Article: Deadline Deal: Twins Trade Brian Dozier to Dodgers

[laloesch]

 

Even if Dozier takes the QO (big IF), the Twins could have easily afforded him with the coming salary purges.

 

It would have likely been money well spent as a rare dual role of 2019 placeholder, but with leadership qualities and a representation of continuity from among the survivors on the roster- who all might get ornery enough to get their act back together after this year's debacle.

 

I would suspect that they had some discussions with him about an extension and Dozier wanted no part of it in lieu of his comments earlier in the year about the Twins not offering him a deal this past offseason.  

 

"I don't want to touch too much on this, it's the thing that gets asked all the time, but at the same time, I will be a free agent this fall. That's the bottom line. You can only say you want to be here so much, and nothing gets done. That's just the way it is. I understand everything. At the same time, you're six months away from free agency. That's intriguing."

 

Personally i don't blame the Twins for not being eager beaver and signing him to an extension given his subsequent atrocious 2018 numbers.  Other than 2016 and 2017 he has been wildly inconsistent throughout his career.

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by laloesch

[twinsnorth49]

At this point it's a good move and a decent get for Dozier. Raley is worth more than banking on Dozier getting a 50 mil deal, one in the hand is worth 2 in the bush as they say. Forsythe won't be around long imo, just long enough for some Seinfeld jokes in a GT.

 

At the end of the day, and without trying to be Capt Hindsight, Dozier really should have been traded at the deadline last season, given his age, contract status and the year he was having. There was no way his value was going higher.

 

I understand the reasons they didnt, but they should have anyway.

[mikelink45]

 

Forsythe part of the return package. Full circle.

At least we did not get Jose De Leon

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

At this point it's a good move and a decent get for Dozier. Raley is worth more than banking on Dozier getting a 50 mil deal, one in the hand is worth 2 in the bush as they say. Forsythe won't be around long imo, just long enough for some Seinfeld jokes in a GT.

At the end of the day, and without trying to be Capt Hindsight, Dozier really should have been traded at the deadline last season, given his age, contract status and the year he was having. There was no way his value was going higher.

I understand the reasons they didnt, but they should have anyway.

 

Well, they learned, and dealt Pressley this year......just hoping Gibson (and really, the team) don't do the same thing next year....

[jokin]

 

 

Lol...this is this the TD readership in a nutshell.

 

Not really. Only a handful think more could have been had. You're not reading this thread right.

[mikelink45]

 

Yep. This is the third consecutive season of Gordon looking strong and then collapsing in the second half. He's the anti-Buxton.

Or he is a clone of half season Dozier

[S.]

 

"I don't want to touch too much on this, it's the thing that gets asked all the time, but at the same time, I will be a free agent this fall. That's the bottom line. You can only say you want to be here so much, and nothing gets done. That's just the way it is. I understand everything. At the same time, you're six months away from free agency. That's intriguing."

Obviously it'll never happen, but it'd be really interesting to know what sort of numbers we offered him and what sort of numbers his agent wanted. I'd be curious to know if he was trying to get paid like his second half numbers are the norm. At the end of the day though, not signing him to an extension was the right choice both then and now.

[ThejacKmp]

Does the Twins picking up marginal 1B types in the past two days have any impact on Mauer's place with the Twins in the future? Raley may not be a guy you build around but they seem to have gotten some 1B/corner OF types that provide an option to bringing Mauer back.

 

As a Joe Mauer lover, I am scared.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I would suspect that they had some discussions with him about an extension and Dozier wanted no part of it in lieu of his comments earlier in the year about the Twins not offering him a deal this past offseason.  

 

"I don't want to touch too much on this, it's the thing that gets asked all the time, but at the same time, I will be a free agent this fall. That's the bottom line. You can only say you want to be here so much, and nothing gets done. That's just the way it is. I understand everything. At the same time, you're six months away from free agency. That's intriguing."

 

Personally i don't blame the Twins for not being eager beaver and signing him to an extension given his subsequent atrocious 2018 numbers.  Other than 2016 and 2017 he has been wildly inconsistent throughout his career.

 

I'd like to a see a link to this speculation about Dozier complaining about not getting an extension. He signed the deal he signed so that he could test FA this offseason.

 

That was very public.

 

 

[jokin]

 

 

4) Let Dozier play out the 2018 season. It's not over yet. Then decide. The "VALUE" they got for him is less than the non-zero chance the Twins can still win the ALC.

 

FIFY

[jokin]

 

 

Does the Twins picking up marginal 1B types in the past two days have any impact on Mauer's place with the Twins in the future? Raley may not be a guy you build around but they seem to have gotten some 1B/corner OF types that provide an option to bringing Mauer back.

 

As a Joe Mauer lover, I am scared.

 

Be afraid, be very afraid. Mauer is gone.

[Monkeypaws]

If Jose DeLeon was the offer for 40 HR Brian Dozier with another year of team control, this looks like a king's ransom.

[Dman]

 

So we got a worse version of Daniel Paulka to drag around for a couple years before not protecting him, and proved to the league that we can be pushed around in trade talks. Gross.

 

I don't think he is a worse version of Palka as this guy can actually play defense at all outfield spots and play first base.  Have you seen Palka in the outfield?  At least the guy we got can be a two way player.

[jokin]

 

 

I'd like to a see a link to this speculation about Dozier complaining about not getting an extension. He signed the deal he signed so that he could test FA this offseason.

 

That was very public.

 

Yeah. Is this personal agent second-guessing, back-biting, feeling-sorry-for-themselves going on now?

Because it's been pretty open that Dozier was already openly thinking FA at this time a year ago.

[jimmer]

 

Forsythe may benefit from a change of scenery... 
Fun Fact albeit a SSS: Forsythe's highest batting average, slugging percentage, and OPS by ballpark in his career is Target Field... .333 AVG, .600 SLG, 1.021 OPS in 19 PA's

He got to face our pitching...

[jimmer]

 

I'm not sour graping at all......I just don't find it funny. Some of what people thought they'd get for these guys, otoh.....

 

 

Exactly

[Blake]

 

Well, they learned, and dealt Pressley this year......just hoping Gibson (and really, the team) don't do the same thing next year....

I think Pressly can be replaced.

 

Gibson, though, seems to have really turned the corner so, harder to replace. 

[ThejacKmp]

 

Be afraid, be very afraid. Mauer is gone.

 

Up to now, the Twins next two years had Mauer, Vargas and a lot of nobody at 1B/DH. Rooker looked like a second half of 2019 debut but not someone ready at the beginning of the year. Nothing standing in the way of Mauer except the Twins moving Sano to 1B and picking up Morrison’s extension or getting heavily involved in free agency. Given that they have no depth at 3B, Morrison has been awful, and the free agent pool is terrible at 1B unless you really like Nelson Cruz nearing 40, it seemed likely the Twins would bring back Mauer.

 

Not sure if that has changed or not.

 

They acquired Tyler Austin, who seems likely to be in the 1B/DH group next year while serving as a 5th OF. But that certainly doesn’t eliminate Mauer as Austin hits righty and seems to slot into a platoon nicely with Mauer. Luke Raley is another matter since he bats lefty and has spent over half his time at 1B. He figures to start next year in AAA but could make a debut later in the season.

 

Seems to me that neither of these makes Mauer expendable for 2019. Could be a different matter in 2020 when you’ll potentially have Austin, Raley, and Rooker in play for 4th OF, 1B and DH at bats along with Sano and any free agents. Seems like if the Twins do bring back Mauer, it may be on a year-to-year basis rather than a 2 year commitment.

[jokin]

 

 

I would suspect that they had some discussions with him about an extension and Dozier wanted no part of it in lieu of his comments earlier in the year about the Twins not offering him a deal this past offseason.  

 

"I don't want to touch too much on this, it's the thing that gets asked all the time, but at the same time, I will be a free agent this fall. That's the bottom line. You can only say you want to be here so much, and nothing gets done. That's just the way it is. I understand everything. At the same time, you're six months away from free agency. That's intriguing."

 

Personally i don't blame the Twins for not being eager beaver and signing him to an extension given his subsequent atrocious 2018 numbers.  Other than 2016 and 2017 he has been wildly inconsistent throughout his career.

 

Good points all. And I too laud the FO for not succumbing to Dozier's superficially-dazzling but wildly erratic numbers- the previous regime would have already overpaid and Franchised Brianout to 2022.

 

Dozier's actually been sounding off since last July. He's still a leader, though. And the FO playing QO chess with him and either getting a comp pick or that leadership quotient in 2019 still appear to both be better values than making this (strange) trade- which seemingly accomplishes less than nothing.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think Pressly can be replaced.

 

Gibson, though, seems to have really turned the corner so, harder to replace. 

 

Agreed. I just don't want to be sitting here next year, with a sub .500 team, wondering what they could ahve got for Gibson this year.....I want to be buyers next year!

[notoriousgod71]

I haven't seen a dismantling as fast as this from a team that "went for it" during the offseason since the Marlins dumped Reyes, Buehrle, etc.

[jokin]

 

 

Up to now, the Twins next two years had Mauer, Vargas and a lot of nobody at 1B/DH. Rooker looked like a second half of 2019 debut but not someone ready at the beginning of the year. Nothing standing in the way of Mauer except the Twins moving Sano to 1B and picking up Morrison’s extension or getting heavily involved in free agency. Given that they have no depth at 3B, Morrison has been awful, and the free agent pool is terrible at 1B unless you really like Nelson Cruz nearing 40, it seemed likely the Twins would bring back Mauer.

 

Not sure if that has changed or not.

 

They acquired Tyler Austin, who seems likely to be in the 1B/DH group next year while serving as a 5th OF. But that certainly doesn’t eliminate Mauer as Austin hits righty and seems to slot into a platoon nicely with Mauer. Luke Raley is another matter since he bats lefty and has spent over half his time at 1B. He figures to start next year in AAA but could make a debut later in the season.

 

Seems to me that neither of these makes Mauer expendable for 2019. Could be a different matter in 2020 when you’ll potentially have Austin, Raley, and Rooker in play for 4th OF, 1B and DH at bats along with Sano and any free agents. Seems like if the Twins do bring back Mauer, it may be on a year-to-year basis rather than a 2 year commitment.

 

We've just witnessed a pretty significant purge of veteran, and more importantly, fan-favorite Twins. I don't think that Mauer is immune to which direction Falvine apparently intend to go.

 

I think they offer a year-to-year, and then, only at a huge cut and out of "courtesy" to Joe. Will Joe pick up that vibe and accept a drastically reduced contract (and role) or retire?

Edited July 31, 2018 by jokin

[Mike Sixel]

 

Up to now, the Twins next two years had Mauer, Vargas and a lot of nobody at 1B/DH. Rooker looked like a second half of 2019 debut but not someone ready at the beginning of the year. Nothing standing in the way of Mauer except the Twins moving Sano to 1B and picking up Morrison’s extension or getting heavily involved in free agency. Given that they have no depth at 3B, Morrison has been awful, and the free agent pool is terrible at 1B unless you really like Nelson Cruz nearing 40, it seemed likely the Twins would bring back Mauer.

 

Not sure if that has changed or not.

 

They acquired Tyler Austin, who seems likely to be in the 1B/DH group next year while serving as a 5th OF. But that certainly doesn’t eliminate Mauer as Austin hits righty and seems to slot into a platoon nicely with Mauer. Luke Raley is another matter since he bats lefty and has spent over half his time at 1B. He figures to start next year in AAA but could make a debut later in the season.

 

Seems to me that neither of these makes Mauer expendable for 2019. Could be a different matter in 2020 when you’ll potentially have Austin, Raley, and Rooker in play for 4th OF, 1B and DH at bats along with Sano and any free agents. Seems like if the Twins do bring back Mauer, it may be on a year-to-year basis rather than a 2 year commitment.

 

Another option is to move Kepler to 1B, and have Cave and Buxton and Rosario and whomever else in the OF......with Kepler and Sano being able to play OF and 3B and DH, in addition to first. Gives them a ton of flexibility. 

[labcrazy]

 

Up to now, the Twins next two years had Mauer, Vargas and a lot of nobody at 1B/DH. Rooker looked like a second half of 2019 debut but not someone ready at the beginning of the year. Nothing standing in the way of Mauer except the Twins moving Sano to 1B and picking up Morrison’s extension or getting heavily involved in free agency. Given that they have no depth at 3B, Morrison has been awful, and the free agent pool is terrible at 1B unless you really like Nelson Cruz nearing 40, it seemed likely the Twins would bring back Mauer.

 

Not sure if that has changed or not.

 

They acquired Tyler Austin, who seems likely to be in the 1B/DH group next year while serving as a 5th OF. But that certainly doesn’t eliminate Mauer as Austin hits righty and seems to slot into a platoon nicely with Mauer. Luke Raley is another matter since he bats lefty and has spent over half his time at 1B. He figures to start next year in AAA but could make a debut later in the season.

 

Seems to me that neither of these makes Mauer expendable for 2019. Could be a different matter in 2020 when you’ll potentially have Austin, Raley, and Rooker in play for 4th OF, 1B and DH at bats along with Sano and any free agents. Seems like if the Twins do bring back Mauer, it may be on a year-to-year basis rather than a 2 year commitment.

Why would Mauer even consider coming back? The Twins are going to be downright awful next year so he might as well ride off into the sunset and spend time with the family. he doesn't want to be on another 60 win team.

[Tomj14]

 

Agreed. I just don't want to be sitting here next year, with a sub .500 team, wondering what they could ahve got for Gibson this year.....I want to be buyers next year!

And the Twins should have a crap ton of minor league guys to go out and get what they need next year.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Why would Mauer even consider coming back? The Twins are going to be downright awful next year so he might as well ride off into the sunset and spend time with the family. he doesn't want to be on another 60 win team.

 

I'd retire too.....but some people just want to keep going.

[Dantes929]

Maybe the concept of rent a player has been watered down or I just don't get it.   Forsythe has an OPS+ of 53.   Utley has an OPS+ of 82, is horrible against lefties and is 39 years old.   Dozier has an OPS+ of 91.   Dozier has had his usual slow start and I believe is way more likely to get hot and his hot is really hot.    His July OPS+ was 105.     Twins probably don't need Dozier for the rest of the season but he could be a real difference maker for the Dodgers.   That should be part of the equation.    It should hurt the Dodgers a little bit more than what is on the surface a remote lottery pick to get an all star GG player and a significant upgrade.    If I am a Dodgers fan I am loving this move.   As a Twins fan I am in the meh category.    I would hope the Twins could have gotten more in the 10th prospect at least.  Connor Wong at #16 as a catcher might have been a better get  and LA is loaded with catchers.

[Dave The Dastardly]

 

I hope the change of scenery helps Mr. Dozier.

 

What I'm not looking forward to, though, is Motter or Petit at the plate.

 

Put Adrianza in and leave him there.

 

I wonder what Molitor is thinking at this point? If this is all a surprise to him, that says a lot too.

 

Also, supposedly Falvey and Levine addressed the team when they were in Boston. I wonder what was said at the time?

Everybody keep your bags packed. Oh, and don't take any Twins equipment with you. We're cutting the budget next year.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Dave The Dastardly

[Dman]

 

Good points all. And I too laud the FO for not succumbing to Dozier's superficially-dazzling but wildly erratic numbers- the previous regime would have already overpaid and Franchised Brianout to 2022.

 

Dozier's actually been sounding off since last July. He's still a leader, though. And the FO playing QO chess with him and either getting a comp pick or that leadership quotient in 2019 still appear to both be better values than making this (strange) trade- which seemingly accomplishes less than nothing.

 

Whats better than nothing?  Luke Raley.  I'd much rather have him than nothing at all.  Odds are he never makes it,  but odds were Bryan never would either and he made it to an all star game so I'll take my chances with the trade.  Why?  Because it is better than nothing.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Dman

[Blake]

 

Agreed. I just don't want to be sitting here next year, with a sub .500 team, wondering what they could ahve got for Gibson this year.....I want to be buyers next year!

Good starting pitching is such a rare commodity I can see why the FO might be reluctant to part ways with Mr. Gibson. And, it may very well be the FO didn't receive offers of compensation commensurate with the way Gibson has been dealing over the last year.

 

In fact, I'd be shocked if there weren't some offers for Mr. Gibson and if the FO turned the offers down, that's some food for thought, in and of itself.