The Heimlich maneuver

[Monkeypaws]

We all heard the sad story of Luke Heimlich:

 

https://deadspin.com/mlb-prospect-luke-heimlich-denies-molesting-his-niece-1825831942

 

Watching this kid deal in the college WS. Filthy lefty stuff.

 

I know people at Oregon State, good people. If he's good enough for them, why not the Twins?

 

Sure, reprehensible stuff. He maintains innocence in spite of the guilty plea.

 

I know it came up before, and I'm not necessarily advocating a convicted child molester to the team, but I am also extremely skeptical of the legal justice system in this country. 

 

BTW Larnach just ripped a double to start the 2nd.

[KirbyDome89]

He's certainly good enough talent wise, the question is whether a team wants to take on the PR that will follow his signing. I can understand why some wouldn't want him on the Twins, although I don't think I'd protest the organization signing an individual who likely would've been a high round pick. The only issue I've ever had is the idea that he "shouldn't be allowed," to play for a MiLB or MLB team. 

[Mike Sixel]

I might consider it, if he took responsibility, but I really doubt it. Sounds like KC is going to sign him.

[gunnarthor]

I think the Twins are really blowing a chance to add pitching talent b/c of a PR issue.

[Vanimal46]

There are thousands of players who get paid to play baseball. Anyone else, please... I really don't want to root for this guy now or in the future.

[laloesch]

No thanks....i'll pass

[mlhouse]

My question is if he did this when he was 15 years old, why do we know anything about it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

My question is if he did this when he was 15 years old, why do we know anything about it.

 

because the newspaper found out....

[Monkeypaws]

 

My question is if he did this when he was 15 years old, why do we know anything about it.

I belive the fit hit the shans after he started at OSU.

 

It would be a huge leap of faith, and the fact nobody spent a pick on him, in spite of the pre-draft interviews that likely took place, well....

 

He is a great lefty pitcher tho.

 

BTW, Larnach just set a CWS record with 5 doubles, even tho it was a lucky lost in the sun job.

 

[mlhouse]

 

because the newspaper found out....

 

Shouldn't his minor record have been protected?  

[Mr. Brooks]

Shouldn't his minor record have been protected?

The sealing of his record was dependent upon him fulfilling the terms of his suspended sentence, which he failed to do.

[Platoon]

This is not an easy situation to argue, pro or con. And the fact that he was 15 makes it more difficult. But two facts remain. MLB and pro sports in general are already populated by players who are not always shining examples of the better sides of humanity. Secondly, if one were to reason that Heimlich is not employable for a indiscretion as a 15 year old, then one would have to assume that would have to apply to any form of employment. Or for that matter would anyone else who ever committed an illegal or immoral act be employable, anywhere? I would think that philosophy would certainly cause the unemployment rate to rise drastically, likely into the 85% bracket. The good news is all that free time would allow lot of people to look into mirrors.

[markos]

 

The sealing of his record was dependent upon him fulfilling the terms of his suspended sentence, which he failed to do.

Technically, the newspaper found out because of an error with the Oregon state legal system:

 

Last June, the Oregonian discovered and reported that Heimlich was registered as a sex offender after the state of Oregon mistakenly thought him to be a legal resident and issued a citation for not updating his registration on his 21st birthday.

 

His records, as of last August, are currently sealed. If they don't issue that citation, it is entirely possible that NOBODY finds out. 

[Monkeypaws]

Well he just got knocked out in the 5th.

 

Thought it would be a funny thread title. 

 

 

Am enjoying seeing Larnach play though - he has a great swing.

[wyowib]

IIRC, his crime occurred when he was 13, went to court when he was 15.  I think the Twins should try to sign him.  We live in a society where rehabilitation is the goal for people who commit crimes (though I'm not sure "rehab" is the right term to use for the criminal actions of a 13 year old child).  While I don't advocate the Twins being willy-nilly about who they bring into the fold, I do want them to get ahead of the curve with addressing young athletes when it comes to the #metoo movement (I know it's not a direct correlation with this particular case); take some of the money saved in jettisoning Hughs and invest in a comprehensive program that addresses the issue in the minor leagues i.e. education for these kids/young men. Be proactive; the PR will be positive.  I have a 10 year old daughter, I get the outrage, but this kid was a child himself when he made his horrible decision; if this isn't an example of someone that can be "rehabilitated" than what is? 

[SF Twins Fan]

For anyone that wants a very thorough and I think impartial article you should read the following.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/mlb/2018/05/16/luke-heimlich-oregon-state

[Jham]

Technically, the newspaper found out because of an error with the Oregon state legal system:

 

 

His records, as of last August, are currently sealed. If they don't issue that citation, it is entirely possible that NOBODY finds out.

 

Mistakenly thought he was a resident of Oregon? He went to school there. He's a registered predatory offender. Failure to register within days is a felony in every state. 10 days in Oregon.

 

I totally get why he'd not want to register. He'd love to just move on. He's surely humiliated. He may well be ashamed and remorseful. And he's still learning to be an adult.

 

I'm hesitant to completely dismiss his innocence without review of the facts and evidence. Juveniles are often assigned public defenders. Not all of which are stellar lawyers and almost all of which carry oppressive workloads which sometimes leads to more pleas. I don't know what advice he was given regarding his plea, but the facts suggest he's a low risk to reoffend, he's committed no new crimes other than failing to register, and we don't know what brought him top that point or what he's done since that point. We certainly don't have to cheer for him, but cheering against someone won't change the past. A lot of people who've done awful things have gone on to do great things as well. And a lot of heroes have followed up with despicable acts.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Here's the problem. He served his time. If the goal is reabilitation, then ultimately, we have to accept the fact that he's paid his penance. If society isn't doing that well, then the problem with that is on society. He shouldn't be punished after receiving his punishment. I can see saying that he doesn't get to be the nursery worker at his local church... but this is MLB. He wont' be working in an unsupervised capacity with super young kids. 

 

My 2 cents, he shoudl play ball. He was top 1-3 round talent that is not drafted due to this. If he's signed, it's for 10k. That's it. If he fails (which odds say are more likely than not), then that's it... and he certainly won't get rich along the way. That alone is plenty punishment on top of what he's already served. 

 

I think he deserves a chance, whether here or elsewhere. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

The sealing of his record was dependent upon him fulfilling the terms of his suspended sentence, which he failed to do.

 

The circumstances are a tad more complicated than that:

 

"As far as what I needed to do, I needed to tell Benton County and then they send the information to the university," Heimlich said. "And that's what happened."

Not quite. Because of what state police spokesman Tim Fox calls, "essentially, a clerical error" by both the state police and the Corvallis PD, and a series of unreturned phone calls and mail notifications that were marked undeliverable, 18 months passed before Oregon state police first notified the university of Heimlich's sex offender status. Corvallis PD failed to fingerprint Heimlich when he first appeared, Fox says, and without positive identification Oregon state police could not add him to its sex offender registry.

Fox says the onus for correcting the "error" lay with Oregon state police, not Heimlich: "His requirement is to register, and he had done that."

After two more calls from Oregon state police in the winter of 2015–16, Heimlich had his prints taken on Feb. 11 at the Benton County Sheriff's office in Corvallis. On March 16, 2016—midway through the second semester of his sophomore year—state police emailed Chuck Yutzie in the university's Department of Public Safety to inform him that Heimlich was on the state's sex offender registry. What Yutzie did with the information is unclear; he didn't reply to SI's request for comment. Heimlich believed the university knew his status since his matriculation, but he says he never fully discussed it with Pat Casey until shortly before The Oregonian story broke last June. (The coach deferred questions on the matter to university officials, who declined to answer on the basis of student privacy restrictions.)

 

 

The SI article has more, but I don't think it's fair to say he "failed" to do his duty on this.  It seems like he tried to and the police department failed on a number of fronts, creating a loophole the reporter stumbled on.

 

Otherwise - it's unlikely anyone ever finds out about this until much later.  If ever..

[FlauerPauer]

I say sign the kid. If people don't like it and want to abandon fanship, then so be it. There are a lot of people out there and baseball will continue. I'm sure the team will survive. After all, this is a baseball team and the kid is a pretty good baseball player whether he is a pedophile or not. There have been a lot of shady people in the game of baseball in its history; he's not the worst.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm torn on this, because I don't know if he did it, and never will.

 

It's possible that he really did take the plea, despite being innocent. As hard as it is to believe, since none of us think we'd ever admit to something we didn't do, it does happen. There have been many cases of irrefutable, DNA evidence exonerating people who confessed to crimes they didn't commit.

 

However, it's also very possible that he did do it, and only claims he falsely confessed.

In that case, he's shown absolutely no remorse or contrition, and is in fact actively continuing to victimize the girl by calling her a liar.

If this is what happened, then he doesn't deserve a second chance, not until he shows contrition and stops victimizing the girl.

[Lunger]

I have just one question to those who think he should be signed, what if the victim had been your daughter?  

[TheLeviathan]

 

I have just one question to those who think he should be signed, what if the victim had been your daughter?  

 

While I sympathize with the logic, it begs a follow-up question.....is any criminal allowed redemption?  Because I could say "Do you really want to buy your dinner from a person that assaulted a woman?"  Or "Do you want that violent criminal building your house?"

 

The emotional appeal isn't always fair, especially if you believe in allowing people to be redeemed.  (Though I admit, this particular crime is among the most difficult to accept that on)

[wyowib]

 

I have just one question to those who think he should be signed, what if the victim had been your daughter?  

If it were my daughter, I'd want him gone, and/or hated him until he were (the approach his own brother seems to take).  Our society is one in which roman polanski and woody allen have continued long careers after the horrible stuff they've done.  I don't care for either so I'm not making excuses, just establishing a baseline.  Change only occurs through a process, and in today's social media climate, there is no process; just judge, jury, and executioner.  There is opportunity for some organization to be proactive in implementing a system to teach their employees a different narrative.  I want the Twins to be that business, but you can't get there if you shy away from individuals that made a life altering choice before they could legally drive.  I think there are some in today's society that you can't forgive (allen, polanski), but others that can be a part of the process that changes the narrative.

 

[Mike Sixel]

While I sympathize with the logic, it begs a follow-up question.....is any criminal allowed redemption? Because I could say "Do you really want to buy your dinner from a person that assaulted a woman?" Or "Do you want that violent criminal building your house?"

 

The emotional appeal isn't always fair, especially if you believe in allowing people to be redeemed. (Though I admit, this particular crime is among the most difficult to accept that on)

I'm not actively rooting for a server like I am a sports team. I believe people should be able to get jobs, but I don't want to root for them.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm not actively rooting for a server like I am a sports team. I believe people should be able to get jobs, but I don't want to root for them.

 

That's fair and I am probably in the same boat.  Though this particular situation has a number of difficult elements to consider.  A lot of conflicting beliefs/emotions for me personally.

[Jham]

I'm torn on this, because I don't know if he did it, and never will.

It's possible that he really did take the plea, despite being innocent. As hard as it is to believe, since none of us think we'd ever admit to something we didn't do, it does happen. There have been many cases of irrefutable, DNA evidence exonerating people who confessed to crimes they didn't commit.

However, it's also very possible that he did do it, and only claims he falsely confessed.

In that case, he's shown absolutely no remorse or contrition, and is in fact actively continuing to victimize the girl by calling her a liar.

If this is what happened, then he doesn't deserve a second chance, not until he shows contrition and stops victimizing the girl.

Most often the truth is somewhere in the middle. There's a lot of room to operate within the context of criminal sexual conduct with a minor because many actions which would be legal between adults would be illegal involving very young minors. I don't think we know the exact details. It's an unusual case.

[Mike Sixel]

That's fair and I am probably in the same boat.  Though this particular situation has a number of difficult elements to consider.  A lot of conflicting beliefs/emotions for me personally.

Yes

[wyowib]

To be more clear on my previous post, if this happened to my daughter I would want him "gone", didn't mean to imply I would simply fire him.

[jimbo92107]

Second chances. Whatever did or did not happen, he was 13 at the time. Remember how mature you were then? Me neither. I was throwing snowballs at cars and just discovering the wonders of Playboy magazine. 

 

Second chances. He's not the same guy today. His cerebral cortex is fully grown.