Article: Miguel Sano Optioned to Ft. Myers

[snap4birds]

I wonder how long Sano has to stay in the minors before his free agency is pushed back a year?  Baseball-reference says he has 2.095 years of service as of 1/2018.  I don't know the intricacies of how that is calculated (180 days = a full year so he had 2 years and 17 days at the beginning of the year???).

 

 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Do you think his statistical profile to date suggest otherwise? (I.e. that if not for his supposed poor clubhouse presence he'd be worthwhile to the club).  These kind of assertions need to be support with facts.  

His performance on the field justified being sent down. 

 

His highly touted counterpart has struggled even more yet we've never seen Buxton move all the way down to A ball. He's clearly struggled with mechanical issues yet the Twins had him working on them in AAA

 

Do I have hard evidence to say that there's more to the demotion than performance/mechanics, or that the Twins weren't happy with the direction Sano was going? No, but I don't think it's a stretch to say the move to send him all the way to Ft. Myers suggests each of those scenarios. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by KirbyDome89

[Twodogs]

 

His performance on the field justified being sent down. 

 

His highly touted counterpart has struggled even more yet we've never seen Buxton move all the way down to A ball. He's clearly struggled with mechanical issues yet the Twins had him working on them in AAA

 

Do I have hard evidence to say that there's more to the demotion than performance/mechanics, or that the Twins weren't happy with the direction Sano was going? No, but I don't think it's a stretch to say the move to send him all the way to Ft. Myers suggests each of those outlooks. 

On the other hand however, Buxton has never let himself get to 300 pounds either.  I know different body types, but Buxton, I am assuming is willing to do the things that they tell him to do, so maybe Sano is getting demoted all the way down to work on more than just his swing??

[KirbyDome89]

 

I think you are reaching with that assumption. Fort Myers has one of the best facilities. I don’t think this is punitive for disgruntledness, in fact everything I’ve read suggests yes, this is for work on his mechanics and conditioning.

I wasn't suggesting the move was nothing but a punishment. 

 

IMO it's obvious the Twins aren't happy with Sano's current direction, and haven't been for quite a while. I can't imagine Sano is happy with his performance either. Disgruntled seems like a fairly apt description of each side. If the quibble is over the word itself then feel free to plug in unhappy, disappointed, ect. 

[caninatl04]

 

Maybe this should have been done before Petit was DFA. Now the Twins have no reserve infielder until Polanco is eligible, which is still almost a month away.

Poor roster management.

Even if the Twins got an offer for Dozier, they would have to pass because they lack an infielder (they are willing) to call up.

I don't think this is an issue.  Should they get an offer for Dozier, they would be more willing to call up Gordon-- especially since trading Dozier would signal that the FO has waived the white flag on 2018.

[bighat]

 

People are overthinking this. If an MLB player is sent to Ft Myers, that means there is probably something going on that doesn't involve swinging a bat at a baseball.

 

Ft Myers is the Twins' home away from home. It's where the Twins have their primary training and medical facilities and where everyone goes to rehab.

 

That doesn't mean Sano is injured; they could be concerned about his diet, training, or mental state, amongst other things.

 

But it's highly unlikely this is purely an on-field baseball decision. Otherwise, Sano might get slapped down to Chattanooga at most. He won't learn much, if anything, against Florida League pitching.

 

Yeah, it's a hard reset. Sano's got some major malware issues and clearing the browser history ain't gonna fix that. They are reinstalling Windows and starting from scratch. This might take a while.

 

Man. Losing Polanco, Buxton, Sano for virtually the entire 2018 season has just been soul crushing. Instead we get a Logan Morrison in what appears to be his last season as an every day player, Ryan LaMarre, Ehire Adrianza, and Taylor Motter.

 

We all said at the beginning of the year: "Hey, at least we won't have any trouble hitting", and wow...just sad man.

 

I'm less interested in the "whys" that surround Sano's placement in Ft. Myers, and more interested in how the Twins coaching and front office managed to flush this year down the john.

 

I think this mess all starts with Pohlad insisting that Molitor keep his job when Falvine was hired.

 

 

 

 

[laloesch]

Promote Gordon already and be done with it!  

[Richie the Rally Goat]

https://www.twincities.com/2018/06/14/twins-demotion-of-miguel-sano-part-of-holistic-plan-to-reboot-all-star-third-baseman/

 

Sano has said the right things - i nabbed this from the MLBTR snippet

 

“It’s the decision they take and I take too,” said Sano of the demotion. “I’m not mad. They gave me an opportunity. No reason I can get mad. … I’m going to take pride of going down there and working hard so I can come back and be better.”

Edited June 15, 2018 by Sconnie

[Richie the Rally Goat]

And the corresponding move Mauer and Motter

 

http://mlb.com/r/article?ymd=20180615&content_id=281366410&vkey=news_min&c_id=min

Edited June 15, 2018 by Sconnie

[rujellis]

 

On the other hand however, Buxton has never let himself get to 300 pounds either.  I know different body types, but Buxton, I am assuming is willing to do the things that they tell him to do, so maybe Sano is getting demoted all the way down to work on more than just his swing??

 

Its possible there is more to it, but the key difference between the two is defense.  Buxton batting .200 at least still gives you the best defensive CF in baseball.  Sano batting .200 leaves us w/ a below average defender or him fighting w/ another .200 hitter for the DH spot.

[jokin]

 

Promote Gordon already and be done with it!  

 

He's not quite ready... at the plate, or in the field.

[jokin]

 

Maybe this should have been done before Petit was DFA. Now the Twins have no reserve infielder until Polanco is eligible, which is still almost a month away.

Poor roster management.

 

 

Lots of reasons to criticize management. This isn't one of them. The Twins had seen enough from Petit and had already hired his replacement for IF depth. 

[jokin]

 

Even if the Twins got an offer for Dozier, they would have to pass because they lack an infielder (they are willing) to call up.

 

What? If and/or until Dozier starts hitting, he has ZERO value. At present, the Twins would be lucky to get a C- prospect, and have to eat salary. 

 

Further, if Dozier restores any value enough to get a decent trade, there are plenty of Motter-like players on the daily waiver wires, or FAs like JJ Hardy, Stephen Drew or Erick Aybar to bring out of "retirement".

[howeda7]

 

Meanwhile, what's Trevor Plouffe doing this month? No, on second thought, let's not go there.

I'd rather have Plouffe up here than Taylor Motter.

[howeda7]

 

They need to put Morrison on the DL with hole-in-the-bat syndrome, or a case of loose brain matter.Doziers bat could use a DL stint with a case of brain buttpucker-displacia. Both are suffering from Vision stinkola at the plate which has seemed to develop in to q,chronic condition.

They've infected Kepler as well.

[jkcarew]

 

Its possible there is more to it, but the key difference between the two is defense.  Buxton batting .200 at least still gives you the best defensive CF in baseball.  Sano batting .200 leaves us w/ a below average defender or him fighting w/ another .200 hitter for the DH spot.

For context...Buxton 2018 OPS+ is 7 (I didn't forget a digit)...Sano's 84.

 

But given Sano's expected role in the lineup, I agree that it's not apples to apples.  Having said that, there is no defense at any position that makes an OPS+ of 50 (or 7!) anything other than an unmitigated, negative value, disaster.  I think Buxton's road back from his toe should also include some type of extended 'reset' at some level of the minors...presumably a different flavor of reset...but reset just the same.

[howeda7]

 

On the other hand however, Buxton has never let himself get to 300 pounds either.  I know different body types, but Buxton, I am assuming is willing to do the things that they tell him to do, so maybe Sano is getting demoted all the way down to work on more than just his swing??

Mackey and Judd were discussing the other day and basically said Buxton's struggles are in part because cares too much is over-thinking at the plate and Sano's because he doesn't care enough and just wants to weigh 300 pounds and spend his career swinging for the left field fences. I think that is the difference.

[howeda7]

 

A tempting thought, but Gordon is really struggling at AAA so far.

I know but he was fine at AA and AAA is a small sample size. Polanco is back in 3 weeks or so. It won't hurt to give him a long look.

[Thrylos]

 

Mackey and Judd were discussing the other day and basically said Buxton's struggles are in part because cares too much is over-thinking at the plate and Sano's because he doesn't care enough and just wants to weigh 300 pounds and spend his career swinging for the left field fences. I think that is the difference.

 

And I am sure that Drs Mackey and Judd have the information and the abilities needed to make those determinations.

 

[jud6312]

 

I'd rather have Plouffe up here than Taylor Motter.

Was thinking the same thing.

[jud6312]

LaMarre, Motter, Wilson, Grossman, Adrianza, Morrison ... I honestly can't recall a time when the MLB cupboard was this bare.

 

Not that it really matters, as I doubt Molly would know what to do with an actual MLB team anyway.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I wonder how long Sano has to stay in the minors before his free agency is pushed back a year?  Baseball-reference says he has 2.095 years of service as of 1/2018.  I don't know the intricacies of how that is calculated (180 days = a full year so he had 2 years and 17 days at the beginning of the year???).

"2.095 years service" at B-Ref isn't really a decimal number -- it actually means 2 years, 95 days. 172 days makes a full service year. With opening day March 29, Sano just reached 3 full years service time on Wednesday June 13.

 

In theory, we could have optioned him 2 days earlier and kept him under 3 years service, but unless we kept him in the minors for the rest of the 2018 season, it wasn't going to matter. I suppose it could have come into play if he suffered a serious injury while in the minor leagues -- but if that happens, plus his performance questions, I don't think the extra year of control would be particularly valuable anyway.

[jkcarew]

 

Mackey and Judd were discussing the other day and basically said Buxton's struggles are in part because cares too much is over-thinking at the plate and Sano's because he doesn't care enough and just wants to weigh 300 pounds and spend his career swinging for the left field fences. I think that is the difference.

 

I get tired of the "Sano doesn't care, but Buxton cares" analysis...almost always totally unsubstantiated by anything real...and rationalized by pointing to Sano's weight as either symptomatic of his issues or the outright cause of his issues.  Meanwhile is goes without saying that Buxton is doing everything asked of him because...he's fit?...speaks perfect English?

 

We don't know.  Besides...other than to inform the approach for the fix, the 'why' is irrelevant.  For me, I actually hope they're BOTH more in the immature/stubborn/unprofessional category of 'able but not willing'.  Much more recoverable than the 'willing buy not able'.

 

(Note:  I realize you are primarily simply sharing what you heard on the radio show.)

[Riverbrian]

 

I know but he was fine at AA and AAA is a small sample size. Polanco is back in 3 weeks or so. It won't hurt to give him a long look.

 

It could hurt because he has to be placed on the 40 man before being placed on the 25 man. Once placed on the 40 man you shorten the time he is controlled by the Twins.

 

That may or may not hurt because we don't know what kind of talent he will be in 2024.

 

If he ends up being a similar talent to his brother. That lost year will hurt quite a bit in my opinion. 

 

If Gordon is to be added to the 40 man roster early... It would be much better if he knocked down the door rather than have the door fall down around him. 

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

Promote Gordon already and be done with it!  

 

Gordon has a .674 OPS between AA and AAA the last 4 weeks.  His confidence might be done with it, if you promote him right now.  Check out how Littell has been pitching after his too early promotion...

Edited June 15, 2018 by Thrylos

[Mike Sixel]

 

Gordon has a .674 OPS between AA and AAA the last 4 weeks.  His confidence might be done with it, if you promote him right now.  Check out how Littell has been pitching after his too early promotion...

 

you base your knowledge of his confidence on what?

 

this fan base is brainwashed not to promote players fast, while the rest of the league gets younger and younger.....

[Squirrel]

He's not quite ready... at the plate, or in the field.

Yeah, which is why I wanted to promote him to AAA a bit sooner, but it likely wouldn’t have made a difference.

[Squirrel]

It could hurt because he has to be placed on the 40 man before being placed on the 25 man. Once placed on the 40 man you shorten the time he is controlled by the Twins.

 

That may or may not hurt because we don't know what kind of talent he will be in 2024.

 

If he ends up being a similar talent to his brother. That lost year will hurt quite a bit in my opinion. 

 

If Gordon is to be added to the 40 man roster early... It would be much better if he knocked down the door rather than have the door fall down around him.

 

I think this service time stuff is overblown. I think our window of contention will be gone by the time Gordon’s service time is over which is why I don’t think it will matter if the clock starts this year or next. Get him up this year to see what he needs to get ready for. However, he’s not ready yet, and maybe he won’t be this year. But the minute he shows signs of it, you bring him up and show him where he needs to be. We need him to be in this Rosario, Kepler, Sano, Buxton window.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think this service time stuff is overblown. I think our window of contention will be gone by the time Gordon’s service time is over which is why I don’t think it will matter if the clock starts this year or next. Get him up this year to see what he needs to get ready for. However, he’s not ready yet, and maybe he won’t be this year. But the minute he shows signs of it, you bring him up and show him where he needs to be. We need him to be in this Rosario, Kepler, Sano, Buxton window.

If Gordon comes up now, and goes back down when Polanco is activated, he will almost certainly burn an option year in 2018. Not a huge deal, but waiting until the trade deadline to call him up isn't a big deal either.

[Squirrel]

If Gordon comes up now, and goes back down when Polanco is activated, he will almost certainly burn an option year in 2018. Not a huge deal, but waiting until the trade deadline to call him up isn't a big deal either.

Yeah, I’m not for calling him up right now and have said so given his performance so far in AAA. But if in a month or so, he’s figured out that next level to a degree that we’re seeing forward movement, I would have no issue with getting him up this year for a taste and hope that happens. I don’t care about the service clock like some are. I want him ready when we are at our most competitive. As I said above, I wish they had gotten him to AAA a little sooner, but whatever. We’ll just have to wait and see.