Brendon Ayanbadejo tackles the subject of gay marriage

[TheLeviathan]

Chris Kluwe is freaking HILARIOUS. Big thumbs up to this follow-up post about his letter:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/outofbounds/2012/09/08/out-of-bounds-blog-no-8-inquisitive-kitten-pawing-at-yarn/

 

Yeah, it's hilarious. But giving the middle finger to people who think discourse > insults is astonishingly stupid. His dad is right - it is much more effective to discuss things like you aren't a thirteen year old.

 

Many of us who watch South Park, laugh at stupid humor, appreciate follow language, make fun of Chuck Norris for his hypocrisy, and all of that still have the maturity to see that his response was not productive. His pre-message misses the point some were trying to make to him. Sometimes it's glorious to be a dick (we built BYTO on that concept) - but don't pretend you're doing anything more than that.

[drjim]

My big problem is this is Kluwe, and his complete lack of the ability to make a point without being an idiot and offending people. This amendment will pass this fall in large part because those in favor of it are unwilling to fight for the support of Republicans. If this was simply about gay rights then the vote would be simple, but the pro no side has made it about so much more. As a Republican who wants to vote no (again on something that will not result in any change), I need to know that the other side is not trashing Republicans in the process. You can't trash everything I believe in and get my vote. Politics is way to important to let the other side get away with this crap.

 

Boo f'ing hoo on this. If the Republicans didn't pass this in the first place to have a vote for a constitutional amendment to protect a law that was already on the books none of this would be an issue. The Republicans were as cynical as anyone putting this on the ballot in an attempt to drive turnout for the election to possibly beat Obama (no chance now) and to hopefully bolster their own chances to maintain control of the Minnesota congress. I have no sympathy that it is turning around on them and they are being called out. It was partisan as soon as it passed along almost entirely party lines and was done as a run around the governor.

[fatbeer]

 

Kluwe's language would barely get bleeped on network TV most evenings

My point has been made. The guy has no restraint.

[Shane Wahl]

That was a brilliant exchange between the three of them, topped off by Kluwe's awesome smackdown. It will be strange to cheer for the punter this year . . . but I have to.

[freshinthehouse]

My big problem is this is Kluwe, and his complete lack of the ability to make a point without being an idiot and offending people.

 

The irony here is astounding.

[biggentleben]

my big problem is this is kluwe, and his complete lack of the ability to make a point without being an idiot and offending people.

 

the irony here is astounding.

 

potd

[diehardtwinsfan]

As a Christian, I find myself rather dismayed with my Christian brothers and sisters on this one. To be clear, I believe homosexuality is wrong, just as divorce, pre-marital sex, extra-marital sex, lust etc. is wrong. Homosexuality fits into those categories as well, and Biblically speaking, you see it as the result of God giving man over to man's own depravity, and not the cause of man's depravity.

 

But...

 

We also have to reconcile the fact that we do not live in a theocracy and that we live in a country where people are free to make decisions that are wrong so long as those decisions do not infringe on the freedoms of others. I fail to see how two homosexuals choosing to get married somehow infringes on my rights as a Christian. I still have the first ammendment right to say it's wrong. I still have the first ammendment right to refuse to recognize/perform gay marriages, and quite honestly, we can coexist peacefully with gays under these circumstances. The problem as I see it is that each side has a very loud vocal minority that tends to drown out the more reasonable folks. This really shoudln't be much of an issue at all.

 

Oh, and if you want some more things to chew on, look up how marriage licenses came to be. Perhaps the church should have told the government to go screw itself back in the Jim Crow days. Had it done so, this would not be an issue at all today.

[Shane Wahl]

How on earth can one legitimately claim that homosexuality is morally wrong?

 

Apply reason, please.

[diehardtwinsfan]

How on earth can one legitimately claim that homosexuality is morally wrong?

 

Apply reason, please.

 

I think you know where I'm coming from. I don't expect you to agree with it. But there are a lot of sin tendancies about people that are very much who they are yet still morally wrong. As an example, I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I like women... way too much. And my struggles are no more or less a sin than the homosexuals. Each of us struggles with something that is integral to our very nature, yet our nature is sinful at its core. I can cop out and simply say "this is the way God made me," but that is an excuse that ignores the fundamental nature of mankind.

 

That said, as I said earlier, despite my opinion on homosexuality, I don't see why homosexuals cannot live freely in this country just as I can.

[Shane Wahl]

How on earth can one legitimately claim that homosexuality is morally wrong?

 

Apply reason, please.

 

I think you know where I'm coming from. I don't expect you to agree with it. But there are a lot of sin tendancies about people that are very much who they are yet still morally wrong. As an example, I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I like women... way too much. And my struggles are no more or less a sin than the homosexuals. Each of us struggles with something that is integral to our very nature, yet our nature is sinful at its core. I can cop out and simply say "this is the way God made me," but that is an excuse that ignores the fundamental nature of mankind.

 

That said, as I said earlier, despite my opinion on homosexuality, I don't see why homosexuals cannot live freely in this country just as I can.

 

Fair enough. Usually if I am morally opposed to something (say like torture, for instance) I want an end to it! Haha. Thanks for the reasonable reply.

[havelock1976]

The fact that the black vote heavily favors bans on gay marriage saddens me to no end. It's so hypocritical that I sit there in stunned silence every time I see an example of it. I don't know how to describe it beyond that.

[PseudoSABR]

The fact that the black vote heavily favors bans on gay marriage saddens me to no end. It's so hypocritical that I sit there in stunned silence every time I see an example of it. I don't know how to describe it beyond that.

It's the Church. A guess, but I'm sure Latino's overwhelmingly disfavor gay marriage as well. I think it's pretty tried-and-true result of oppression--the best way to stop being the Other is to identify and rally against another Other.

[Shane Wahl]

The fact that the black vote heavily favors bans on gay marriage saddens me to no end. It's so hypocritical that I sit there in stunned silence every time I see an example of it. I don't know how to describe it beyond that.

It's the Church. A guess, but I'm sure Latino's overwhelmingly disfavor gay marriage as well. I think it's pretty tried-and-true result of oppression--the best way to stop being the Other is to identify and rally against another Other.

 

Spot on, unfortunately. Great assessment. Anti-gay attitudes are almost exclusively the result of Christian nonsense about sin. It's Christian, but it isn't Christ-ian (love thy neighbor). It's damn weird.

[Squirrel]

My big problem is this is Kluwe, and his complete lack of the ability to make a point without being an idiot and offending people.

 

The irony here is astounding.

 

hahahaha

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's the Church. A guess, but I'm sure Latino's overwhelmingly disfavor gay marriage as well. I think it's pretty tried-and-true result of oppression--the best way to stop being the Other is to identify and rally against another Other.

 

Oh, I know the reasoning. That still doesn't make it right and it still shows a complete lack of sympathy for their fellow man (along with a healthy dose of ignoring recent history). Minorities should be the first ones in line to support gay marriage based on their own ancestors' struggles gaining equality in this country.

[biggentleben]

Spot on, unfortunately. Great assessment. Anti-gay attitudes are almost exclusively the result of Christian nonsense about sin. It's Christian, but it isn't Christ-ian (love thy neighbor). It's damn weird.

 

The religious extremists have certainly taken hold of the anti-homosexual platform in this country, but worldwide it is punishable by death in a number of non-Christian African countries to be caught in a homosexual act. Most Islamic countries have severe punishments for homosexuality, up to and including death. I'm not saying any are right by any means, but to explain this exclusively as a Christian issue is ignoring the issue on a larger, world-wide scale.

[PseudoSABR]

Spot on, unfortunately. Great assessment. Anti-gay attitudes are almost exclusively the result of Christian nonsense about sin. It's Christian, but it isn't Christ-ian (love thy neighbor). It's damn weird.

 

The religious extremists have certainly taken hold of the anti-homosexual platform in this country, but worldwide it is punishable by death in a number of non-Christian African countries to be caught in a homosexual act. Most Islamic countries have severe punishments for homosexuality, up to and including death. I'm not saying any are right by any means, but to explain this exclusively as a Christian issue is ignoring the issue on a larger, world-wide scale.

Of course, the context of our national problem has to do with our largely national religion. I have no doubt that other religions and nations deride gay rights far more than we do, given what I know about women's rights world-wide, it makes total sense. But if the defense of Christianity begins with showing the unmitigated hate found elsewhere in the world, you're going to need an awful lot of Pledge to shine off that halo.

 

If Christianity desires to be a modern spiritual guide post in American lives, it's got to be progressive on this issue. I have a hard time believe that Jesus would vilify gays to the degree his followers do, so the whole premise seems to be an exercise in exclusion, not morality.

[Squirrel]

 

If Christianity desires to be a modern spiritual guide post in American lives, it's got to be progressive on this issue. I have a hard time believe that Jesus would vilify gays to the degree his followers do, so the whole premise seems to be an exercise in exclusion, not morality.

 

Most religions are exclusionary. You need to join, and participate and believe in a specific way. Sure, I could attend services most places (not all) and be welcomed in the door, but in most of most it wouldn't be truly acceptable for me to participate in certain aspects, i.e. communion. This is why I do not participate in any organized religion and why no religion should be a part of governmental policy. No denomination, let alone the whole group as a whole, believes in the same way and leads to greater conflict, imo.