Twins stuff from around the Web (Fangraphs, Twitter, Athletic, non-local news sites, etc)

[Vanimal46]

The Twins announced today that Mauer's number 7 will be retired.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Come on, folks. The Twins offer to Darvish wasn’t even close to the Cubs offer.

 

Cubs: 6/126, opt out, no trade, incentives

 

Twins: estimated 5/105 at best with no other perks

 

It was an unserious offer and at some point the Twins would have known that.

[Thrylos]

 

Come on, folks. The Twins offer to Darvish wasn’t even close to the Cubs offer.

Cubs: 6/126, opt out, no trade, incentives

Twins: estimated 5/105 at best with no other perks

It was an unserious offer and at some point the Twins would have known that.

 

if an offer of $105 million is unserious (sic),  I'd love some of that funny money...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

if an offer of $105 million is unserious (sic),  I'd love some of that funny money...

Well, that’s the market for these guys. It would be as if the Twins offered Machado 5/105, and then all of us praising the team for their willingness to spend.

[Thrylos]

 

Well, that’s the market for these guys. It would be as if the Twins offered Machado 5/105, and then all of us praising the team for their willingness to spend.

 

You do realize that the Cubs' offer and the Twins' offer to Darvish had the same annual value ($21M,) and the Cubs were the only team to go for 6 years, correct?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

You do realize that the Cubs' offer and the Twins' offer to Darvish had the same annual value ($21M,) and the Cubs were the only team to go for 6 years, correct?

Yes I realize it, it’s also irrelevant.

 

Ok, so “lowball” and “unserious” are loaded terms, my apologies. But it’s perfectly fair to say the Twins did not make a competitive offer for Darvish.

 

The offers were close in annual value (an educated guess), but it was 5 years, versus 6 years and all the extras.

[bird]

 

Come on, folks. The Twins offer to Darvish wasn’t even close to the Cubs offer.

Cubs: 6/126, opt out, no trade, incentives

Twins: estimated 5/105 at best with no other perks

It was an unserious offer and at some point the Twins would have known that.

 

 

A matter of perspective. 

[bird]

 

Well, that’s the market for these guys. It would be as if the Twins offered Machado 5/105, and then all of us praising the team for their willingness to spend.

 

 

This is an extremely distorted point of view. My first thought was that you were trolling, but you're serious, aren't you?

 

Edit: I see that you sort of retracted the lowball and unserious descriptions. 

[Riverbrian]

Bottom line: If you want the player you have to pay the price. It’s a very simple equation.

 

If the Twins fell short of the price. It signifies a limit on how much they actually want that player and Establishing those limits is a condition of the job they do.

 

I was on them to sign Darvish but they got me salivating by showing up in the rumors.

 

I say today what I said then. If you really want the player you pay the price.

 

Obviously there was a limit to how much they wanted the player and I forgive them for that.

[Mr. Brooks]

He was never signing without a player opt out, period.

Any offer that didn't include one was not a serious offer.

The Twins were second only because the other teams that weren't willing to include the player opt out didn't bother to make an offer.

[bird]

 

He was never signing without a player opt out, period.
Any offer that didn't include one was not a serious offer.
The Twins were second only because the other teams that weren't willing to include the player opt out didn't bother to make an offer.

 

 

If a marquee player only gets one "serious" offer and is rejected by the other 29 teams, I'd say that in and of itself exonerates 29 teams and put the scrutiny on the sole "serious" team.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If a marquee player only gets one "serious" offer and is rejected by the other 29 teams, I'd say that in and of itself exonerates 29 teams and put the scrutiny on the sole "serious" team.

Well, there was one report that the Dodgers made a similar offer to the Cubs.

 

But yes if there’s one team on an island, bidding against itself, that is something to consider when talking about his market.

[bird]

 

Bottom line: If you want the player you have to pay the price. It’s a very simple equation.

If the Twins fell short of the price. It signifies a limit on how much they actually want that player and Establishing those limits is a condition of the job they do.

I was on them to sign Darvish but they got me salivating by showing up in the rumors.

I say today what I said then. If you really want the player you pay the price.

Obviously there was a limit to how much they wanted the player and I forgive them for that.

 

 

There's usually going to be a limit, no matter how much you like a player, and it's a rare case when someone else doesn't also really want the player.

 

It's like trying to buy a house. Even if everyone in the family agrees all the time, the choices get narrowed down, but you never get an exclusive bargaining window. You never know who else is serious, and exactly what they're offering. You have a budget in mind. Your mortgage banker has told you what you qualify for too. You hope there's more than one house you love to choose from. There's not a lot of time to deliberate because everybody sees the listings.

 

If you really love the house, you put in the most aggressive offer you can.

 

That's what happened in the Darvish case. Condemning the organization for coming in second on that one demonstrates a rather narrow and singular point of view.

[Riverbrian]

There's usually going to be a limit, no matter how much you like a player, and it's a rare case when someone else doesn't also really want the player.

 

It's like trying to buy a house. Even if everyone in the family agrees all the time, the choices get narrowed down, but you never get an exclusive bargaining window. You never know who else is serious, and exactly what they're offering. You have a budget in mind. Your mortgage banker has told you what you qualify for too. You hope there's more than one house you love to choose from. There's not a lot of time to deliberate because everybody sees the listings.

 

If you really love the house, you put in the most aggressive offer you can.

 

That's what happened in the Darvish case. Condemning the organization for coming in second on that one demonstrates a rather narrow and singular point of view.

Yeah I get that. The Eagles knew how things work in life. They say “take it to the limit”. Taking it over the limit is not how the song goes.

 

But again, if you really really want the player you must pay the price. Hoping the price comes down to your limit (setting limits is sensible) is going to leave you empty handed more times that it doesn’t. Thank God Darvish wasn’t the only pitcher on earth so they could do try something else.

[nicksaviking]

 

Yeah I get that. The Eagles knew how things work in life. They say “take it to the limit”. Taking it over the limit is not how the song goes.

But again, if you really really want the player you must pay the price. Hoping the price comes down to your limit (setting limits is sensible) is going to leave you empty handed more times that it doesn’t. Thank God Darvish wasn’t the only pitcher on earth so they could do try something else.

 

I really wanted Darvish last year, but looking back, I'm fairly certain half of my enthusiasm was drummed up by all the reports that the Twins were actually in on him and I was unaccustomed to my team chasing a big name.

 

The Twins were never tied to Patrick Corbin this year and I looked at all of his warts and red flags early and cared not at all that the Twins weren't going to get him. 

[Riverbrian]

I really wanted Darvish last year, but looking back, I'm fairly certain half of my enthusiasm was drummed up by all the reports that the Twins were actually in on him and I was unaccustomed to my team chasing a big name.

 

The Twins were never tied to Patrick Corbin this year and I looked at all of his warts and red flags early and cared not at all that the Twins weren't going to get him.

I remember having the money divided up in my head for bullpen acquisitions and then rumors serviced and I’m thinking “we got a new sheriff in town” and I allowed myself to consider the possibility.

 

Silly Me!

 

Anyway, this year I’m taking a completely different approach. I’m going to try avoid specific names, budgets and just hope for an operational 25 man roster with the players they choose.

 

When 2019 comes around and if I hear the excuses that we really expected more out of Sano and Buxton... I will be all over them.

 

So I’m sitting back and saying. C’mon front office... show me what you learned.

[KirbyDome89]

FWIW the Twins were public about targeting Darvish before the market took a nosedive last offseason. He was projected to sign a deal upwards of $160M at that time. The Cubs ended up getting him for $126M....

 

I'm not sure why this organization is getting a pat on the back for attempting to spend money that had no chance of being accepted. 

[sdangus]

I don't think $150 Million was ever realistic for Darvish, and if it was the Twins should not have been involved. The league is littered with bad conracts for beyond their prime FA signings that never should have gotten the money they got. Thank goodness our guys were sensible enough to not go there.

I think the way to go is like Cleveland and Tampa Bay andsign your young players to long extensioms and avoid the enormous free agent contracts. Then you can still use the free agent market to sign role players to 1 or 2 year contracts to fill out your roster if needed.

As far as Darvish goes, all I can say is "Thank God for unanswered prayers".

[nicksaviking]

 

I remember having the money divided up in my head for bullpen acquisitions and then rumors serviced and I’m thinking “we got a new sheriff in town” and I allowed myself to consider the possibility.

Silly Me!

Anyway, this year I’m taking a completely different approach. I’m going to try avoid specific names, budgets and just hope for an operational 25 man roster with the players they choose.

When 2019 comes around and if I hear the excuses that we really expected more out of Sano and Buxton... I will be all over them.

So I’m sitting back and saying. C’mon front office... show me what you learned.

 

This is what I would like everyone to get past. I'd like to expect absolutely nothing from those two and just enjoy the surprise should they produce. I don't want to expect anything from any player who hasn't already surpassed and sustained expectations.

 

But if that's also the front office's opinion, it might also be the reason for the unpopular rebuild, this team needs to develop more dependable players, they have all of about three on the 40-man currently. You don't need 25 dependable players to succeed, but I'd think it would need to be way more than they currently have.

[Riverbrian]

This is what I would like everyone to get past. I'd like to expect absolutely nothing from those two and just enjoy the surprise should they produce. I don't want to expect anything from any player who hasn't already surpassed and sustained expectations.

 

But if that's also the front office's opinion, it might also be the reason for the unpopular rebuild, this team needs to develop more dependable players, they have all of about three on the 40-man currently. You don't need 25 dependable players to succeed, but I'd think it would need to be way more than they currently have.

My expectations for Rosario and the other players who most are worrying about are also in check. I’m not ready for the rebuild part two because we got some raw talent but there is simply no way I could write Buxton or Sano’s name on the big board with no safety net behind them. I want 25 players on the roster in case 8 of them struggle or get hurt.

[big dog]

 

Well, there was one report that the Dodgers made a similar offer to the Cubs.

But yes if there’s one team on an island, bidding against itself, that is something to consider when talking about his market.

That's known as the "winner's curse".

[Mr. Brooks]

There's usually going to be a limit, no matter how much you like a player, and it's a rare case when someone else doesn't also really want the player.

 

It's like trying to buy a house. Even if everyone in the family agrees all the time, the choices get narrowed down, but you never get an exclusive bargaining window. You never know who else is serious, and exactly what they're offering. You have a budget in mind. Your mortgage banker has told you what you qualify for too. You hope there's more than one house you love to choose from. There's not a lot of time to deliberate because everybody sees the listings.

 

If you really love the house, you put in the most aggressive offer you can.

 

That's what happened in the Darvish case. Condemning the organization for coming in second on that one demonstrates a rather narrow and singular point of view.

If the listing says "buyer MUST pay all assessments", and yet you make an offer refusing to pay the assessments, then you never had a chance.

 

Darvish's listing said buyer MUST give a player opt out, one team was always going to give it to him, and the Twins refused.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Come on, folks. The Twins offer to Darvish wasn’t even close to the Cubs offer.

Cubs: 6/126, opt out, no trade, incentives

Twins: estimated 5/105 at best with no other perks

It was an unserious offer and at some point the Twins would have known that.

Is this sarcasm?  It's nearly the same length with the same AAV; perks aside. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Another thing about Darvish's contract. It's not a steady $21 million per year. The first season was weighted more than the later seasons, leaving 5/101 remaining. 

[amjgt]

ESPN Insider article: http://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/25571957/brewers-rays-twins-know-how-play-winter-waiting-game

 

Talks about how the Rays, Twins, and Brewers have been "playing the waiting game" on free agents to find good mid-tier deals.

[Jim Hahn]

My expectations for Rosario and the other players who most are worrying about are also in check. I’m not ready for the rebuild part two because we got some raw talent but there is simply no way I could write Buxton or Sano’s name on the big board with no safety net behind them. I want 25 players on the roster in case 8 of them struggle or get hurt.

To me the safety net you are talking about should include include guys on the 40 man roster. Granite, Wade, and Gordon have all gotten to AAA. If they aren't considered likely/possible replacements for injuries or poor performances, they shouldn't be on the 40 man. Actually any highly rated prospect who has reached AA should be in that category.

 

This is the whole point of building a strong farm system. You should have at least several ready or nearly ready prospects in system at all times to be the safety net. 4 A guys should just be short term replacements or backups to backups. Most major league backups are versatile guys or role player types. Even on good teams.

 

What you want and sometimes you don't really have enough of these guys, is for your near ready top level prospects, to be your depth in case of injury or non performance. It looks like, maybe, the Twins are getting close to that goal.

[Vanimal46]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/12/19/minnesota-twins-bryce-harper-mlb-free-agent/2363092002/

[bird]

 

If the listing says "buyer MUST pay all assessments", and yet you make an offer refusing to pay the assessments, then you never had a chance.

Darvish's listing said buyer MUST give a player opt out, one team was always going to give it to him, and the Twins refused.

 

 

Thankfully. The realtor apparently told them to let someone else pay way over market for the house, because it might need a new roof and the street was full of potholes.

[nicksaviking]

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/12/19/minnesota-twins-bryce-harper-mlb-free-agent/2363092002/

 

That seems like an easy question. Quantity over quality seems to be a losing mentality to me, so go spend your money on one spot, not a half dozen that only make minimal improvements.

 

I think that article forgets to ask a major question though, would Harper, or any superstar free agent, come to Minnesota even if the Twins laid out the best offer? I have my doubts about that unless the player in question has local ties. I think the bigger spotlights, the bigger endorsement deals and more fame carry more weight than we think.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

would Harper, or any superstar free agent, come to Minnesota even if the Twins laid out the best offer?

 

Based on the 9.85% state income tax, the Twins offer has to be about 5% better than those of teams in states of ~5% income tax (includes the division rivals in OH,IL,KS,MI) and 10% better than teams in FL, AZ etc that do not have state tax to be equivalent.

 

So a Twins $11M offer in AAV is just equivalent (not better) to a Diamondbacks $10M offer or Indians $10.5M pretty much.

 

So if Harper has a $200M offer on the table from the Phillies (3.07% income tax in PA), they would need to offer $213.6M to just match it.

 

(rough math because 1/2 of someone's salary is used to pay tax in away games, but still...)

 

People don't think about it generally, but it is an issue.