Article: Is Paul Molitor the Right Man to Lead the Twins?

[Danchat]

 

Big shock, the batter that berrios crosses the magic number is his last. Lol we could just put a buzzer in an earpiece and when the 100th pitch is thrown the player can just walk out. No reason for a mound visit. Autopilot manager.

Well, Berrios was giving up baserunners and he was looking gassed. I'm not sure if he would have been able to take on Benintendi-Bogaerts-Martinez another time.

[Mike Sixel]

Frankly, I think the next dog you see could manage a baseball team to about 2 less wins than Maddon.

 

That's how much I think of the position in the current baseball context. If Molitor is fired or retained I think it's largely irrelevant.

Why are they paid millions then? This is a super visible leadership position. Is it as important as the players? No. Is it trivial? I don't think so, and those that pay them must not either.

[launchingthrees]

 

Frankly, I think the next dog you see could manage a baseball team to about 2 less wins than Maddon.  

 

That's how much I think of the position in the current baseball context.  If Molitor is fired or retained I think it's largely irrelevant.

 

 I have a boxer. They aren't known for their intelligence. Let's say 4 wins less than Madden and move on. Manager challenges could get dicey though.

Edited June 20, 2018 by launchingthrees

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why are they paid millions then? This is a super visible leadership position. Is it as important as the players? No. Is it trivial? I don't think so, and those that pay them must not either.

 

Good question.

 

It would not shock me if in the next 20 years some team did away with the manager role as we know it.  

[jimmer]

This discussion has been fun, but I have surgery to remove the cancerous lymph node in my neck tomorrow morning, so I have to say good night.

 

Go Twins!

Edited June 20, 2018 by jimmer

[launchingthrees]

 

This discussion has been fun, but I have surgery to remove the cancerous lymph node in my neck, so I have to say good night.

 

Go Twins!

 

Good luck. Hit on your nurses and say your prayers.

[Mike Sixel]

This discussion has been fun, but I have surgery to remove the cancerous lymph node in my neck tomorrow morning, so I have to say good night.

 

Go Twins!

Good luck!

[jimmer]

 

Good luck. Hit on your nurses and say your prayers.

My wife would have a problem with one of those suggestions and I'm fundamentally unable to do the other suggestion.  

 

But I appreciate the good place that advice came from :-)

Edited June 20, 2018 by jimmer

[The_Phantom]

Well, Berrios was giving up baserunners and he was looking gassed. I'm not sure if he would have been able to take on Benintendi-Bogaerts-Martinez another time.

 

But Betts is the best of that group, and he was left in to face him to get to 100.

[wsnydes]

 

Yeah but Logan Morrison isn't a rookie and he surely knows how to take a lead off of second and Rosario has been playing long enough to know the cut system. Paul isn't coaching little league, these guys know the universal fundamentals of the game by now. If they don't... a major league manager doesn't have a chance. 

 

If Molitor has to pull the players out of a more advanced calculus class to teach one plus one equals two he doesn't have a chance. 

 

I'm hesitant to blame Paul for this.  

It's not that these things happen just once.  Things happen, mistakes get made.  That's not on Molitor.  It's when they're repeated over and over again that I look at the manager and wonder why it hasn't been corrected.  

[wsnydes]

 

 

Be critical with evidence.  And consider context.  Parker's post on the bullpen stuff has seemingly been  ignored but is pretty important to consider.  But "Tom Kelly would've X" is immediately a really, really bad argument.  

I wouldn't say that it's being ignored.  It's not by me anyway.  Even from my perspective, I found his post to be very interesting.  However, it talks about what managers do in game.  In my case, I have issue with what he's able to get across to the players behind the scenes that result in poor fundamental play and that things aren't corrected.  You can argue that these things should have been addressed in the minors or in high school (which I agree with), however fact of the matter is that they are not or have not been effectively anyway.  That leaves the big league guy to get things sorted out.  I agree that the managers role is shrinking in game. 

 

As for the portion of the bullpen usage, I didn't interpret it to take into account when relievers are used or when they're brought in or pulled.  That's my primary issue.  I think he overuses a couple of guys and doesn't use his entire pen efficiently though too.  He doesn't seem to have a feel for it.  He too often leaves a guy in, whether it be a starter or reliever, until after the damage is done.  The next guy is brought in to stop the bleeding instead of trying to avoid the puncture wound in the first place.  

 

I also agree with jimmer in that the most common complaint on fanboards is probably about bullpen management.  I acknowledge that it is not easy and there is some art to it.  But that's why a big league manager "makes the big bucks."  Bullpen management is probably the most important aspect of a managers role in a game these days.  It stands to reason that that is what people are going to zero in on.  And people are going to have differing opinions on how it's done.  

[laloesch]

 

Wow, is this comment wrong. Lance Lynn was one of the better starters on the market. Logan Morrison was a legitimate power hitter. Jake Odorizzi was also a solid mid-rotation starter. Frankly, the front office did far more than just about any previous front office did to improve the Twins over the offseason. The FO definitely did its job. 

 

yeah i agree with you.  Pretty ridiculous post.

[Riverbrian]

 

I might be wrong, but if Tom Kelly was still managing, I believe the throws from Rosario that sail to the backstop would cease after one occurrence. He and Eddie would be out there after the game practicing hitting the cutoff, and if it happened again, they'd be back out there after the game practicing again, and Eddie wouldn't be in the lineup the next night.

 

It's not that the players don't KNOW the fundamentals, it's that Molitor doesn't know how to get players to pay attention to them.

 

This is where we find common ground, while at the same time arrive at a place where I'm not going to be comfortable when it comes to criticism of Molitor. 

 

I don't know how Tom Kelly would have handled it. Would TK be out there after the game with a Whistle like Kurt Russell saying again until Rosario eventually pukes? 

 

Did the 87 Twins have a better defense because of Tom Kelly, because of the coaches, because of the development structure, a different front office player acquisition philosophy... or did they just happen into a group of naturally inclined players. Or... Do we not remember the occasional mistakes that probably happened then as well? 

 

And I don't know how Molitor is handling it. Does he handle it himself, have one of the coaches sit down with the offender.

 

I just don't know but... If I have one observable from my chair criticism of Paul Molitor... you touched on it. There do not appear to be playing time consequences for sub-par play from the starters.

 

I believe that it is fact - proven over several years - that Molitor is reluctant to try something/someone else. 

 

Dave Roberts would not let Byron Buxton hit .136 and still play every day. Logan Morrison would not be in the lineup everyday with his performance. Byron Buxton would be in a Joc Pederson role by now and Logan would be yielding playing time to something called Max Muncy. 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

It's not that these things happen just once.  Things happen, mistakes get made.  That's not on Molitor.  It's when they're repeated over and over again that I look at the manager and wonder why it hasn't been corrected.  

 

Molitor might be wondering the same thing. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

 

I also agree with jimmer in that the most common complaint on fanboards is probably about bullpen management.  I acknowledge that it is not easy and there is some art to it.  But that's why a big league manager "makes the big bucks."  Bullpen management is probably the most important aspect of a managers role in a game these days.  It stands to reason that that is what people are going to zero in on.  And people are going to have differing opinions on how it's done.  

 

That was a great post with criticism. It was fair and well argued.  

 

I'd suggest a lot of what you mean by this "magic touch" idea is really just luck.  I'm not sure Molitor, or anyone else, has a whole lot of control over that.  It's not like Terry Francona suddenly forgot to manage a bullpen this year.  The Cubs are at the bottom of the league in fielding, is that because Joe Maddon has lost his touch on where he plays guys?  Or had a fundamentals breakdown?

[yarnivek1972]

How can there be playing time consequences for mental errors?

 

Look at the bench.

[wsnydes]

 

That was a great post with criticism. It was fair and well argued.  

 

I'd suggest a lot of what you mean by this "magic touch" idea is really just luck.  I'm not sure Molitor, or anyone else, has a whole lot of control over that.  It's not like Terry Francona suddenly forgot to manage a bullpen this year.  The Cubs are at the bottom of the league in fielding, is that because Joe Maddon has lost his touch on where he plays guys?  Or had a fundamentals breakdown?

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment!

 

I agree that there is some luck involved with the bullpen management, no doubt.  A manager can push the right buttons for a given situation all he wants, but it still boils down to the player executing.  I do think that maximizing the odds of a potential outcome to be very real however.  I've mentioned putting players in a position to succeed in many other posts in other threads, this is what I'm referring to.  Putting the right player in the right position to maximize their chances of succeeding - and achieving a positive result for the team because of it. 

 

One recent example of where I believe that Molitor fails at this is Lance Lynn's previous start.  Molitor allows Lynn to come out for the 7th inning of a 1-0 game.  I had no issue with that, I actually applaud the notion of letting the starter go deeper.  Lynn gives up a leadoff triple and is allowed to continue the inning.  In my view, this is where Molitor failed the first time.  Lynn was running out of gas and near the end anyway.  In my opinion, Lynn should have been pulled at that point.  Allow a fresh arm to come in and try to work out of a tough jam.  To Lynn's credit, he did get two outs.  However, the first of those was a sac fly that tied the game.  Could that have happened to the reliever?  Absolutely, but Lynn wouldn't be on the hook for the loss either (if you care about such things).  After striking out McCann, Lynn then plunks Iglesias.  I believe that Molitor failed here too.  I realize that Jacoby Jones wasn't lighting the world on fire, but any major league hitter can be dangerous and now the go-ahead run is on base.  Lynn remains in the game and gives up a 2-run HR and now an inning that started as a 1-0 lead is now a 3-1 deficit and NOW Molitor takes out his starter.  The damage had already been done.  At that point, Molitor may as well have let Lynn finish the inning.  These types of scenarios play out more often than what I see the Maddon's or Francona's of the world allow to happen.  They have a feel for the game that tells them to stop the bleeding before it starts.  If the reliever brought in gives up the lead in that scenario, then so be it.  That's the luck that you mentioned.  But at least the manager maximized the odds of succeeding in a late game situation.

[wsnydes]

 

How can there be playing time consequences for mental errors?

Look at the bench.

Fair point, indeed.  However, perhaps what the "offending" player needs is to realize that by continuing to make mental errors they not only hurt the team with the error, but also by being benched for repeated offenses.  By benching, you hope that that gets the point across.

 

Short term loss for long term gain.

[mazeville]

 

This is arguably true today but it certainly wasn't 3 weeks ago. Though why are you using total innings pitched and not IP/Game? We've played 5 games less than the Tigers, and 3 less than the Indians, and have played the fewest games in the AL. For the first 2 months of the season Molitor would just shrug with a blank look on his face and throw Reed or Pressley out there. It was cringworthy.

 

We had 3 guys in the top 10 for RP usage 3 weeks ago, way outside accepted norms. Even today we have 3 of the 18 most used pitchers in the AL. Someone clearly told Molitor in no uncertain terms to cut it out because they haven't been pitched much at all in those 3 weeks. 

 

Or, you know, maybe he listened to his coaches; maybe he's been concerned about overuse for a long time; maybe he listened to analytics staff; maybe this is just the random ebbs and flows of season-long usage. 

 

DO NOT ASSUME that someone told him to "cut it out." 

 

 

[mazeville]

 

17 WAR? This year? Or all of last year?

 

All of last year. 

 

Look at the lineup from yesterday's game against the Red Sox. It was basically Mauer, Rosario, Escobar, Dozier and then pray that some bloop single falls or a guy gets lucky with a line drive. That they won against Chris Sale was a complete miracle. 

 

The point is that the team has lost an awful lot of its key players this season. People have to give Molitor a break on that. 

[Riverbrian]

 

How can there be playing time consequences for mental errors?

Look at the bench.

 

I'd love to look at the bench but I'm limited to the few occasions that the camera pans over to it between pitches. 

 

And because the majority of the camera time is focused on the guys who are playing nearly every day... I'm forced to focus on them. 

 

I get the names on the bench are not sexy but... We have guys that are in the lineup nearly every day, that don't have to bother checking the lineup card to see if they are playing. Guys in the lineup everyday who are performing worse than the guys who are being forced to watch them struggle from the bench. 

 

Dave Roberts would not let this happen, He will play Barnes instead of Grandal in the World Series and go back to Grandal later when he starts playing better. He will bench Puig to get a message through, He will let Kemp continue doing what he is doing after a long period of not doing it. He will give Chris Taylor a job at the expense of Mr. Potential Joc Pederson. He will give Max Muncy playing time at the expense of Justin Turner, Cody Bellinger and Logan Forsythe. He will find a way to get Enrique Hernandez in the lineup if he starts heating up. 

 

Dave Roberts will not go down with the ship before trying something else. Paul will go down with the ship without an attempt at adjustment. 

 

 

[Platoon]

All of last year. 

 

Look at the lineup from yesterday's game against the Red Sox. It was basically Mauer, Rosario, Escobar, Dozier and then pray that some bloop single falls or a guy gets lucky with a line drive. That they won against Chris Sale was a complete miracle. 

 

The point is that the team has lost an awful lot of its key players this season. People have to give Molitor a break on that.

 

I guess my point was that some of the players lost this year, were not playing anywhere near last year, in fact they were fairly lousy. But for example, if this years Eddies both twisted an ankle this year, we're toast. If this years Dozier does it, no one would notice. Take out Doziers first week of the season, and the Kirby Puckett statue could fill in with little loss of productivity.

[wsnydes]

 

I guess my point was that some of the players lost this year, were not playing anywhere near last year, in fact they were fairly lousy. But for example, if this years Eddies both twisted an ankle this year, we're toast. If this years Dozier does it, no one would notice. Take out Doziers first week of the season, and the Kirby Puckett statue could fill in with little loss of productivity.

Also important to note that Escobar is playing so much because of Sano and Polanco not being available.  Adrianza, while starting slow, has really come on of late too filling in for Polanco.

 

Guys that haven't been hurt aren't producing either.  Dozier, Kepler and Morrison have struggled most of the season.  Injuries aren't the only story for this season, that is for sure.

[Platoon]

Baseball may be the only game where one has the time between plays to envision the possibilities that can occur during the next pitch. You can stand in the field and consider the score, the hitter, his leg speed, where and of what abilities the runners are, the wind, wet ball dry ball. All of the variables can be considered, so when up the ball is hit, you can react accordingly with aforethought. The basics, cutoff positions, behind or ahead of runners, etc, have all been drilled into you since you were 15 or before. What remains is does the player want to invest in the mental exercise needed to follow his past instruction, and if he does not, does the manager want to do something about it. It's that simple. How a manger handles these things is what defines him. Let's take Rosario for example. Noted free lancer. A couple years ago he stole third against a shift. walked to third is a better description. I think there were two outs, us up. Molitor had a fit, and IIRC Rosario was exiled to Rochester. Completely BS. But when Rosario throws a baseball all over the field repeatedly nothing is said. I like Rosario, he plays with passion and ability. He also plays with a lack of attention to detail. And will continue to do so. My point is how and when you discipline a player is important in his development. And in the isolated case of Rosario was handled poorly.

[Doomtints]

Ron Gardenhire & Co., the group who Twins brass ran out of town after said Twins brass gutted the franchise, are currently doing more with less. Just sayin'.

 

Is Molitor "still learning"? He shouldn't be.

[jkcarew]

I agree with earlier poster(s) that insinuate managers impact is overrated in today's game.

 

But that's not to say the impact is non-existent, and I don't think Molly is a good in-game manager.  IMO, this was apparent right from the start, and although he's gotten marginally better, he gets outmaneuvered in leverage situations pretty consistently (including instances where our ridiculous roster isn't hamstring him).  So, I've always though his chance for being a plus manager would rely on softer skills: a 'whisperer' of sorts in terms of offensive and base-running development and approaches, and performance.  I do like his demeanor/professionalism in the dug-out, with umpires, in after-game pressers, etc....and I respect him as a baseball guy.  But, if he's not going to be that 'whisperer'...then, well...

[Richie the Rally Goat]

This discussion has been fun, but I have surgery to remove the cancerous lymph node in my neck tomorrow morning, so I have to say good night.

 

Go Twins!

Good Luck, you are in my thoughts

[jimmer]

Good Luck, you are in my thoughts

thank you. Surgery went well. In recovery and in lots of pain, but it went well.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

thank you. Surgery went well. In recovery and in lots of pain, but it went well.

GOOD!

[mazeville]

 

I guess my point was that some of the players lost this year, were not playing anywhere near last year, in fact they were fairly lousy. But for example, if this years Eddies both twisted an ankle this year, we're toast. If this years Dozier does it, no one would notice. Take out Doziers first week of the season, and the Kirby Puckett statue could fill in with little loss of productivity.

 

Sure. But in both Buxton's and Sano's cases you can make a strong case that injuries have played a role in their struggles. 

 

It CLEARLY did in Buxton's case after he came back early from the broken toe. And there are some who believe that Sano's leg injury has hampered his swing this season. 

 

In both cases, the players are gone and not playing for the major league team.  

 

And Polanco hasn't played at all. Neither has Ervin Santana. You can't forget either of those players. They were vital contributors to the team last year. And Jason Castro has always been a defense-first catcher. So his loss has been important, even if he wasn't hitting before he left (and he was clearly injured, too.)

 

So MY point is this: People are jumping off the Paul Molitor bandwagon awfully fast given the sheer number of losses. Cut him some slack. 

 

Today's lineup, for instance, includes Robby Grossman (again) in right field, even though he is a horrid defender.

 

It includes Adrianza at short. I don't even know if he should be on the team.

 

And it includes Bobby Wilson at catcher, who can't hit and isn't a good defender.

 

As for Brian Dozier ... he always has one good half and one bad half. This year is no different.