Article: Miguel Sano Optioned to Ft. Myers

[Otto von Ballpark]

Interesting to look at the practical side of Sano going to Fort Myers.

 

Fort Myers has their all star break starting today, so immediately Sano gets 3 days with no games where he can presumably work at the Fort Myers complex.

 

Then they have a 3 game series at home. Again, time to work at the complex, plus get some reps in games.

 

Then comes an 8 day road trip. I wonder if they will send Sano on those? It would take him away from the complex, and probably make it harder to focus on work other than that day's game.

 

In fact, looking at the Fort Myers schedule, after this all-star break, their max consecutive home games during the next month is only 4. Will be interesting to see how they handle that with Sano.

[Major League Ready]

 

I marvel at this organization. Yangervis Solarte, Aaron Hicks, and Niko Goodrum are all playing well and yet this team is playing LeMarre, Wilson, Grossman, Morrison, and Adrianza. 

Something is wrong, and I am not going to simply blame Byron Buxon and Miguel Sano about this.

Every team has let players go.  There are many examples of considerably better players than those you have mentioned. We got Johan as a rule 5 players. Corey Kluber and the list is very long. To suggest this is a Twins thing is very uninformed.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If Gordon comes up now, and goes back down when Polanco is activated, he will almost certainly burn an option year in 2018. Not a huge deal, but waiting until the trade deadline to call him up isn't a big deal either.

 

I'm not sure I'd call it trivial either. Mismanaged options can cause real problems down the road. I see no reason to add Gordon to the 40 man early unless the plan is to keep him here the rest of the season. Only way that happens in my opinion is waiving the white flag and trading Dozier, or some unexpected injuries to middle infielders after the team suddenly starts to contend.

[ewen21]

 

Mackey and Judd were discussing the other day and basically said Buxton's struggles are in part because cares too much is over-thinking 

It's becoming less and less important understanding that Buxton is a good kid who listens. etc.

That is all very well and good but it doesn't absolve him from anything.  This is the major leagues.  He needs to put on his big boy pants and stop pressing so much.  If he can't do that then maybe he doesn't  have the makeup to be a major league ballplayer.  

 

Sano, needs to understand that he put himself in this position because he has terrible off seasons.  We are talking five and six months at a time that he has to get healthy and in top shape.  This what today's player has to do.  If he doesn't understand that he will have a short career

[KGB]

Lots of reasons to criticize management. This isn't one

 

That remains to be seen. With the team lacking offense, bringing in below .200 hitter doesn't seem like a great plan.

[howeda7]

 

It could hurt because he has to be placed on the 40 man before being placed on the 25 man. Once placed on the 40 man you shorten the time he is controlled by the Twins.

 

That may or may not hurt because we don't know what kind of talent he will be in 2024.

 

If he ends up being a similar talent to his brother. That lost year will hurt quite a bit in my opinion. 

 

If Gordon is to be added to the 40 man roster early... It would be much better if he knocked down the door rather than have the door fall down around him. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but his FA is based on service time not time on the 40 man roster. Yes, if they call him up now and he stays up the rest of the season they would lose a year. But Polanco is coming back. So using Gordon for 3 weeks or a month will not lose a year of control. It will just burn an option which should not be an issue. 

[Riverbrian]

 

 

 

I think this service time stuff is overblown. I think our window of contention will be gone by the time Gordon’s service time is over which is why I don’t think it will matter if the clock starts this year or next. Get him up this year to see what he needs to get ready for. However, he’s not ready yet, and maybe he won’t be this year. But the minute he shows signs of it, you bring him up and show him where he needs to be. We need him to be in this Rosario, Kepler, Sano, Buxton window.

 

Well you know... Some people just can't wait until Christmas. 

[cy1time]

For context...Buxton 2018 OPS+ is 7 (I didn't forget a digit)...Sano's 84. But given Sano's expected role in the lineup, I agree that it's not apples to apples. Having said that, there is no defense at any position that makes an OPS+ of 50 (or 7!) anything other than an unmitigated, negative value, disaster. I think Buxton's road back from his toe should also include some type of extended 'reset' at some level of the minors...presumably a different flavor of reset...but reset just the same.

I didn’t realize you could have a single digit OPS+. Loved the commentary.

[snap4birds]

 

"2.095 years service" at B-Ref isn't really a decimal number -- it actually means 2 years, 95 days. 172 days makes a full service year. With opening day March 29, Sano just reached 3 full years service time on Wednesday June 13.

 

.

Thanks for the explanation on that....I was confused by that before on a different player.  

[Squirrel]

Well you know... Some people just can't wait until Christmas. 

Um, okay ... and that’s means .... ???

[Riverbrian]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but his FA is based on service time not time on the 40 man roster. Yes, if they call him up now and he stays up the rest of the season they would lose a year. But Polanco is coming back. So using Gordon for 3 weeks or a month will not lose a year of control. It will just burn an option which should not be an issue. 

 

It all depends on what kind of player he is gonna be. But it all adds up and what you do in 2018 could actually cause an adjustment (delay) in what you do in 2019 with Gordon if the Twins think they have someone special. 

 

Call him up for a 10 day look this year.

 

The New CBA says a season's length is 187 days but a service year continues to be 172 days. So if you want to get that 7th year of control... Players will have wait for 16 days to be called up for that .171 or less that gives you that 7th year. See Acuna or Kris Bryant as an example. Burn 10 days this year and now you have to wait 26 days before he can called up in 2019 or you lose the year. Call him up for 20 days this year and now it's 36 days and there goes April 2019.

 

Of course this scenario is only important if he gets called up to stay and isn't sent back down and if that happens... he is worth preserving the 7th year. So what you did was delay his arrival in 2019 by taking a look at him in 2018... if he's worth it and the reason people want to see him now... is because they believe that he will be worth it.  

 

If you continue on the the extreme example of him staying in the major leagues throughout. The other factor is money and we all know that money matters in Minnesota.

 

Let's forget about the year early free agent status and talk about Arbitration.

 

Let's say you call him up for 10 days this year and you hold him back for 26 days in 2019. In that scenario: He's at 2.171 days of service time at the end of 2021. At that point he qualifies for Super Two status and is eligible for Arbitration in 2022. Not a big deal to me because it's not my money but we all know that the Minnesota Twins have a budget. Instead of paying him 500K... you now have to pay him 10 Million... that 10 million is no longer available to sign someone else. Delay that arbitration clock and you can have Gordon and someone else for the 10 million... Instead of just Gordon.

 

Rosario, Buxton and Sano will be a free agents in 2022 maybe you'd like to have some money to extend or sign him one of them. Kepler and Berrios will hopefully be top dollar guys in their last year of Arbitration... Romero will be in Arbitration... Gordon reaching Arbitration that same year is gonna drain the pool available to be competitive for someone else if that is something we would like to see happen and i'm hoping that the farm system coming up will keep it all a reasonable dream to care how the dollars are allocated. 

 

On the other side of the the extreme example scenario coin... Burning an option in 2018 -- The Nick Gordon doesn't do as well as we'd like possibility: 

 

When you burn option in 2018 probably not a big deal unless he is slow to develop like Hicks or Buxton. In that case, you could a force a decision you are not ready for as early as 2021. Do you roster a 1st round pick with unrealized potential that the jury is still out on or choose outright assignment so you can give a 25 man roster spot to someone else and expose Nick Gordon to the waiver process where he is signed by the Kansas City Royals and then becomes the player we all hoped he would be for them.  

 

Chances are... he is something in between and it all works out but front offices have to consider these things when deciding when to place someone on the 40 man roster. EARLY. Gordon will be in his 5th year after being drafted out of high school. He must be on the 40 man roster in 2019. Just wait for it.  

 

This is why I say... I'd rather he knock the door down instead of the door and walls falling down around him because you just don't know. If he's gonna be good... you want that Arb Clock Delay and you want that extra year of control and you don't want to delay his arrival in 2019 to get all that. 

 

Any discussion about getting him a taste in 2018 for 2019 preparation... could actually delay his arrival in the year you are preparing for... if he's worth it... this matters.  

 

If he's gonna be an average player where you don't care about Arb clock or the extra year... or if he is going to be delayed in 2019... then this discussion doesn't matter. Just roll with Polanco and Adrianaza in 2018 because Gordon isn't going to improve the situation anyway. 

 

All you gotta do to avoid all of this: Is simply do what every other team in the Major League Baseball does. Read the CBA and use the rules to your advantage. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Um, okay ... and that’s means .... ???

[Riverbrian]

 

 

Back to topic... Sano might be back this year. 

[Squirrel]

Brian, with all due respect, you don’t need to characterize my desire to see Nick Gordon get his feet wet this year as impatient. I happen to think it’s a good strategy to get our prospects ready. That’s why we have 6 years of control ... to be able to bring them up and send them down to prepare them. Disagree, fine, but this isn’t about anyone being impatient, but seeing things differently than you. I’m not saying he needs to be up yesterday or tomorrow, I just think he needs a taste this year to plan better for next. Gordon needs to know first hand what will be expected.

 

As for Sano, I have no idea what will happen. I was all for being patient with him and in hindsight, maybe that wasn’t what was a good thing to do.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I'm not sure I'd call it trivial either. Mismanaged options can cause real problems down the road. I see no reason to add Gordon to the 40 man early unless the plan is to keep him here the rest of the season. Only way that happens in my opinion is waiving the white flag and trading Dozier, or some unexpected injuries to middle infielders after the team suddenly starts to contend.

polanco is a prime example

[ashbury]

polanco is a prime example

Polanco was added to the 40-man at a very young age because the Twins felt there was too high a risk of losing him. Blame the MLB roster rules concerning international free agents, not Twins mismanagement of minor-league options. Bringing Polanco up and down had no bearing on those options once he was on the 40-man and they had to be exercised.

[jorgenswest]

Polanco was added to the 40-man at a very young age because the Twins felt there was too high a risk of losing him. Blame the MLB roster rules concerning international free agents, not Twins mismanagement of minor-league options. Bringing Polanco up and down had no bearing on those options once he was on the 40-man and they had to be exercised.

Absolutely correct. He was called up for the first time because he was on the 40 and an option had already been exercised.

 

I might add that the Twins dud error in managing his play in the minors. Short season leagues do not have enough days to count as a full year towards needing to be put on the 40. In 2010 he only played 52 games starting in the Dominican Summer League and ending in the Gulf Coast League. Since the DSL calendar starts before the GCL calendar it resulted in a few extra days (2?) than the number required to be considered short season. Poor management with that season resulted in needing to put him on the 40 a year early.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Polanco was added to the 40-man at a very young age because the Twins felt there was too high a risk of losing him. Blame the MLB roster rules concerning international free agents, not Twins mismanagement of minor-league options. Bringing Polanco up and down had no bearing on those options once he was on the 40-man and they had to be exercised.

agreed, and it was the right call to do, but it was still a detriment to his development even if it was a necessity.

 

It felt like Polanco had the same minor league development recipe as a US high schooler even though the rules were different. Had the FO taken a more aggressive approach, maybe he’d have been more productive when he was forced onto the 40 man and active roster.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Sconnie

[ashbury]

agreed, and it was the right call to do, but it was still a detriment to his development even if it was a necessity.

 

It felt like Polanco had the same minor league development recipe as a US high schooler even though the rules were different. Had the FO taken a more aggressive approach, maybe he’d have been more productive when he was forced onto the 40 man and active roster.

Fair enough, but my response was to something I took to be about mismanaged options.

[Shaitan]

Is Sano to play in games or mostly work on the practice fields? I'd like to see a thread tracking his box scores...assuming this is a temporary move.

[Squirrel]

Is Sano to play in games or mostly work on the practice fields? I'd like to see a thread tracking his box scores...assuming this is a temporary move.

Feel free to start one.

[Riverbrian]

 

Brian, with all due respect, you don’t need to characterize my desire to see Nick Gordon get his feet wet this year as impatient. I happen to think it’s a good strategy to get our prospects ready. That’s why we have 6 years of control ... to be able to bring them up and send them down to prepare them. Disagree, fine, but this isn’t about anyone being impatient, but seeing things differently than you. I’m not saying he needs to be up yesterday or tomorrow, I just think he needs a taste this year to plan better for next. Gordon needs to know first hand what will be expected.

As for Sano, I have no idea what will happen. I was all for being patient with him and in hindsight, maybe that wasn’t what was a good thing to do.

 

The Christmas thing was an attempt at a joke. It had a smiley face to help guard against any misinterpretation that it was anything more than a joke. 

 

The Guns-N-Roses thing was a 2nd attempt at a joke after clarification was asked in response for the first joke.  

 

My instinct now... tells me to not attempt a third joke. 

 

I've read your posts (Including the original post early this morning and softer edit of the post that is quoted)... you communicate very clearly... I am able to understand.  

 

You would like the Twins to select the contract of Nick Gordon "The minute he shows signs of it" as strategy to get him ready and to plan better for next year and to take advantage of a window of opportunity that he needs to fit in to. You also state that "service time stuff is overblown" and the reason for 6 years of control is to send them up and down as a form of preparation. 

 

I am paying attention Carole. 

 

I agree that disagreement is "fine" but our disagreement is going to be fundamental because I believe that 6 years of control is more like the period of exclusivity granted to a drug company so the cost of development is justified before the generics come rolling in.

 

I believe it's the Options that allow you to move a player up and down and the players union has negotiated that with a limit of 3 option years in the CBA making it finite and not possible for 6 years.  

 

 

 

 

[Shaitan]

 

Feel free to start one.

If only I had the time. 

[ashbury]

The Christmas thing was an attempt at a joke. It had a smiley face to help guard against any misinterpretation that it was anything more than a joke. 

 

The Guns-N-Roses thing was a 2nd attempt at a joke after clarification was asked in response for the first joke.  

 

My instinct now... tells me to not attempt a third joke.

Try this one: What did the pirate say exactly one year after he turned 79? Aye matey.

[USAFChief]

Wrong thread, but my two cents on Gordon: the only issue I see is room on the 40 man. And if there’s room on the 40 man for Motter (or Petit for that matter), there’s room for Gordon.

 

I don’t see roster room or service time as issues.

 

However, there’s no reason to do that unless you’re going to call him up to Minnesota, AND play him every day while he’s here.

 

I’m not sure he’s ready, or even a prime prospect (but I’m always skeptical of prospects), and I doubt Molitor would play him if he WAS here.

 

So, to wrap this up, forget Gordon until next year, or until Molitor has no choice.