Article: REPORT: Twins to Trade Eduardo Escobar to Arizona

[Riverbrian]

 

Lewis quality? Not really. The poster specifically mentioned trading for impact players, adding these 3 minor leaguers doesn't really move the needle on that possibility.

 

Yes he did and I believe he meant it. 

 

You are kinda splitting hairs on the definition of "impact when you jump immediately to Royce Lewis. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Baseball Prospectus had them at 1.9%

I am sure that's based on their projections too. Where did they have Cleveland preseason?

 

The Twins are obviously a long shot, down 7 games. But down 7 against a flawed Cleveland team and 10 head to head left, behind Berrios and Gibson... well, it doesn't feel like 1%. We've got some control here. Not a ton, down 7 games, but more than 1%.

[Squirrel]

https://youtu.be/j_-qjS37ykk

Geeeez, jokin .... was that supposed to make me feel better?????

 

:cry:

[Otto von Ballpark]

Yes he did and I believe he meant it.

 

You are kinda splitting hairs on the definition of "impact when you jump immediately to Royce Lewis.

We've been over this. Miami could have surely dealt Realmuto by now if a package of mid-tier prospects was all it took. And if they did decide to do that in the future, they would have a dozen or more offers in addition to the Twins.

 

There are ways to justify this Escobar trade, but it just doesn't seem right to claim that it meaningfully moves the needle on that kind of deal.

 

Note I didn't object to Tom's original post (too much, anyway). This does give us more pieces to trade for other players. Just doubtful for "impact" trades like Realmuto.

Edited July 28, 2018 by spycake

[tvagle]

 

There are ways to justify this Escobar trade, but it just doesn't seem right to claim that it meaningfully moves the needle on that kind of deal.

My apologies for being creative with the an adjective that I made up and included Realmuto in it

 

I will be more direct from now on

[Riverbrian]

 

We've been over this. Miami could have surely dealt Realmuto by now if a package of mid-tier prospects was all it took. And if they did decide to do that in the future, they would have a dozen or more offers in addition to the Twins.

There are ways to justify this Escobar trade, but it just doesn't seem right to claim that it meaningfully moves the needle on that kind of deal.

Note I didn't object to Tom's original post (too much, anyway). This does give us more pieces to trade for other players. Just doubtful for "impact" trades like Realmuto.

 

He said "like Realmuto". You don't have to make him choose his adjectives or player representations that carefully. 

 

While my personal trust in the front office evaluations is struggling through waves right now. I'm going to assume that they liked these guys and chose them for the potential to develop so I'm hoping that they think it will move the needle down the road. 

 

If you are thinking about trading for a "Like Realmuto" type right now then yeah... of course but I didn't assume that is what he meant. 

 

 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

My apologies for being creative with the an adjective that I made up and included Realmuto in it

 

I will be more direct from now on

I loved the adjective, don't hold back on more!

 

I could get behind that this makes it easier to acquire Odorizzi or Garcia types. (Not that it's prohibitively difficult to acquire them otherwise.) But I wouldn't call those "impact" players/trades, although they might be useful at times.

[jkcarew]

Twins were going to get nothing for him. Not challenging for anything meaningful in 2019...a theoretical division crowns with 83 or 84 wins does nothing for me...as unlikely as it is. This was the right move. Could they have done better is the only question I would have, but this seems reasonable...and infinitely better than nothing. One of my favorite guys on team. Still, the right move, IMO.

[nicksaviking]

Looks like three intriguing players; even the guy who's not "ranked" is putting up pretty nice numbers. His lack of ranking likely has more to do with his draft position.

 

Good move but it's bittersweet, Escobar was one of my favorites. Here's to the DBacks winning it all and getting him a ring and here's another hoping the Twins see room for a reunion with him this off season.

[TheLeviathan]

I like Escobar and I hope he comes back next year.

 

But I love the approach here by the Twins, rather than take a AAAA guy or someone like that, they went with guys that have high upside tools that could be nice additions if they can develop them.  They weren't scared off by age or level of development, they went for upside.  I will always dig that.

Edited July 28, 2018 by TheLeviathan

[LaBombo]

Not only is this a pale imitation of the FRE by Kimbrel, it may even be a copyright infringement.

[wabene]

I'm not following, Mike.

I'm following Mike

[gil4]

 

So hitting .311/.403/.442 with 8 HR, 56 RBI, and a 45/48 BB/K ratio (De La Trinidad) is meh...What do you think is good?

I'm on page 1 of 6, so this might have been the topic of discussion for 5 pages and I don't know it, but I would say doing that at age 19 or 20 instead of 22 (or doing it in AA at 22.) He was a 19th round pick last year and he's older that the league average. The good news is he's the throw-in on the deal and, while he has some catching up to do, he sure has been hitting so far.

[jorgenswest]

I think the pitcher was they key for them. He may have had more upside than any other player they were offered for Escobar.

[wyowib]

 

I guess I will just have to pretend that Esocobar had a season ending injury, and is now out for the year, and then a free agent. Good luck to the new prospects, who enter a system that has reorganized to the tune of none of their top 3 levels can muster a winning record and establish a culture of winning.

Not too long ago, the top 3 levels were always in the running in their respective leagues.  Those players are now not translating that culture of winning to the MLB level.  I agree that a culture of winning is an important component of development, but perhaps people like dougie baseball were let go because they were too focused on winning in the moment instead of player development.  My big issue with the last FO was their historical failings of developing talent.  This past year, the new FO shook things up and brought in a bunch of new bodies that focus on development (some of the moves were lauded by non-Twins fan analysts).  Consensus tells that and NFL GM should be given 3 years, I've read that new baseball management should be given 5 years to evaluate progress (based on the developmental component of baseball).  This FO wasn't even 6 months in before people started attacking them for the non-Dozier trade.  They're less than 2 years in, have shown to think outside the box and adapt, have been roundly praised by non-Twins-fan analysts, yet, there's a loud voice that seems to want them to fail, criticizing even the smallest move they make.  Some moves are confusing, which every fan of every team deals with, but I love the direction this FO is taking the team, and I have more hope for sustained success for this team than I've had in almost 2 decades. 

[drew_7726]

 

Dozier to Milwaukee is next I would imagine

I thought it would have been too nut apparently it was pressly.

[drew_7726]

 

Not too long ago, the top 3 levels were always in the running in their respective leagues.  Those players are now not translating that culture of winning to the MLB level.  I agree that a culture of winning is an important component of development, but perhaps people like dougie baseball were let go because they were too focused on winning in the moment instead of player development.  My big issue with the last FO was their historical failings of developing talent.  This past year, the new FO shook things up and brought in a bunch of new bodies that focus on development (some of the moves were lauded by non-Twins fan analysts).  Consensus tells that and NFL GM should be given 3 years, I've read that new baseball management should be given 5 years to evaluate progress (based on the developmental component of baseball).  This FO wasn't even 6 months in before people started attacking them for the non-Dozier trade.  They're less than 2 years in, have shown to think outside the box and adapt, have been roundly praised by non-Twins-fan analysts, yet, there's a loud voice that seems to want them to fail, criticizing even the smallest move they make.  Some moves are confusing, which every fan of every team deals with, but I love the direction this FO is taking the team, and I have more hope for sustained success for this team than I've had in almost 2 decades. 

I completely agree!!

[Rosterman]

A possible back-of-the-rotation arm and a couple of promising outfielders. What makes the additional outfield talent a plus is that you aren't tied into extending Kepler or Buxton yet if you don't wish, and you can dangle Rosario out there next season, if you wish (and the comments we all make about his bat and glove seems like someone we don't trust).

 

I can almost say for certain that the Twins had no intention on making a qualifying offer to Escobar. I doubt that they wanted to spend $25 million over three seasons to extend him. Now they will have the opportunity to enter the bidding war for him in the off-season if Eduardo doesn't resign with Arizona right away. 

 

Our question now is: can Sano come abck sooner rather than later and play third.

[rdehring]

Losing Escobar is a real hit in the gut for me.  One of my favorite Twins.  A young man who was a real asset to the organization, on the field, in the clubhouse and in the community.  The FO will make my day, hell make my winter, if they can figure out a way to get him back next winter...although I suspect that is a long shot!

 

But is it realistic to expect the Twins to make the playoffs this year...no.  So this move, and others to come, are the correct decisions for management.  Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.

[Han Joelo]

 

Losing Escobar is a real hit in the gut for me.  One of my favorite Twins.  A young man who was a real asset to the organization, on the field, in the clubhouse and in the community.  The FO will make my day, hell make my winter, if they can figure out a way to get him back next winter...although I suspect that is a long shot!

 

But is it realistic to expect the Twins to make the playoffs this year...no.  So this move, and others to come, are the correct decisions for management.  Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.

 

 

Ozzie Guillen agrees--from a June 30th Pioneer Press article:

That, along with his stunning production, should make Escobar extremely marketable this summer should the Twins continue their downturn and begin to sell off parts for future help. Set to reach free agency for the first time this winter, Escobar could soon find himself in a new uniform and a pressure-packed pennant race.

“If Escobar gets traded, I don’t mind if he gets traded somewhere to help,” Guillen said. “But I would be back after that to play for the Minnesota Twins again. That’s what I would say to him.”

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/06/30/twins-eduardo-escobar-has-turned-into-ozzie-guillens-greatest-discovery/

[NotTorii]

If they would have waited, made him a qualifying offer, if he refused it - they'd get a 1st round pick - that right?  Well, they didn't get a first rounder - typical Twins move - Dozier in the same category with a qualifying offer - they'll probably not get a 1st rounder for him either.  More mediocrity!

[Otto von Ballpark]

If they would have waited, made him a qualifying offer, if he refused it - they'd get a 1st round pick - that right?

No, it would be more like a third rounder under the new system. Like #75-80.

[Dave The Dastardly]

 

Oh joy. More prospects. And not even a top 10 in their system. Quite the deal makers, this new front office. Throwing in the towel. 

Never could understand the excitement over accumulating prospects. I always thought the number of major league wins was more important than the number of "prospects" we can garner in a trade. Of course if the Twins horizon is out in some galaxy far, far away...

[OldTimeTwinkie]

From the Arizona Republic:

 

Of the three prospects the Diamondbacks gave up in the Escobar deal, right-hander Johan Duran is regarded as having the highest ceiling and was, perhaps, the hardest to part with, at least by judging general manager Mike Hazen's comments "we like him a lot, " Hazen said "he's a power arm, right-handed pitcher and he's got a ton of upside. He's got huge velocity and we like him as a future starter. We're sad to see him go."

Duran has a fastball that touches the upper 90s along with the power curve. Scout say Duran made strides this year in his command but still has a ways to go in that department. He also needs to continue to develop his changeup, they say, in order to remain a starting pitcher.

 

Nothing was said about the other two prospects.

[70charger]

Losing Escobar is a real hit in the gut for me. One of my favorite Twins. A young man who was a real asset to the organization, on the field, in the clubhouse and in the community. The FO will make my day, hell make my winter, if they can figure out a way to get him back next winter...although I suspect that is a long shot!

 

But is it realistic to expect the Twins to make the playoffs this year...no. So this move, and others to come, are the correct decisions for management. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.

Well put. I agree with the move, but damn do I hate it.

[jorgenswest]

Duran appears to be the key here for the Twins. If he was available in the draft this summer at age 20 I don’t think he lasts until pick 75.

[Battle ur tail off]

Don't hate the fact that they moved him if they weren't gonna try to keep him for next year. The return isn't as good as I would have hoped, but I guess that is what a rental type player of his caliber goes for. 

 

The people that say he will sign back here or that the Twins will even attempt it though are probably fooling themselves. This rarely, if ever happens. 

[Squirrel]

Well put. I agree with the move, but damn do I hate it.

Yeah. I cried myself to sleep last night which sucks because I’m all puffy and headachy today.

 

Okay, not really, but that’s how I feel saying good bye to Esco.

[Kato87]

MLB pipeline post trades Twin's prospect rankings:
Jorge Alcala #11-RHP
Gilberto Celestino #14-OF
Gabriel Maciel #17-OF
Jhoan Duran #22-RHP

In the era of HR or K, the 2 OFs don't fit the mode.  They are more like Buxton.  Is the FO starting a do opposite strategy? Twins lack power in the minors outside Kirilloff and Rooker.  

I'm ok, Escobar trade he's a rental, but regarding Pressly or potential Gibson trade, 
they need quality instead quantity.  The surplus of prospects does not help much they are not marketable trading pieces

They to need sign Esco as FA.  Twins rank 24th in HR hit and looks to get worst in 2019 w/o Esco & Dozier.  


 

[nicksaviking]

MLB pipeline post trades Twin's prospect rankings:

Jorge Alcala #11-RHP

Gilberto Celestino #14-OF

Gabriel Maciel #17-OF

Jhoan Duran #22-RHP

In the era of HR or K, the 2 OFs don't fit the mode.  They are more like Buxton.  Is the FO starting a do opposite strategy? Twins lack power in the minors outside Kirilloff and Rooker.  

I'm ok, Escobar trade he's a rental, but regarding Pressly or potential Gibson trade, 

they need quality instead quantity.  The surplus of prospects does not help much they are not marketable trading pieces

 

Judging by the last two days the prospects are valuable trading piec s.

 

I'm not sure if the outfielders will develop power, but I've long advocated for the Twins to be trend setters, not followers. If a team is going to break the current fad if HR/K exclusivity, it's going to be to continually load the bases with high OBP guys.