Kohl and Tyler: will we ever see them?

[caninatl04]

What’s done is done. Rather than go back and re-draft the years where the (previous) FO thought that college relievers would make excellent, top ‘o the rotation aces, may I ask instead to look forward.

Ignoring a September call up, might either Kohl or Tyler ever add to the Twins? Ever?

[Mike Sixel]

I think Kohl will.......Tyler is baffling, in that he should be at least a good RP, but isn't....so no idea.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Kohl is a minor league FA this offseason I think... if so, he needs to be added to the 40 man to stay in MN. Given his improvement this year, I could see that happening. The problem is that we have way too may SPs on the 40 man... I have to wonder if the team will try and trade some of them at some point to fill in holes that are in other spots.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Kohl is a minor league FA this offseason I think...

I don't think so. Drafted in 2013, this offseason will be Stewart's 6th contract renewal. After 2019 he would be eligible for minor league FA.

 

Stewart will be Rule 5 eligible again this winter, of course. Jay will be a first time Rule 5 eligible.

[twins_89]

I have little doubt Jay will get a chance as a reliever in the majors, probably next season (with an outside chance of a September call-up this year). 

 

Stewart is more questionable. I'm moderately optimistic about his chances due to his drastically improved SO/9 and SO/BB ratio this season (though it isn't really reflected in his ERA). For the first time he's striking out over a batter an inning and a 3.3 SO/BB is fairly good as well. At the end of last season I'd mostly written Kohl off, but he's given me a reason to hope again.

[Vanimal46]

Kohl is a minor league FA this offseason I think... if so, he needs to be added to the 40 man to stay in MN. Given his improvement this year, I could see that happening. The problem is that we have way too may SPs on the 40 man... I have to wonder if the team will try and trade some of them at some point to fill in holes that are in other spots.

Like every season, there will be fat to trim on the 40 man. Fringe players will be replaced by younger fringe players. It's way too early to think they will have too many SPs for 2019.

[ashbury]

The problem is that we have way too may SPs on the 40 man... I have to wonder if the team will try and trade some of them at some point to fill in holes that are in other spots.

The only trades that would bring back something of value would be the few guys with a track record of any substance in the majors. That would amount to a big gamble on the unproven ones. I wish I believed our front office was as good at evaluation as my OOTP computer-game scouting director always is.

[gunnarthor]

I'd guess yes on Jay and probably not on Stewart. I think he leaves the org at the end of the year. I think both will pitch in the majors though.

[Seth Stohs]

 

What’s done is done. Rather than go back and re-draft the years where the (previous) FO thought that college relievers would make excellent, top ‘o the rotation aces, may I ask instead to look forward.
Ignoring a September call up, might either Kohl or Tyler ever add to the Twins? Ever?

 

I think they both will. Jay has been good most of the last month. I think he's given up a run in just one of his last eight games. Hopefully he's turned a corner, is healthy and confident in that health. I think Kohl will, though it may be a bullpen role. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

I don't think so. Drafted in 2013, this offseason will be Stewart's 6th contract renewal. After 2019 he would be eligible for minor league FA.

 

Stewart will be Rule 5 eligible again this winter, of course. Jay will be a first time Rule 5 eligible.

 

All true. 

[jkcarew]

I think it would be a mistake for the organization to expose Stewart again and loose him without giving him a serious look in a RP role.

[nater79a]

 

Kohl is a minor league FA this offseason I think... if so, he needs to be added to the 40 man to stay in MN. Given his improvement this year, I could see that happening. The problem is that we have way too may SPs on the 40 man... I have to wonder if the team will try and trade some of them at some point to fill in holes that are in other spots.

 

I think Kohl's role would be as a reliever.  Not sure he goes deep enough in games to warrant being a starter.  Five or six innings on a consistent basis isn't going to get it done.

 

That being said, I'd give him a look as a pen arm in September.  

 

Think along the lines of Alex Wimmers.

 

 

[DocBauer]

Please, if I'm truly wrong here, or am forgetting someone due to life intruding on my memory, then correct me. But I get frustrated at times when I hear about all the great players that found success elsewhere after the Twins let them go. Seems everyone is still bent out of shape about Ortiz and the solid, but not great Portugal, who also had some down years and bounced around here and there. The Twins have benefited in the past from guys let go by other organizations. It happens. It's the nature of sports. You hope you guess more right than the other guys at times.

 

That being said...off my soapbox...Stewart and Jay have been polarizing and frustrating based on draft status and potential. Stewart has often been young, or at worst, average age for the level he has been at. Despite great stuff and low SO totals, he's also consistently produced weak contact numbers. That, combined with his slow introduction to full time baseball...having previously been a football primary guy...and at least some innuendo, fair or not, concerning his diabetes and attitude, (reflecting innuendo, not stating facts)...Ive had a feeling he was going to be a late bloomer who you just didn't want to give up on too soon. And I was very happy we didn't lose him last off season for that reason. Is he a late blooming SP or reliever? I can't say as of yet. But I feel the best thing the Twins did was challenge him by moving him to Rochester.

 

I think they should do the same thing with Jay. As stated, he should not be penalized because the SP experiment was determined to be failed. (Though the FO stated it could be re-visted, and was arguably abandoned early). And there have been some DL stints here and there. What is not in doubt, however, is a universal opinion that the guy has the pure stuff to be a quality to high quality reliever. And if you've really followed the game for a long period of time, you have seen a ton of quality and high quality RP evolve after failing, or being marginal, as a SP. Or overcoming injuries. Or learning a new pitch. In some rare cases, they were a position player who turned to the mound. Despite disappointment, Jay is relatively young. Especially for a reliever, who again often flounder elsewhere before finding themselves in the pen. I honestly believe the best thing the Twins could for him at this point is provide a change of scenery, and a new challenge, and promote him to AAA.

[DocBauer]

I think Kohl's role would be as a reliever.  Not sure he goes deep enough in games to warrant being a starter.  Five or six innings on a consistent basis isn't going to get it done.

 

That being said, I'd give him a look as a pen arm in September.  

 

Think along the lines of Alex Wimmers.

Maybe he can yet prove to be a solid starter. Time will tell. But I agree, what if he could be a high quality RP? Think about Guardado, Aguilera, Trombley, just to spit out a few former starters who turned out to be great bullpen guys. Forget draft status and expectations for a moment. Yes, you want and need a quality rotation! But at the end of the day, you want guys who get it done! If hope was you'd be a stud starter, but you turned out to be a stud reliever, how is that a bad thing at the end of the day?

[Doctor Wu]

 

I think Kohl's role would be as a reliever.  Not sure he goes deep enough in games to warrant being a starter.  Five or six innings on a consistent basis isn't going to get it done.

 

That being said, I'd give him a look as a pen arm in September.  

 

Think along the lines of Alex Wimmers.

You beat me to it. Wimmers was just the name I was going to use for comparison's sake. But I'm holding out hope that Stewart has more potential than that.

[Taildragger8791]

Stewart's K and BB numbers are considerably better, but it's hard to evaluate with K rates in the Southern and International league hovering at or close to 9 per 9 innings. His BABIP and hits have climbed quite a bit...so is he just throwing in the zone more (or throwing a different pitch mix) and as a result gets more Ks and fewer BBs, but at the trade-off of giving up more quality contact? Looks like he's still getting a lot of grounders, so that's not the problem. Has anyone with eyes on him reported on what's going on?

[nicksaviking]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. My only complaint in these situations where prospects don't pan out is when the Twins lose a starting pitcher who once had promise without ever giving them a full year in the bullpen. I think they should have moved Stewart to the pen long ago to see if they could recoup any value, I think it's too late now unless they hang onto him next year as well. Pitchers tend not to take off until a full offseason of preparing for that role.

[Loosey]

I haven't been following Stewart as close as I used to, so correct me if I am wrong, but he is a hard thrower that seems to limit hard contact and is now getting more K's.  

 

Is he going to develop into the Ace you would hope a top 5 overall pick develops into? Probably not.  But if he can become a reliever in the Majors his stuff could play out of the pen very well.  Or, he could become a back-end starter.  How many times have the Twins over-paid for back end starters?  Correa, Pelfrey, Nolasco.  Now hopefully he is much better than those three, but having a guy in your system who can just come out out every 5th day and give you a shot to win and be very cheap is huge in my opinion.  

 

If I could construct an optimal Rotation I would spend my money on the front end and then supplement my back-end with solid internal homegrown options who are more than just filler.  And it appears the Twins could have a few options to do that soon with Gonsalves and Stewart.  Then spend money on the big boys up front.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

It’d be hard to convince me Kohl Stewart is any worse than Matt Belisle right now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. My only complaint in these situations where prospects don't pan out is when the Twins lose a starting pitcher who once had promise without ever giving them a full year in the bullpen. I think they should have moved Stewart to the pen long ago to see if they could recoup any value, I think it's too late now unless they hang onto him next year as well. Pitchers tend not to take off until a full offseason of preparing for that role.

As long as he doesn't get picked in Rule 5, it will cost the Twins virtually nothing to keep Stewart another year (just the AAA roster spot), so perhaps this is the plan.

[mlhouse]

Based on my observation of Kohl Stewart, the answer is no. When I have watched him he had good control of his fastball but it is not overpowering.   His changeup is very mediocre but exists.  What hurts Stewart is that his slider stays in the same plane so even low level minor leaguers can make contact with it.  AS he moved through the system, ths more advanced players could make solid contact against his slider, and major league players will hammer it if it near the zone.

 

To change this and add more movement, he needed to change his arm angle.  But his arm  injuries in his career means he probably cannot do this.

 

I have not seen Tyler Jay pitch.   

[nicksaviking]

 

As long as he doesn't get picked in Rule 5, it will cost the Twins virtually nothing to keep Stewart another year (just the AAA roster spot), so perhaps this is the plan.

 

Looks like next year is year seven, not this year. I thought I read that he was a minor league free agent next year. So yeah, odds are he's still here next year. Move him to the pen ASAP, he needs to go into next year knowing and preparing for that role.

[nater79a]

 

You beat me to it. Wimmers was just the name I was going to use for comparison's sake. But I'm holding out hope that Stewart has more potential than that.

 

For sure.   I think we're both throwing out Wimmers' name as an example of a pitcher that didn't quite meet expectations as a starter but then was converted to a reliever.

[Steve Lein]

Jay has been pretty good the last month or so. See last entry in my Adopt-A-Prospect for him:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/29282-tyler-jay-2018/

 

I still think they will both pitch in MLB. I'm interested in a bullpen see-what-you-got finish to this season for Kohl.

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

correct me if I'm wrong, but Kohl is a FA this offseason... so he has to be put on the 40 man this fall if we want to keep him here, correct?

[DocBauer]

Jay has been pretty good the last month or so. See last entry in my Adopt-A-Prospect for him:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/29282-tyler-jay-2018/

 

I still think they will both pitch in MLB. I'm interested in a bullpen see-what-you-got finish to this season for Kohl.

All the more reason Jay should be promoted to Rochester and challenge him the same way they are challenging Stewart, IMO.

[Otto von Ballpark]

correct me if I'm wrong, but Kohl is a FA this offseason... so he has to be put on the 40 man this fall if we want to keep him here, correct?

Stewart is not a free agent yet, still just Rule 5 this offseason . Eligible for minor league free agency after next season.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Jay has been pretty good the last month or so.

Jay still isn't generating many K's, 16 in 14.2 IP over the last 28 days. League K/9 is an even 9.0, and it is probably higher among just relievers.

 

Jay is still giving up hits too -- fewer than in May and June, but he's given up at least one hit in all but 2 games this year, including his last 6 games.

 

I'm pretty sure he will make MLB as well, but for how long? He is a very interesting Rule 5 case this winter.