Article: CHW 5, MIN 2: Time is Running Out

[Tom Froemming]

I don't think firing Molitor is the answer, and I certainly don't think there's even a remote possibility of him getting the axe. The main reason behind the start of the season is definitely injuries. I don't think you fire your manager/any coaches for that.

 

Somebody does need to encourage Molly to use his entire bullpen. There are 14 relief pitchers who've logged 30 or more innings in the AL this year, three of them are Twins (Hildy, Reed and Pressly). There were only two relievers in the AL who eclipsed 80 innings last season, the Twins are on pace to have three guys do that this year.

 

I also don't think sending down any of your regulars who are struggling, like Sano, is the answer ... yet. I'd prefer tweaking the fringes of the roster.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say Wilson, Adrianza, Petit or LaMarre deserve to be sent down, but if you're looking to mix things up, those are the easiest targets to be the fall guys. I don't include Garver in that mix because I'm a believer that he, unlike that quartet I listed, has a future with this team. There are a ton of options in the high minors to fill the roles those players are in right now, and maybe a different roster composition could help make this a more functional offense.

[USAFChief]

 

Yeah, Molitor force-fed Sano like a French goose bound for liver pate, dropped a bowling ball on Buxton's toe, spiked Polanco's vitamin drink, and twisted Castro's knee while dancing merengue. Or maybe not. Molitor also signed LoMo and is forcing Gordon to play at AAA. Or maybe not.

 

It might just be that the team they're fielding right now isn't that good.   

The difference being, of course, that there is no cure for, or blame to be assessed, over a broken toe.

 

The same can't be said for continued poor baseball play. Baserunning, for example, isn't merely a god given talent. Nor throwing to the correct base, or countless other details that add up over the course of a season and contribute to winning or losing.

[slash129]

 

Here lies the problem with 162 games. We are a society of daily reactions and the MLB is the perfect inverse of daily reactions. 1 of 162. Was it disappointing. Absolutely. Have I seen worse losses. Yep.

 

You pretty much nailed it right there.  Unfortunately, TD seems to amplify the overreactions.  This is evident when I only have to click one time to change from a page with a "What's Wrong with the Twins" article to an "Offense Take Flight" article. I probably wouldn't have even had to click, but the MLB draft just happened to take place between the crest and trough of the current wave.

[dbminn]

 

I was pretty clear when I said ... he is not without partners in blame ... but he is where it starts, imo.

 

Carole, my comment was definitely not directed at you in particular!  I just disagree that Molitor is the core issue. We went through this the first half of last year too. 

 

The current Twins lineup has four position players that can hit. Three of them have to have a good week to get the team 4 wins. Dozier had a terrible May, but has been very good the past two weeks. Kepler hasn't hit for the past four weeks (.191/.303/.376). That leaves Rosario and Esco, who have been very good. That's not enough hitting to play better than .500 ball.

 

If the Twins are healthy, they're a good team. If not, they're barely average. The Dodgers suffered injuries and poor starts this year too. They were 9 games under .500 the day Justin Turner returned to the lineup on May 15th. They've been excellent since then, mainly because of Matt Kemp(!), and some call-ups: Max Muncy, Ross Stripling and Walker Buehler. You need players and depth to compete. Roberts hasn't become a better manager the past month.

 

It's easy to pull the pitchforks on the manager but he's not the main problem right now.

[dbminn]

 

The difference being, of course, that there is no cure for, or blame to be assessed, over a broken toe.

 

The same can't be said for continued poor baseball play. Baserunning, for example, isn't merely a god given talent. Nor throwing to the correct base, or countless other details that add up over the course of a season and contribute to winning or losing.

 

They simply don't have the talent on the field right now. By FG, the worst baserunner is Kepler. Adrianza has been miserable on the bases. Maybe they can review the basics with them. Otherwise, they're missing some of their best defenders and/or baserunners: Mauer, Polanco, Buxton and Castro. It hurts to have half the team on the DL in all aspects of the game. It's not on Molitor.

 

Edit: Of course, you are as entitled to your opinion as I am!

Edited June 7, 2018 by dbminn

[nicksaviking]

 

While I was one that felt strongly we needed a change in management, including Gardy ... I guess the proverbial adage ... 'Be careful what you wish for' ... is pretty spot on.

 

I do think that most of us on the 'Replace Gardy' bandwagon were also on the 'Do not hire from within the country club' bandwagon also.

[nicksaviking]

 

 

It's easy to pull the pitchforks on the manager but he's not the main problem right now.

 

He may not be the main problem, but he is a problem and that problem is one of the easiest fixes if sentimentality is removed from the decision.

 

The season might be over, but we've see plenty of teams finally get a fire lit under them when their manager gets canned mid-season. Particularly when it's perceived as an unfair firing to the players.

[bighat]

 

I want Sano to hit much lower in the order. I want Adrianza and Garver gone or demoted.

 

Without Adrianza, Garver and Lamarre the Twins would have been no-hit and/or shutout last night. It's sad that they have to play these guys...even worse, those are the only guys hitting.

[dbminn]

 

He may not be the main problem, but he is a problem and that problem is one of the easiest fixes if sentimentality is removed from the decision.

 

The season might be over, but we've see plenty of teams finally get a fire lit under them when their manager gets canned mid-season. Particularly when it's perceived as an unfair firing to the players.

 

No sentimentality here. What is, IMO, overly emotional is calling to fire a recently successful manager when four position players are on the DL/SSL and one is recovering from off-season surgery and other issues. There are not enough position players to light a fire under at this point.

Edited June 7, 2018 by dbminn

[bighat]

 

No sentimentality here. What is, IMO, overly emotional is calling to fire a recently successful manager when four position players are on the DL/SSL and one is recovering from off-season surgery and other issues. There are not enough position players to light a fire under at this point.

 

I hear you. But many of us think the Twins have succeeded despite Molitor, not because of him.

[bighat]

 

 

I do think that most of us on the 'Replace Gardy' bandwagon were also on the 'Do not hire from within the country club' bandwagon also.

 

Yes! The Twins had a golden opportunity to change course when they let go of Gardy...hiring Molitor was such terrible use of that chance.

[dbminn]

Arizona was 20-8 in April and 8-19 in May. Maybe Tory Lovullo will be available soon.

 

Seriously... I've said my piece about the team's current condition and will now allow the pitchfork train to pass!

 

[nicksaviking]

 

No sentimentality here. What is, IMO, overly emotional is calling to fire a recently successful manager when four position players are on the DL/SSL and one is recovering from off-season surgery and other issues. There are not enough position players to light a fire under at this point.

 

I don't think any of us calling for him to be replaced are doing so based off of the recent on-field issues. We've been pretty steadfast in our wishes for a long time. I don't think it's a pitchfork situation if we've been saying they picked the wrong guy from the start.

[JustinCB]

 

It's June 7th. We must chill.

 

The Twins are objectively one of the worst teams in baseball (8th worst currently.)  They are bad on paper and they are bad on the eyeballs.  KC already started selling off the Twins would be wise to do the same.

[Kelly Vance]

 

This is proving to be one disappointing team. You may say Sano is only 24, but all he has been doing since 16, and before too, is playing baseball. I think he needs a wake up, and sent to Rochester. Molitor has totally mismanaged the bullpen. Why was Reed even in the game tonight? They can't even score from second on a double. again! They can't even beat the White Sox, and Santiago, and Detroit traded almost all their stars, and hired Gardenhire, and they are better than the Twins. This is a real disappointing team. 

Look, Pressley gave up the runs. Odor put the runners on though. I agree Reed didn't help. 

 

But in answer to the title's question:  No. Its only June 7. 

[USAFChief]

 

Without Adrianza, Garver and Lamarre the Twins would have been no-hit and/or shutout last night. It's sad that they have to play these guys...even worse, those are the only guys hitting.

None of those three are "hitting," regardless a couple ABs in last night's game.

 

It's possible Garver may end up a competent hitter, if he manages to stick in the big leagues.

 

Neither Adrianza nor LaMarre will ever hit.

[Kelly Vance]

 

Yes! The Twins had a golden opportunity to change course when they let go of Gardy...hiring Molitor was such terrible use of that chance.

You mean the Molitor that was last year's Manager of the Year?  

[ThejacKmp]

 

The Twins are objectively one of the worst teams in baseball (8th worst currently.)  They are bad on paper and they are bad on the eyeballs.  KC already started selling off the Twins would be wise to do the same.

 

A month ago the Dodgers were one of the two or three worst teams in baseball. Now most people expect them to win their division. I repeat. We must chill.

 

Also, there's not that much to sell. Dozier is underperforming, Mauer is hurt and the franchise, Santana is hurt, Lynn has to rebuild value, the pen is mostly under control for next year or is not something that gets great value. No reason to sell. We must chill.

[nicksaviking]

 

You mean the Molitor that was last year's Manager of the Year?  

 

That award typically goes to the manager of the most surprising team.

 

And the Twins were only surprising because of how terribly they played under him the previous year.

[dbminn]

Okay, while in the shower, I thought I was unfair criticizing the anti-Molitor crew without offering my opinions for improvement (before firing Molitor):

 

First Choices

1. Bring up Gordon from AAA to play SS. DFA Petit.
2. Rotate Esco, Sano, LoMo through 1B/DH/3B
3. Put Pressley (or Reed) on the DL. Bring up Busenitz.
4. Find a DH upgrade on the trade market. Release LoMo.

Other Choices

1. Bring up Wade and sit Kepler for a bit. DFA Grossman.
2. Rotate Wade, Kepler and LaMarre to match up the opposing SP.
3. Work a trade for Realmuto (don't sell the total farm)

All of these are on the FO.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

I do think that most of us on the 'Replace Gardy' bandwagon were also on the 'Do not hire from within the country club' bandwagon also.

This. And I don't think anyone was calling for someone that had never led before either.

 

This team isn't that good, they weren't all that good last year either. And there is little depth.

 

Does anyone think they are close to Boston, NY, or Houston? Or Seattle or LAA?

 

This is partly on the front office carrying two useless bullpen arms for weeks, yes, that does matter and we are seeing that now. I hope no one ever again says the last player or two on the roster doesn't matter.

 

There are some things to like about this team, but not enough, and not enough to love. It's a five hundred team, just like many of us thought.

[JustinCB]

 

A month ago the Dodgers were one of the two or three worst teams in baseball. Now most people expect them to win their division. I repeat. We must chill.

 

Also, there's not that much to sell. Dozier is underperforming, Mauer is hurt and the franchise, Santana is hurt, Lynn has to rebuild value, the pen is mostly under control for next year or is not something that gets great value. No reason to sell. We must chill.

 

Twins look like they taking your advice.  There is nobody good on this team!  If you're pinning your hopes on Eduardo Escobar (and he has been very good) well - that speaks for itself.  Sano in particular has disappointed me.  He had a lot of potential.

Edited June 7, 2018 by JustinCB

[yarnivek1972]

Okay, while in the shower, I thought I was unfair criticizing the anti-Molitor crew without offering my opinions for improvement (before firing Molitor):

 

First Choices

• Bring up Gordon from AAA to play SS. DFA Petit.
• Rotate Esco, Sano, LoMo through 1B/DH/3B
• Put Pressley (or Reed) on the DL. Bring up Busenitz.
• Find a DH upgrade on the trade market. Release LoMo.

Other Choices

• Bring up Wade and sit Kepler for a bit. DFA Grossman.
• Rotate Wade, Kepler and LaMarre to match up the opposing SP.
• Work a trade for Realmuto (don't sell the total farm)

All of these are on the FO.

Kepler is fine. His BB and K rates are career bests. His LD % is right at his career norm. Extra base % also is career best. His BABIP is low, even for him. He’s got a .255 BABIP now, compared with .266 overall. I suspect shifts account for most of his low BABIP career wise. But that it is even LOWER when nearly all his peripherals are better suggests lousy luck at play. He does need to start working all fields to negate the shifts. I think he will in time. He made the adjustment vs LHP. This is the next step IMO.

[Kelly Vance]

 

That award typically goes to the manager of the most surprising team.

 

And the Twins were only surprising because of how terribly they played under him the previous year.

Don't think so. The award is given to the manager the voters think deserved it  Usually you have to be a contender. It didn't hurt that they rebounded from a horrible previous year, I'll grant you that. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

A month ago the Dodgers were one of the two or three worst teams in baseball. Now most people expect them to win their division. I repeat. We must chill.

 

Also, there's not that much to sell. Dozier is underperforming, Mauer is hurt and the franchise, Santana is hurt, Lynn has to rebuild value, the pen is mostly under control for next year or is not something that gets great value. No reason to sell. We must chill.

I think this is one of those times when the only way out of the problem is through the problem. They need to get players healthy and play better. But it seems kind of wrong to get too down on a team that started the season with their #1 SP undergoing surgery, and which has lost 4 of their regulars to injury.  

 

I mean, that is just unfair.

 

Doesn't excuse Grossman thrown out twice at home in one game for dumb baserunning (on the 3B coach too), errors, and chasing bad pitches with men on base.

 

[Kelly Vance]

 

Okay, while in the shower, I thought I was unfair criticizing the anti-Molitor crew without offering my opinions for improvement (before firing Molitor):

 

First Choices

1. Bring up Gordon from AAA to play SS. DFA Petit.
2. Rotate Esco, Sano, LoMo through 1B/DH/3B
3. Put Pressley (or Reed) on the DL. Bring up Busenitz.
4. Find a DH upgrade on the trade market. Release LoMo.

Other Choices

1. Bring up Wade and sit Kepler for a bit. DFA Grossman.
2. Rotate Wade, Kepler and LaMarre to match up the opposing SP.
3. Work a trade for Realmuto (don't sell the total farm)

All of these are on the FO.

FC:  Agree with 1.  Two, they are already kinda doing that. 3 Pressley and Reed aren't hurt.   How do you release LoMo when Mauer is out. Leaving only Sano at 1B?   Uhhhh no.

 

OC:1, Keps has to play through it. He homered in Seattle and looked like he was getting hot. 2, OK. 3, OK.

 

I think they have to play through the rough patches. I don't like it anymore than you. 

[h2oface]

 

While I was one that felt strongly we needed a change in management, including Gardy ... I guess the proverbial adage ... 'Be careful what you wish for' ... is pretty spot on.

 

I don't know how you are interpreting my Gardenhire reference, but to be clear, I meant it as another reason why Detroit should be even worse..... and a disadvantage. The fact that they have sold the farm AND hired Gardenhire, and this team trails them, is appalling.

[Squirrel]

I don't know how you are interpreting my Gardenhire reference, but to be clear, I meant it as another reason why Detroit should be even worse..... and a disadvantage. The fact that they have sold the farm AND hired Gardenhire, and this team trails them, is appalling.

It was my way of saying that maybe they are where they are and we are where are is because of the manager. We SHOULDN’T be trailing, yet we are.

[h2oface]

 

I also don't think sending down any of your regulars who are struggling, like Sano, is the answer ... yet. I'd prefer tweaking the fringes of the roster.

 

Is Sano a regular? He hasn't played that much this year. And hey, he is just 24! Seems that if one is going to use it to suggest he has an excuse (not saying you have, but many do, and if the shoe fits.....) for his regression because of it.... then it goes that he can be sent to AAA to get it back together, just like any other egotistical brash 24 year old that can't control his behavior, weight, or swinging at balls way out of the zone and striking out at a record pace. Past time for a wake up call, I think.

[h2oface]

 

Look, Pressley gave up the runs. Odor put the runners on though. I agree Reed didn't help. 

 

But in answer to the title's question:  No. Its only June 7. 

 

?? Reed had a fine outing, first one in the last 5. He did help. So I don't know what you mean ??

 

Reed didn't even need to be used in this game behind by 3 runs in the 9th, and needs to stop being overused. This was another example of Molitor overusing the pen personnel! 15 pitches and a warm up his arm didn't need to do.

Edited June 7, 2018 by h2oface