NBA Offseason 2018

[TheLeviathan]

Don't worry folks...Thibs is asking for Ben Simmons.  He's got this.

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

Thibsy’s working very hard on this. Trying real hard to get fired.

[Pardon My Dinger]

That said, if they can find a way to a) bring Dragic to MN, AND get rid of Teague, his hopes may be dashed. That would be a decent team.

[Pardon My Dinger]

The sunglasses smiley is not by design.

[Vanimal46]

https://deadspin.com/the-jimmy-butler-trade-saga-has-entered-the-realm-of-fa-1829386303

 

Thibs is that one guy in your fantasy football league who offers a kicker for your best player.

 

Fire him now if he's not going to look out for the best interest of the franchise.

[TheLeviathan]

Yup, time to fire Thibs.  Has been for awhile, but it's officially time to do it. 

[nicksaviking]

 

https://deadspin.com/the-jimmy-butler-trade-saga-has-entered-the-realm-of-fa-1829386303

Thibs is that one guy in your fantasy football league who offers a kicker for your best player.

Fire him now if he's not going to look out for the best interest of the franchise.

 

I didn't think I'd enjoy reading any article about the Wolves this year; I was wrong.

 

So I went from being bummed that this team likely now has no shot to make a run at top five seed to excitedly waiting to see how much havoc this train wreak will cause, all in about a week.

 

Maybe I'm just a bad fan, but I suspect the swiftness with which I became apathetic actually says more about the franchise.

[Vanimal46]

I didn't think I'd enjoy reading any article about the Wolves this year; I was wrong.

 

So I went from being bummed that this team likely now has no shot to make a run at top five seed to excitedly waiting to see how much havoc this train wreak will cause, all in about a week.

 

Maybe I'm just a bad fan, but I suspect the swiftness with which I became apathetic actually says more about the franchise.

I am a fraud and never was a fan really. But I do find the drama fascinating. And troubling how someone who's running an entire organization can not deal with reality.

 

It's become desperate at this point, like trying to win back an ex significant other. Just move on, man. If he is not able to do it, then he's in the wrong role.

[KirbyDome89]

Thibs knew well before the end of the summer that Butler didn't want to be there yet he decided to do nothing. He clearly refuses to accept the reality of the situation. Now he's making ridiculous counter offers. As infuriating as it is to watch this guy destroy what good the Wolves had going for them, I honestly have to ask wtf Taylor is doing in all of this. 

 

He gave Thibs the keys as coach/PBO and he's watching him drive the car off a cliff. Thibs hates young players, and anybody who isn't a former Bull. Now you're letting this short sighted monster's desire to potentially win a few more games (barring locker room issues) in 18' damage part of the future? If you have to tell other teams to ignore or bypass your PBO and deal directly with you because the PBO refuses to do what's best for the franchise then maybe it's time to let that PBO go. Just a thought...

[TheLeviathan]

 

Thibs knew well before the end of the summer that Butler didn't want to be there yet he decided to do nothing. He clearly refuses to accept the reality of the situation. Now he's making ridiculous counter offers. As infuriating as it is to watch this guy destroy what good the Wolves had going for them, I honestly have to ask wtf Taylor is doing in all of this. 

 

He gave Thibs the keys as coach/PBO and he's watching him drive the car off a cliff. Thibs hates young players, and anybody who isn't a former Bull. Now you're letting this short sighted monster's desire to potentially win a few more games (barring locker room issues) in 18' damage part of the future? If you have to tell other teams to ignore or bypass your PBO and deal directly with you because the PBO refuses to do what's best for the franchise then maybe it's time to let that PBO go. Just a thought...

 

All of this is why upthread I was shouting to shop Butler.  The Western Conference is a mess and nothing pointed towards this group of players being able to gel into a winner.

 

To fight this trade demand tooth and nail shows that Thibs is willing to be delusional and harmful to the team for selfish reasons.  The second, as an owner, that reports came out on Monday that he was trying to woo Jimmy back - I'd have fired his ass on the spot.  

[Vanimal46]

Thibs knew well before the end of the summer that Butler didn't want to be there yet he decided to do nothing. He clearly refuses to accept the reality of the situation. Now he's making ridiculous counter offers. As infuriating as it is to watch this guy destroy what good the Wolves had going for them, I honestly have to ask wtf Taylor is doing in all of this.

 

He gave Thibs the keys as coach/PBO and he's watching him drive the car off a cliff. Thibs hates young players, and anybody who isn't a former Bull. Now you're letting this short sighted monster's desire to potentially win a few more games (barring locker room issues) in 18' damage part of the future? If you have to tell other teams to ignore or bypass your PBO and deal directly with you because the PBO refuses to do what's best for the franchise then maybe it's time to let that PBO go. Just a thought...

This is all spot on. Not sure how a lightbulb hasn't gone off in Taylor's head when he's fielding trade calls. He paid Thibs a boat load of money to do that for him.

 

And frankly, Taylor should be the last person to negotiate a basketball trade.

[KirbyDome89]

 

All of this is why upthread I was shouting to shop Butler.  The Western Conference is a mess and nothing pointed towards this group of players being able to gel into a winner.

 

To fight this trade demand tooth and nail shows that Thibs is willing to be delusional and harmful to the team for selfish reasons.  The second, as an owner, that reports came out on Monday that he was trying to woo Jimmy back - I'd have fired his ass on the spot.  

I guess I gave Thibs too much credit. I didn't have an issue with offering the extension and trying to make a run with Jimmy after what they gave up to bring him to MN, but if Butler made it clear to Thibs that he wasn't interested in sticking around then Thib's inaction all summer was beyond irresponsible. 

 

The whole "woo him back," thing is just sad.  

[ALessKosherScott]

At some point if you're the Wolves, you have to realize it's okay to choose "None of the above."

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

Bledsoe/Brogdon, sending Jimmy to the East? What are they waiting for?

[TheLeviathan]

Gordon/Tucker is not terrible.  They may not see better than that and I don't see how waiting changes that.

 

The return is going to underwhelm and that's on Thibs....but water under the bridge.  We have to move on.

[Pardon My Dinger]

I feel that if you can put the 2015/2016/2017 ROYs on the floor together, you’re at least close to being back where you started from before the Jimmy trade. I’d go for that one, personally.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I feel that if you can put the 2015/2016/2017 ROYs on the floor together, you’re at least close to being back where you started from before the Jimmy trade. I’d go for that one, personally.

 

If you do that you'd almost have to trade a PG.  I know the Suns are desperate so you might be able to get something nice for Jones or Teague in that scenario.  

[Pardon My Dinger]

Woj says they are closest with the Heat. I mean, I can see Thibs wanting Dragic more than yet another young guy...still, though, I dunno.

[KirbyDome89]

Shocker that Thibs dragging his feet is supposedly the only thing that prevented a deal being done earlier in the week.

 

Hopefully Whiteside isn't being considered; that guy is a cancer both on and off the court. 

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Shocker that Thibs dragging his feet is supposedly the only thing that prevented a deal being done earlier in the week.

 

Hopefully Whiteside isn't being considered; that guy is a cancer both on and off the court. 

 

You don't unload Dieng's contract to pay Whiteside more money to play the same position as KAT, albeit over two years instead of three.

[TheLeviathan]

At this point I have zero confidence inThibs' judgement on anything.

 

He just needs to go.

[KirbyDome89]

 

You don't unload Dieng's contract to pay Whiteside more money to play the same position as KAT, albeit over two years instead of three.

Miami already has one of the highest payrolls in the league. If MN is adamant about dumping Gorgui they're going to have to take $$ back. Hopefully both sides get creative and/or a 3rd team enters the mix because Miami can't roster both Dieng and Whiteside. 

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Miami already has one of the highest payrolls in the league. If MN is adamant about dumping Gorgui they're going to have to take $$ back. Hopefully both sides get creative and/or a 3rd team enters the mix because Miami can't roster both Dieng and Whiteside. 

 

Maybe. But then there has to be good pieces of value coming back from Miami to do it. Dragic is essentially the better scoring/worse shooting version of Teague. Whiteside is the better shot blocking/worse shooting version of Dieng. The version of the trade floating around of Butler and Dieng for Whiteside and Dragic sets the franchise back.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Maybe. But then there has to be good pieces of value coming back from Miami to do it. Dragic is essentially the better scoring/worse shooting version of Teague. Whiteside is the better shot blocking/worse shooting version of Dieng. The version of the trade floating around of Butler and Dieng for Whiteside and Dragic sets the franchise back.

That's kind of the catch .22 here. If the Wolves are forcing another team to take on Dieng's contract (a negative asset) they're going to diminish their own return. IMO Whiteside is an all around a worse player than Dieng. He might have a few sexy blocks over the course of a season but the guy wanders outside of the team's defensive concepts to hunt those blocks and ultimately hurts the team. As a player I like Dragic a little better than Teague but Idk how his score first mentality meshes with Wiggins & Towns. 

 

Honestly I think if the Wolves were only asking for 2 options  from a list of a young player(s), a draft pick, and salary relief for Gorgui + Jimmy a deal would already be done. Thibs is overly greedy and/or purposely sabotaging negotiations at this point.  

[ALessKosherScott]

 

That's kind of the catch .22 here. If the Wolves are forcing another team to take on Dieng's contract (a negative asset) they're going to diminish their own return. IMO Whiteside is an all around a worse player than Dieng. He might have a few sexy blocks over the course of a season but the guy wanders outside of the team's defensive concepts to hunt those blocks and ultimately hurts the team. As a player I like Dragic a little better than Teague but Idk how his score first mentality meshes with Wiggins & Towns. 

 

Honestly I think if the Wolves were only asking for 2 options  from a list of a young player(s), a draft pick, and salary relief for Gorgui + Jimmy a deal would already be done. Thibs is overly greedy and/or purposely sabotaging negotiations at this point.  

 

I think Thibs has the right to expect a good player who doesn't kill your team long-term in return for a second-team All-NBA player.

 

If Miami doesn't want to part with Josh Richardson for Butler, the Timberwolves shouldn't trade Butler to Miami.

 

If the Clippers don't want to deal Tobias Harris for Butler, the Timberwolves shouldn't trade Butler to the Clippers.

 

If the Bucks don't want to deal Khris Middleton for Butler, the Timberwolves shouldn't trade Butler to the Bucks.

 

Every trade of what's "officially" been offered on that tweet from a couple of days ago makes the Timberwolves worse. The only one that offers anything revolving around a young talent is the Milwaukee one, and Tyus Jones > Brogdon. 

[nicksaviking]

I don't think there's a scenario where the Wolves "win" a trade.

 

But if Butler is going to be a cancer they'll definitely lose if they don't move him.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

I don't think there's a scenario where the Wolves "win" a trade.

 

But if Butler is going to be a cancer they'll definitely lose if they don't move him.

 

Trading a short-term, treatable cancer for something that's a longer lasting variety of cancer isn't a win.

 

If the Wolves pay Jimmy Butler $20 million dollars this year to not play, it's better than dealing him for Dragic and Whiteside. At least the Butler cancer is gone at the end of the season.

[Pardon My Dinger]

If the Wolves don’t trade Butler before the season starts, they’re going in short handed. We already know how hard a time they have winning without Jimmy. If they intend to play a portion of the season with a gaping hole in their roster, the West will have its way with them.

 

This is self-sabotage.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Trading a short-term, treatable cancer for something that's a longer lasting variety of cancer isn't a win.

 

If the Wolves pay Jimmy Butler $20 million dollars this year to not play, it's better than dealing him for Dragic and Whiteside. At least the Butler cancer is gone at the end of the season.

So, you’re going with the ol’ ‘addition by subtraction’ way of thinking, then eh? Best of luck.

[TheLeviathan]

Tucker and Gordon would not net them a cancer and get them playable help this year.  

 

I want nothing to do with Whiteside, but they're going to have to do something.  The longer this drags on the more of a toll it takes.  You'll lose every trade you make, but at least the organization and the core of the team can move on.  Until a trade happens, you have a cloud hanging over you and a gaping hole on your roster.