitcher down is to prevent injury, right? Pretty much everyone in this thread has said that is definitely part of the reason to shut Byron down.

[The Wise One]

Glen Perkins comes to mind.  Eflin might lose enough time with his 10 day demotion.  I am sure there are more players with mlb experience sent down     As far as Buxton goes,   almost 1000 PA, before this season, .701 ops.   Can he do a Dozier or a JD Martinez?