Article: Twins Daily Roundtable: Prospect Promotions

[ajstolt_09]

If Romero, Gonsalves, and that hoard of bullpen guys don't all get significant run in the next month and a half, I'll be shocked!! The bullpen guys deserve a long enough chance to fight through the struggles they might have, and Romeo and Gonsalves are going to be part of what the rotation is built on in the next few years. Get their feet wet this year so next year they can jump right in in the deep end.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Well Romero, Gonsalves, and Littell should for sure be called up to the Twins.

 

Rooker and Thorpe makes sense to be at least promoted to AAA given their recent stretches of good play. By doing that it could put Rooker and Thorpe in a better position to be called up to the Twins next year.

[Monkeypaws]

I'll chip in:

 

GONSALVES DAMMIT!

[jimbo92107]

Twins already know Fernando Romero is a future starter, so he's okay in AAA for the remainder, where they can work on his command a bit more, then shut him down to save that arm.

 

Gonsalves for sure, and Rooker for sure. Make room by DFA'ing LoMo and Belisle. 

 

Leave Gordon in AAA to work on pitch recognition and pump iron. Possible late September callup. Same schedule for Kohl Stewart, who may need a cuppa to keep his hopes up. 

 

Here's why the Twins shouldn't have traded for any players on the 40. Bringing up Wade means releasing one of those guys. 

[curt1965]

I’ll be extremely disappointed if it’s not Gonsalves. He has watched everyone else get a chance this year because of his inability to avoid walks. And I also think he needs more than a couple starts in September.

I’d be really happy to see him take Odarizzi’s spot in the rotation.

 

And please, no more Grossman next year. We can do better!

[Mr. Ed]

 

Except I guess for Tampa Bay, since he had worse peripherals last year than he does this year. If you want to look at facts and all that.

 

Fact: Odorizzi threw 101 pitches in 4.2 innings tonight. Zero Strikeouts

 

Fact: Odorizzi has  completed more than five innings in only 1/3 of his starts. 
Peripherals? Who cares? The guy is a bullpen killer every time out.

[Thrylos]

 

Instead of jumping the gun with Rooker, anyone in favor of signing Hanley to a 1 year deal next year? And we can always flip him at the deadline if need be.

 

Austin is out of options.  Ramirez is 2 years removed from being a league average player and he is Mauer's age.  I have no issue if they sign him to a minor league contract with a ST invitation to see if he can get his act together and compete for 2 spots with Rooker and Austin...

 

The Red Sox could not flip him this season...

Edited August 9, 2018 by Thrylos

[mikelink45]

I know this FO loves the guys that they pick up but I do not want to see Austin jump in front of Rooker.  Gonsalves should already be up.  I want to see lots of movement, lots of young players.  I do not care if the just cut Morrison and lose money, he has already cost them.  I do not care if they lose Santana for nothing, cut him.  Move on.  Even out best season in the last 7 is not good enough.  Quit hanging on to the question marks.  Test the young guys and don't wait for September.

[rdehring]

 

I think Graterol is like Alcala -- Roster Resource has them mistakenly eligible this winter. They both signed after the conclusion of their minor league seasons in 2014, and were 18 or younger on the preceding June 5. Thus, neither should be eligible until their 5th Rule 5 draft beginning in 2015, which would be 2019.

I see Graterol is listed as signing on August 29.  The DSL season was probably over by a couple days, most minor league seasons in the U.S. weren't.  Do they use the DSL season for these signings?  

[ashbury]

I know this FO loves the guys that they pick up but I do not want to see Austin jump in front of Rooker. 

Rooker is this FO's guy too, having drafted him in '17. Austin is a full 3 years older, plus even more pro experience as a HS-draftee, and is major league ready if he'll ever be. If the FO has any qualms about Rooker being ready, I see no problem with Austin having the first crack at it.

 

And if this proves to be a mistake in judgement, Rooker will beat down the door quickly enough next year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I see Graterol is listed as signing on August 29. The DSL season was probably over by a couple days, most minor league seasons in the U.S. weren't. Do they use the DSL season for these signings?

Yes. They use the season of the first minor league team to which the player is assigned, which for Graterol was indeed the DSL.

 

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517

 

"If a player signs his first contract after the conclusion of the season of the MLB or minor league club to which he is first assigned (even if he signs prior to the Rule 5 Draft), the next season is considered to be the player's "first qualified season" for Rule 5 eligibility purposes. (Depending on the minor league, the conclusion of a minor league club's season could be as early as the first week of August, or as late as the second week of September)."

 

Hypothetically, had he first been assigned to the Appy League in 2015 (whose season ended on August 29 in 2014), he might have been Rule 5 eligible a year earlier.

[Major League Ready]

 

"They're not ready".

 

I hear that over and over and over and over. From supposed professional execs to paid journalists to blog writers to fans.... etc etc. And it is all BS. The Dereck Rodriguez and JT Chargois stories unfolding in real time prove that talk is ever so cheap. The only way you know someone is ready is to give them the opportunity, and see what happens. So much time can be wasted by keeping a talent down, just because one thinks they are so smart. All the suspects are ready. Let them prove they aren't by getting them some playing time instead of a Matt Belisle or Jake Ordorizzi or Logan Morrison, and even a Rodney. And a Grossman and Wilson. Especially now that the towel has been thrown in on yet another season. Waiting and patience are so highly overrated.

 

Yah, what do those supposed professional journalists know and execs know. They don't have more information than us and they don't actually see the prospects live. They are not privy to the plans and work being done with these prospects. Oh wait, maybe they do have more information and access.

Well, those qualifications they have to get those jobs, meaningless. Yep, they pay these execs a million plus a year "because they think they are so smart". Has nothing to do with education, experience, and having demonstrated managerial / leadership abilities. Anyone can do this job. That's why it pays a million+/year. You know that's not what they taught in economics courses I took but it must be true based on the things I see here.

 

The same things were said about Berrios. There were people here who insisted we had to have him for the playoff push in a couple years ago and that he would probably be our best SP. Obviously, he was NOT ready but I guess its easy to ignore these examples when you are not the person held accountable for the decisions.

 

Chargois was a mistake. They tried to sign Rodriquez  according to the interview I heard with his father. Derek just decided to go to SanDiego. So, it had nothing to do with what they did not see.. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Major Leauge Ready

[h2oface]

 

Chargois was a mistake. They tried to sign Rodriquez  according to the interview I heard with his father. Derek just decided to go to SanDiego. So, it had nothing to do with what they did not see.. 

 

Dereck...... signed and plays for San Francisco. In 2017, he pitched for both Fort Myers and the Chattanooga Lookouts where he compiled a combined 10-6 record and 3.27 ERA in 26 games (24 starts) between both teams.I believe that all that needed to be done to continue to have control and not have to resign him is to have him on the 40 man, but am not sure about that.

 

Thanks for the attack. You are welcome to your support of whoever you like. I still have the right to my opinion. More people can do jobs than those who knew somebody or got the break. Thousands more.

Edited August 9, 2018 by h2oface

[mikelink45]

 

Rooker is this FO's guy too, having drafted him in '17. Austin is a full 3 years older, plus even more pro experience as a HS-draftee, and is major league ready if he'll ever be. If the FO has any qualms about Rooker being ready, I see no problem with Austin having the first crack at it.

 

And if this proves to be a mistake in judgement, Rooker will beat down the door quickly enough next year.

I will take your optimism and keep my skepticism.  Hope you are right.  Rooker is too old to be continually put off as a future prospect.

[Major League Ready]

 

Dereck...... signed and plays for San Francisco. In 2017, he pitched for both Fort Myers and the Chattanooga Lookouts where he compiled a combined 10-6 record and 3.27 ERA in 26 games (24 starts) between both teams.I believe that all that needed to be done to continue to have control and not have to resign him is to have him on the 40 man, but am not sure about that.

 

Thanks for the attack. You are welcome to your support of whoever you like. I still have the right to my opinion. More people can do jobs than those who knew somebody or got the break. Thousands more.

 

Well, you attacked / insulted an entire group of media and executives who "think they are smart" when in fact you did not know the situation or bother to check. All you would have had to do was check the players profile (below). Instead, you assume a lot of people are just stupid. 

 

May 28, 2018 San Francisco Giants selected the contract of RHP Dereck Rodriguez from Sacramento River Cats.

 

April 3, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Sacramento River Cats from Richmond Flying Squirrels.

 

March 23, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Richmond Flying Squirrels from Sacramento River Cats.

 

January 25, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Sacramento River Cats.

 

November 15, 2017 San Francisco Giants signed free agent RHP Dereck Rodriguez to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

 

November 6, 2017 RHP Dereck Rodriguez elected free agency.

 

June 23, 2017 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Chattanooga Lookouts from Fort Myers Miracle.

[howieramone2]

 

I can also see us keeping Grossman as he does have a league average bat and high OBP. Or high enough for a bench bat.

 

Only as a bench bat/DH. His OF is so brutal. I just don't know if the Twins will have room for that. They always carry too many pitchers.

His OF play is serviceable. One of these days, he'll get beat out in ST, no need to force the issue. Our woes are not caused by guys at the end of the bench. Look the other way. 

[h2oface]

 

Well, you attacked / insulted an entire group of media and executives who "think they are smart" when in fact you did not know the situation or bother to check. All you would have had to do was check the players profile (below). Instead, you assume a lot of people are just stupid. 

 

May 28, 2018 San Francisco Giants selected the contract of RHP Dereck Rodriguez from Sacramento River Cats.

 

April 3, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Sacramento River Cats from Richmond Flying Squirrels.

 

March 23, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Richmond Flying Squirrels from Sacramento River Cats.

 

January 25, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Sacramento River Cats.

 

November 15, 2017 San Francisco Giants signed free agent RHP Dereck Rodriguez to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

 

November 6, 2017 RHP Dereck Rodriguez elected free agency.

 

June 23, 2017 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Chattanooga Lookouts from Fort Myers Miracle.

 

Thanks for the transaction record. That is a fine review for me, and others interested in knowing his path through the San Francisco system so far.

 

As I suspected, the Twins actually "allowed" Rodriguez to be a minor league free agent, and then he signed with San Francisco, (and part of my initial knowledge of the situation was to know his name was not spelled "Derek" but Dereck, and that he did not sign with "SanDiego" but San Francisco), and San Francisco "controls" him for 6 more seasons, and the Twins had unilateral means of control that they passed on. In my understanding of the language, "think they are smart" does not mean "think they are stupid", or make the opposite assumption that they "are just stupid". A lot of very smart people also think they are smart, themselves, and are even sometimes, arrogantly smart and flaunting confidence, whether deserved or not, regardless of the size of their hands. 

 

From MLBTradeRumors (The Best Minor League Signings Of 2018: Starting Pitchers) this morning:

 

Dereck Rodriguez, Giants: The bonanza of the 2017-18 minor-league class, Rodriguez has been one of the most impressive rookie starters in all of baseball despite being allowed to reach minor-league free agency last fall by the Twins. It’s unlikely he’s a true-talent 2.34 ERA pitcher — in particular, it seems doubtful he’ll continue to hold opposing hitters to a .264 BABIP and 5.7% home run rate — but he’s certainly producing quality peripherals (3.14 FIP / 4.01 xFIP / 4.08 SIERA). In any event, warning about regression for Rodriguez is like somewhat akin to raising concerns with the futures market for gold after your neighbor discovers a lode in her backyard. The Giants can count their found fortune later; for now, it’s enough that they’ve already received a huge contribution from Rodriguez and control him for six more seasons to come.

Edited August 11, 2018 by h2oface

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Well, you attacked / insulted an entire group of media and executives who "think they are smart" when in fact you did not know the situation or bother to check. All you would have had to do was check the players profile (below). Instead, you assume a lot of people are just stupid. 

 

May 28, 2018 San Francisco Giants selected the contract of RHP Dereck Rodriguez from Sacramento River Cats.

 

April 3, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Sacramento River Cats from Richmond Flying Squirrels.

 

March 23, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Richmond Flying Squirrels from Sacramento River Cats.

 

January 25, 2018 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Sacramento River Cats.

 

November 15, 2017 San Francisco Giants signed free agent RHP Dereck Rodriguez to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

 

November 6, 2017 RHP Dereck Rodriguez elected free agency.

 

June 23, 2017 RHP Dereck Rodriguez assigned to Chattanooga Lookouts from Fort Myers Miracle.

 

Rodriguez was a sleeper. He was a personal favorite of mine as well, but it's hard to fault the Twins there. He spent several years as a CF and then switched to pitcher with mixed results. you can certainly argue the bloodlines, but the only option the Twins had was to put him on the 40 man at the end of 2017 after posting an ERA just under 4 in AA with a  7.4 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, and a fairly high hit rate too, as a 25 year old in his first taste of AA. 

 

Just about any of us would have done the same in that scenario. Rodriguez wasn't enough of a prospect to be protected.

[h2oface]

 

Rodriguez was a sleeper. He was a personal favorite of mine as well, but it's hard to fault the Twins there. He spent several years as a CF and then switched to pitcher with mixed results. you can certainly argue the bloodlines, but the only option the Twins had was to put him on the 40 man at the end of 2017 after posting an ERA just under 4 in AA with a  7.4 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, and a fairly high hit rate too, as a 25 year old in his first taste of AA. 

 

Just about any of us would have done the same in that scenario. Rodriguez wasn't enough of a prospect to be protected.

 

I guess that is the rub here, for me. Falvey/Levine are "supposed" to be able to identify the right prospects, especially as pitching experts and developers is their calling card. I mean, look at the questionable upside arms they have added. And tossed. It is their job to not miss a guy like this that was in our system and ready to help in the show in 3 months! And not just show up, but shine. It is not our job, but it is theirs. But the Twins did let him leave. It was not Dereck's call to make until the Twins did not keep control of him.

Edited August 13, 2018 by h2oface

[nicksaviking]

 

I guess that is the rub here, for me. Falvey/Levine are "supposed" to be able to identify the right prospects, especially as pitching experts and developers is their calling card. I mean, look at the questionable upside arms they have added. And tossed. It is their job to not miss a guy like this that was in our system and ready to help in the show in 3 months! And not just show up, but shine. It is not our job, but it is theirs. But the Twins did let him leave. It was not Dereck's call to make until the Twins did not keep control of him.

 

The Giants didn't elect to put him on their 40-man when they signed him either, nor did the other 28 teams for that matter. I'm sure the Twins would have welcomed him back as a MiLB free agent but he instead did exactly that with SF. The Twins seem to have a pretty high retention rate with MiLB free agents, this one just didn't happen.

 

League-wide there wouldn't have been a GM, a pundit or a fan who would have advocated putting him on the Twins 40-man roster. It's only easy to hang this one over their heads with hindsight and without logic.

 

There are plenty of things the front office has gotten wrong, this isn't one of them. Unnecessary swipes take away from the legit problems.

[FormerMinnasotan]

#freegonsalves...6 scoreless innings 2 walks 5 K’s, a 2.96 ERA in AAA. If Kohl Stewart is granted his promotion Gonsalves certainly deserves a look now, not in 2 weeks...

[nicksaviking]

 

#freegonsalves...6 scoreless innings 2 walks 5 K’s, a 2.96 ERA in AAA. If Kohl Stewart is granted his promotion Gonsalves certainly deserves a look now, not in 2 weeks...

 

I'd like to see him, but if he only managed 6 innings despite allowing only 5 baserunners and no earned runs, his 99 pitches should have lasted him longer. He's still throwing way too many pitches, he needs to cut that down considerably or he's just going to be a drain on the bullpen in the majors.

 

Despite his excellent numbers, he's only made it past the 6th three times this year.

 

I think at this point Stewart is more of a non-prospect so the team isn't overly concerned with how he shapes out.

[Vanimal46]

 

Please be aggressive with his promotion schedule next season.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Vanimal46