Article: Outrage Over Medical Staff is Overblown

[Shane Wahl]

So what is exactly "overblown"? Is it too much to say that they appear to have made a number of very erroneous decisions the past two seasons? Maybe that isn't "outrage" but I think being frustrated is a pretty legitimate response to how medical issues have been dealt with.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Overblown fan outrage? Say it ain't so, Rick.

 

Face it, the success of Twins Daily is, at least to a degree, the direct result of overblown outrage on the part of Twins fans these days about one issue or another.

 

JB_Iowa's comments are pretty on the money. I admit I have no clue whether medical/training staff are doing a good job in a tough situation or are botching things. Similarly, I don't know whether successive 90+ loss seasons are due to bad managing, coaching, scouting, general managing, overly frugal ownership or just poor player performances.

 

As a fan, I do know the Twins have been a bad team for too long and the results on the field, in much of the farm system, and in the training room have not been good. It also just seems far too simplistic to say it was all Bill Smith's fault and since he was reassigned, the Twins have installed a culture of accountability.

 

I'm not giving up on Terry Ryan because I don't think you can fix everything in one year. That said, although I'm not an expert on running a ballclub, I would like to see some evidence on the part of those in charge of the Twins (who certainly should be experts) that they are actively identifying areas that need improvement and are holding those in charge of those areas accountable.

 

Can anybody tell me with any certaintity that there hasn't already been changes made and these things are still happening? Does anybody know if their has or hasn't been any changes to their medical staff in the last three years? I am not talking about team doctors, but the techs and specialists that are helping to make these decisions? It seems to me that, as usual, too many people are blasting the situation without any clear knowledge of what is going on.

[SeanS7921]

This is correct, totally overblown.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This completely sums up my issues with far too many commenters on this site. People come in to threads spitting vitriol about how much they screwed up this injury situation or this trade or this draft. For me, this goes all the way back to the Johan trade, since that was around when I started getting into Twins blogs (Gleeman). So many were up in arms because we didn't trade him for Ellsbury and Lester and whoever else, never minding the fact that the Red Sox never offered that package. Yes, the return on Johan was very underwhelming, but for all we know, it was the best offer available. Yes, the injury situation is very frustrating, but for all we know, we've been snakebit and any other team with the same players would've suffered the same fate.

 

At least with the Johan trade, you can fall back on the stats. I didn't like the players sent from the Mets in trade for Santana. I could back up my belief with graphs, charts, historical comparisons, etc. of each player. I could build a case, based on evidence, that it was not a good idea. I could compare that to the expected performance of Santana in 2008 and the comp picks the team would receive in return. I've watched baseball my entire life. I've spent the better part of my adult life pouring over the finer points of the game. I'm no baseball expert but I know something about the game.

 

On the other hand, I've only seen a half dozen episodes of House and I didn't even like the show much. I'm not a doctor. In all likelihood, nobody here is a doctor or even involved enough in the medical profession to do anything except speculate wildly over half-truths and diagnoses not seen by anyone outside of the medical staff and the organization. Hell, we don't even know if anybody has been fired for these perceived issues with the medical staff. We know virtually nothing. In short, there are a hell of a lot of people going off half-cocked about a situation they don't even understand. They don't have the slightest clue how the medical profession works, how the system operates, and whether the Twins are doing anything right or wrong. They see a bunch of injured players and start to lay blame. Are they wrong? I don't know. That's not my point... The point is that they don't know, either.

 

And in life, I've generally found that it's best to shut up when you don't know something.

 

As fans, we get frustrated. That's expected. We want to see changes when things go badly. That's expected. But there's a big difference between stating "the Twins medical staff is incompetent and needs to be fired, along with the front office" and "damn, I wish this team didn't spend so much time on the DL... what is the problem here?". One is raising an issue and trying to determine if the organization is at fault while the other comes off as heavy-handed and supremely arrogant considering the complexity and nuances of the human body and sports injuries. After all, people spend eight ****ing years getting a degree just to be allowed to diagnose a person. Why don't some of the people in this thread stop to consider that they look like fools when they don their Internet White Coat & Clipboard and pretend that they have the slightest friggin' clue what they're talking about?

[jokin]

Overblown fan outrage? Say it ain't so, Rick.

 

"1) Face it, the success of Twins Daily is, at least to a degree, the direct result of overblown outrage on the part of Twins fans these days about one issue or another.

 

JB_Iowa's comments are pretty on the money. I admit I have no clue whether medical/training staff are doing a good job in a tough situation or are botching things. 2) Similarly, I don't know whether successive 90+ loss seasons are due to bad managing, coaching, scouting, general managing, overly frugal ownership or just poor player performances.

 

As a fan, I do know the Twins have been a bad team for too long and the results on the field, in much of the farm system, and in the training room have not been good. It also just seems far too simplistic to say it was all Bill Smith's fault and since he was reassigned, the Twins have installed a culture of accountability.

 

I'm not giving up on Terry Ryan because I don't think you can fix everything in one year. That said, although I'm not an expert on running a ballclub, I would like to see some evidence on the part of those in charge of the Twins (who certainly should be experts) that they are actively identifying areas that need improvement and are holding those in charge of those areas accountable.

 

Can anybody tell me with any certainty that there hasn't already been changes made and these things are still happening? Does anybody know if their has or hasn't been any changes to their medical staff in the last three years? I am not talking about team doctors, but the techs and specialists that are helping to make these decisions? 3) It seems to me that, as usual, too many people are blasting the situation without any clear knowledge of what is going on.

 

"1) Face it, the success of Twins Daily is, at least to a degree, the direct result of overblown outrage on the part of Twins fans these days about one issue or another."

 

I sense a staff meeting is in order, the topic: "How to avoid the 'Phil Mackey Disaffecting His Readers Effect' when writing articles"

 

"2) Similarly, I don't know whether successive 90+ loss seasons are due to bad managing, coaching, scouting, general managing, overly frugal ownership or just poor player performances. "

 

Let's see that's 6 possible answers, A/B/C/D/F/G....I'll vote for Box H- All of the Above.

 

"3) It seems to me that, as usual, too many people are blasting the situation......"

 

Despite a strong declarative opening statement from the new GM that the training/medical issues were a top priority, it seems demonstrably obvious to me by their repeated identical blunderings that the people in position to know and do something about the situation are first and foremost the prime suspects who don't, as of yet, have "any clear knowledge of what is going on."

And yet, to question the situation at this level of knowledge by the common layman is deemed "overblown outrage". Particularly after two seasons of: a peculiar happening, followed by an incidental instance, right after an odd occurence, after multiple players are physically unready to perform at a major league level on opening day, one seemingly innocuous injury after another, from the ridiculous- "bilateral leg weakness" (how was this 2011 epic catastrophe not even casually mentioned in the article?)- to the sublime- the repeatedly aggravating- Will he? Won't he? DL-Dance.

 

Silly and absurd characterization from the author about legitimate concerns that have yet to be properly addressed. This doesn't mean "fire everybody", but it sure as heck means complete evaluation and overhaul of procedures and the institution of accountability standards for everyone in the organization-, from the superstar on the field, to the top surgeon, to the masseuse on down to the towel boy.

[Montecore]

The bad track record is evidence enough thar the medical staff needs to be shown the door. It's the same with Gardenhire. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[TheLeviathan]

The only thing overblown is the thesis of this blog post. Nick did the same thing on the forum a few days ago and it's no less wrong now. This blog pins the argument into two absurd corners - either as staunch defenders of the organization out of medical ignorance or overly critical hyperventilators. Personally, I think the sane response to this issue is largely in-between.

 

This is a team that has been carrying 13 pitchers and one of the 12 position players (Butera) is a borderline major-leaguer with limited ability to contribute. When you spend 18 days with one of your other 11 position players in limbo - you're greatly impairing your team. Yes, this team is awful so the cost of this one position this year is minimal. However, bad practice is still bad practice no matter what the quality of the team is. Having a poor season is not an excuse to run your operation ineffectively. It's not "overblowing" anything to be critical of this.

 

I don't claim to know exactly what the problem is, but by comparison to other teams in the league it's clear the Twins are not utilizing the DL as effectively as others. It's also clear that their ability to assess and treat injuries is not at the same level as the other teams. There also appears to be an issue with player-medical staff communication. (Not laying fault either direction, probably both are guilty) I don't lump TJS into this because that could jsut be a fluke thing but it certainly adds to the frustrations, warranted or not. Again, I don't claim to know why the problems above are happening. That's for someone with more direct supervision of the team to assess and correct, but it's within my rights as a fan to question and be frustrated with what is now a two year trend.

 

It's not "overblowing" anything to be frustrated with the way the team is handling (or lack there of) injuries. It's one of many other things that the team needs to look at improving if they are going to return to contention.

[joeboo_22]

Is it the medical staff or is it the front office and gardy? The medical staff I'm sure gives an honest opinion on most cases, though they have seemed to botch a few. Pavano's arm, Kubel's foot last year, Mauer's knee, etc. But over the last year I've seen way too many day-to-day's turn into weeks, and then months. Which makes me think its more the front office then the doctors.

 

Lets say its something like this.

 

Dr. well its not great, blah blah blah, could use surgery

 

TR: well can he pitch through the pain?

 

Dr. yeah, the damage is done, if he can pitch through the pain he'll be fine.

 

TR: so and so is day to day with arm problems

 

Guy tries to pitch through it, struggles, they try rehab, that doesn't work, and then 8-12 weeks later they decide on surgery. Well was the Dr. wrong?

 

So I think it might not be 100% medical staff, I think it might be more the front office. I don't care what the Dr. is telling me, if my centerfielder can't take BP 9 days after the injury I'm going to DL him.

[Highabove]

It would be interesting to see some actual quotes from these players. Were they openly critical about the medical staff? Or were they just expressing frustration about not being able to get back on the field sooner, which is being interpreted as a critique of the medical staff?

 

Either way, I don't know that it conclusively proves anything. The players are the recipients of the treatment, so they know a lot more that anyone here about what the medical staff actually does. But they don't have the expertise, so even if they are critical of the medical staff, it doesn't mean those criticisms are valid. Players have different goals than doctors, so some tension there is inevitable.

 

Coments by Players who have had issues with their treatment have been documented in the Print and Broadcast Media

I will give you one regarding J.J. Hardy. Hardy speaking with 1500's Phil Mackey

 

 

• "In spring training I started to feel it and got a little bit nervous, going, 'Oh (expletive), here we go again.' But the trainers worked on it, got rid of it in about a week, and I haven't dealt with it since." Hardy added that the treatment he received from Orioles' trainers was different than what had been tried in Minnesota, but he added, "I don't want to get into that too much and make people look bad, but yeah. It definitely was a little bit different."
  

[Nick Nelson]

The only thing overblown is the thesis of this blog post. Nick did the same thing on the forum a few days ago and it's no less wrong now. This blog pins the argument into two absurd corners - either as staunch defenders of the organization out of medical ignorance or overly critical hyperventilators. Personally, I think the sane response to this issue is largely in-between.

Pretty sure my stance was directly in the middle of those two extremes. I'm not pinning anyone in any corner, I'm responding to the (very real) reaction I saw after the Span news dropped last week.

 

It's not "overblowing" anything to be frustrated with the way the team is handling (or lack there of) injuries. It's one of many other things that the team needs to look at improving if they are going to return to contention.

I'm not responding to the frustration over funky injury situations – that's well warranted. I'm frustrated with them too. What I'm responding to is the tendency to immediately blame the medical staff in every situation that pops up without considering the number of variables in play. I see people calling for the entire medical staff to be cleared out... do those people really believe that every single doctor, trainer and med tech under the organization's employ is incompetent? Seems pretty far-fetched. This is a complicated issue and the kind of blanket critiques often being thrown out there simply don't fit.

[TheLeviathan]

This is a complicated issue and the kind of blanket critiques often being thrown out there simply don't fit.

 

I'm only seeing the "fire em all" rhetoric from a select few - you used this same "overblown" response to me the other day when I expressed frustration with the handling of the DL. Now apparently that is "well warranted" - I'm not sure you're even clear what you think is being overblown.

 

This article (and you can see it in the responses here) makes people think you're painting them into one of those corners.

[BHtwins]

It hasnt been just 2 years of complaining, its really been 7 or 8 of grumbling and 5-6 of some pretty serious questioning.

 

Its not just Twins fanatics either. The Twins medical staff is pretty poorly respected among the agent community as well. Some players agents wont let a primary diagnosis come from them at all.

[Guest USAFChief]

I agree with BH above...this isn't a two year thing. The Twins handling of injuries in general, and the DL in particular, has been, at the least, questionable for years now. It cost them games when they were good, it's costing them games now. I don't think there can be any denying it. Whether the primary culprit is the medical staff, or the front office, I'm not sure, but to pretend this is "overblown" or worse, is poppycock.

 

You don't have to be an auto mechanic to see cars coming out of the same repair shop still broken, time after time, to decide there's a problem there. You don't have to be a doctor to look at the Twins mishandling of multiple injury situations, over a period of years, to decide there's a problem ​there.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

It hasnt been just 2 years of complaining, its really been 7 or 8 of grumbling and 5-6 of some pretty serious questioning.

 

Its not just Twins fanatics either. The Twins medical staff is pretty poorly respected among the agent community as well. Some players agents wont let a primary diagnosis come from them at all.

 

You need to document your claim.

 

1. Please get some quotes from "the agent community" to substantiate your claim. Also, to other posters:

2. Identify medical/sport medicine experts in order to confirm that the Twins medical staff have done something unethical or substandard.

3. Quote present/former Twins ballplayers who have gone on record stating that members of the Twins medical staff aren't doing their jobs.

 

The beauty of being a staff writer for the Stib or P.Press OR Twins Daily is working hard enough to validate your claims by confirming your sources. Otherwise, it's just a screed.

 

Or, in the days when I worked making pizza's at Davanni's (we ran 1 and a half hours per pizza delivery during game 7 of the 1987 World Series) the creed was "Care, Work Hard, Have Fun" At Cedar/Riverside, a Sharpie changed the sign to read "Have Funk!"

 

Under "work hard" I would encourage Twins Daily writers to do a little researcha and document your claims. Here's a helpful link http://www.easybib.com/

 

Let's keep each other honest.

Just sayin.

[JB_Iowa]

Well, I won't pretend to document anything. But on the more than 2 years of complaining front, I remember absolutely screaming when Mr. Gardenhire kept putting Morneau in the line-up day after day in August/September 2009.

 

I posted over and over that there was something clearly wrong with him. I wasn't sure if it was physical or mental but I knew that there was a problem -- that it wasn't an ordinary slump.

 

And sure enough, after days and days and days of horrendous performance, they finally diagnosed the stress fracture in his back.

 

I have to assume that a lot of this is on Morneau but I still don't understand why that situation went on for as long as it did.

[BHtwins]

I'm not a staff writer for Strib or PP. I'm a poster on a message board. Im not getting paid to waste time.

 

Pay me free lance rates and Ill find you at least 5 quotes from players over the last 18 months complaining about the Twins med staff blowing their diagnosis. The fact is I found them....but Im not citing them because I DONT CARE. You cite them if this matters to you.

 

I'll find paragraphs of written angst from Joe Mauers torn meniscus taking too long. Weeks of written screed about shutting Liriano down to "rest" before he ultimately got TJ. Throw in some beautiful quotes of the staff questioning Grant Balfour's toughness when he complained of forearm tightness that ultimately turned into TJ. All of those are over 5 years ago. There are dozens of examples of Twins players getting 2nd and 3rd opinions and you'd have a tough time finding any major Twins player that had anything ortho done in-house.

 

If you think things are great....then fantastic. I dont care, I stated my opinion, which in general is a hell of lot more interesting then regurgitated tripe.

[Nick Nelson]

I'm only seeing the "fire em all" rhetoric from a select few - you used this same "overblown" response to me the other day when I expressed frustration with the handling of the DL. Now apparently that is "well warranted" - I'm not sure you're even clear what you think is being overblown.

Well what exactly were you angry about? If it's the medical staff, then this article is aimed at you. If it's something else, then what? Who exactly is to blame for this repetitive pattern? To me, it seems like a few evenly distributed iffy decisions mixed with a whole lot of bad luck. I'm guessing the medical staff deserves some blame, is it the main problem? How would you know?

 

I agree with BH above...this isn't a two year thing. The Twins handling of injuries in general, and the DL in particular, has been, at the least, questionable for years now.

By what standard? Who here follows another team closely enough to really make an accurate and objective baseline comparison? I really feel like a lot of people do not understand just how mysterious medicine is. Injuries and illnesses get misdiagnosed all the time, in sports and in life. Someone above cited the example of Morneau playing through an injury back in 2009... do you realize how common that is? Players hide injuries because they want to play. Managers defer too quickly because that's how clubhouses are run. Much of this stuff is just baseball, and has nothing to do with the team doctors.

 

It's a complicated issue and, to me, a low priority. I feel like we should be focused a lot more on figuring out how to put together a decent roster than complaining about an injured player tying up a meaningless roster spot for a last-place team. Injuries are just part of the game, and they're rarely a tidy affair.

[Badsmerf]

People need to stop acting like medical professionals are Gods that know how to send a rocket to the moon. I don't really care how much experience they have since I've seen plenty of experienced idiots in my lifetime. These people aren't untouchable. None of us know exactly what is going on because we are all on the outside looking in, but it sure doesn't look very good to me. Nick, you can account bad luck or whatever you want, but that is clearly turning the other cheek. I'm not sure if the Twins need to fire people, but anyone that doesn't admit something has to be done is in denial. Everyone should be kept to standard and there has been too many situations that leave questions unanswered to give anyone the benefit of the doubt at this point. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of this article for a number of reasons.

[Highabove]

Mr Greed,

Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy? I will give you more documentation of a Player complaint.

Here is one from Pat Neshek

On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

 

"Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

 

[Shane Wahl]

Well, I guess the only answer to this is to actually find out how other teams handle these situations and make the comparison with the Twins. That WOULD give us a sense of how bad the doctor-manager/coaches-players dynamic works with regard to these debacles. I think it is NOT a low priority . . . it only seems like that when the Twins are losing like this.

[OldManWinter]

Sometimes poor results are nothing more than bad luck.

 

Most people I know do not own a perfect crystal ball so they have a real tough time knowing exactly what will happen in the future.

 

Apparently though, this site is full of good folks with perfect crystal balls that permit them to judge the future exactly right every time.

 

Baseball is a game to enjoy, don't over complicate it.

[jokin]

Mr Greed,

Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy?

Now I will give you one from Pat Neshek

On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

 

"Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

I will put out another one tomorrow.

 

Uh Ohhhh...

 

This could get to be better than waiting for the next weekly installment of Breaking Bad. I've got a feeling that Highabove's Vince Gilligan-like sense of timing while breaking out a "quote a day" from disgruntled ex-Twins is going to break really real bad for the "pro-medical-ignorance-overblown-outrage-accusing-frustrated-casual-observers-of-being-quacks-camp."

[jokin]

]Sometimes poor results are nothing more than bad luck. [/b]

 

Most people I know do not own a perfect crystal ball so they have a real tough time knowing exactly what will happen in the future.

 

Apparently though' date=' this site is full of good folks with perfect crystal balls that permit them to judge the future exactly right every time.

 

Baseball is a game to enjoy, don't over complicate it.[/quote']

 

Except the Twins have defied the bad luck probabilites-threshold a long time ago. It's as if the Twins- to paraphrase Cream by way of blues great, Albert King- "didn't have bud luck, they'd have no luck at all.-

[Highabove]

Here is a recent statement from Carl Pavono

 

On August 21st, the Pioneer Press Quoted Carl Pavono's comments regarding the Misdiagnosis of his shoulder injury.

"It's too bad it took three months diagnose that," Pavano said from New York. "I could have been resting."Pavano hasn't pitched for the Twins since June 1 and scrapped a rehab start with Class A Fort Myers to see Altchek on Tuesday, Aug. 21. Twins doctors diagnosed Pavano with a strain in his shoulder capsule, but he said Altchek said the primary culprit is the bruise, which is causing inflammation and pain.

"The good news is it doesn't require surgery," Pavano said. "I've had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I've pitched a lot since then. But as far as I'm concerned this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It's just kind of lousy that it took this long.

 

 

Scott Baker

On May 8th 2012, B.N. National Baseball editor Rob Neyer wrote about and quoted Baker following his TJ Surgery.

While Scott Baker worked through elbow issues over the past two seasons, the Minnesota Twins right-hander heard the whispers both inside and outside Target Field.

"I knew I wasn't crazy," Baker said Friday. "I knew there was some speculation that maybe I was babying it or taking it easy, but good grief. I did everything I possibly could to get better and to try to pitch with it. But that just wasn't going to happen."

Baker battled pain in his elbow dating to 2010, and some urged him to try pitching through the pain. He was shut down for the season earlier this month and scheduled for surgery on his flexor pronator tendon. But once his arm was opened up, Dr. David Altchek made the decision that he needed Tommy John surgery to repair the ulnar collateral ligament.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

From the Freelance Editor's Desk:

 

Mr. Highabove: Good work citing your claim: Sorry i missed the Hardy quote. The followups from Pavano, Neshek, and Baker substantiate your claim. That's good Journalism 101. Thank for the good reporting. You added to this thread.

 

BHtwins, you write: "The Twins medical staff is pretty poorly respected among the agent community as well. Some players agents wont let a primary diagnosis come from them at all."

 

Can you cite that? Something from the agent community?

 

I still would like to hear more from the sports medicine community. One post from an orthopedic doc. Any physical/sports therapists, or other qualified medical professionals? What's your take?

 

Sorry for being anal on the source thing, but I spent two years as a sports intern at a regional daily paper while in college. I hated it. Too many late nights waiting for the coaches to call in the Friday night scores between Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton and Fertile-Beltrami. And too much time proof-reading copy. But they taught me to document my sources. We can too.

 

take care.

[Highabove]

I will put out a 5th Twins player.

 

Jason Kubel

Twins website September 27th 2011

Kubel in mid September, commenting on his foot injury.

"I don't like the way I went out and it's just been a frustrating season," Kubel said. "The initial thought [on May 30] was that it would be day to day and see how it goes, and it's still day to day now. But I guess it happens.

(We didn't give it the proper rest and it lingered all year.")

[Brock Beauchamp]

Mr Greed,

Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy? I will give you more documentation of a Player complaint.

Here is one from Pat Neshek

On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

 

"Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

 

On August 21st, the Pioneer Press Quoted Carl Pavono's comments regarding the Misdiagnosis of his shoulder injury.

"It's too bad it took three months diagnose that," Pavano said from New York. "I could have been resting."Pavano hasn't pitched for the Twins since June 1 and scrapped a rehab start with Class A Fort Myers to see Altchek on Tuesday, Aug. 21. Twins doctors diagnosed Pavano with a strain in his shoulder capsule, but he said Altchek said the primary culprit is the bruise, which is causing inflammation and pain.

"The good news is it doesn't require surgery," Pavano said. "I've had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I've pitched a lot since then. But as far as I'm concerned this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It's just kind of lousy that it took this long.

 

Scott Baker

On May 8th 2012, B.N. National Baseball editor Rob Neyer wrote about and quoted Baker following his TJ Surgery.

While Scott Baker worked through elbow issues over the past two seasons, the Minnesota Twins right-hander heard the whispers both inside and outside Target Field.

"I knew I wasn't crazy," Baker said Friday. "I knew there was some speculation that maybe I was babying it or taking it easy, but good grief. I did everything I possibly could to get better and to try to pitch with it. But that just wasn't going to happen."

Baker battled pain in his elbow dating to 2010, and some urged him to try pitching through the pain. He was shut down for the season earlier this month and scheduled for surgery on his flexor pronator tendon. But once his arm was opened up, Dr. David Altchek made the decision that he needed Tommy John surgery to repair the ulnar collateral ligament.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying the medical staff is without fault and some of those comments are certainly damning.

 

But that information is still incomplete, especially if you're trying to make a case to fire the "Twins medical staff". Who were these doctors? Were they the same person? Were they even part of the Twins' medical staff? How many different people came to this same conclusion about that particular injury? Is "rest and rehab" a part of the training staff's job or does the medical staff make that call? Are those two groups the same thing? We know so little about both the medical profession and this portion of the Twins organization that we're still firing shots in the dark.

[Highabove]

Mr Greed,

Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy? I will give you more documentation of a Player complaint.

Here is one from Pat Neshek

On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

 

"Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

 

On August 21st, the Pioneer Press Quoted Carl Pavono's comments regarding the Misdiagnosis of his shoulder injury.

"It's too bad it took three months diagnose that," Pavano said from New York. "I could have been resting."Pavano hasn't pitched for the Twins since June 1 and scrapped a rehab start with Class A Fort Myers to see Altchek on Tuesday, Aug. 21. Twins doctors diagnosed Pavano with a strain in his shoulder capsule, but he said Altchek said the primary culprit is the bruise, which is causing inflammation and pain.

"The good news is it doesn't require surgery," Pavano said. "I've had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I've pitched a lot since then. But as far as I'm concerned this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It's just kind of lousy that it took this long.

 

Scott Baker

On May 8th 2012, B.N. National Baseball editor Rob Neyer wrote about and quoted Baker following his TJ Surgery.

While Scott Baker worked through elbow issues over the past two seasons, the Minnesota Twins right-hander heard the whispers both inside and outside Target Field.

"I knew I wasn't crazy," Baker said Friday. "I knew there was some speculation that maybe I was babying it or taking it easy, but good grief. I did everything I possibly could to get better and to try to pitch with it. But that just wasn't going to happen."

Baker battled pain in his elbow dating to 2010, and some urged him to try pitching through the pain. He was shut down for the season earlier this month and scheduled for surgery on his flexor pronator tendon. But once his arm was opened up, Dr. David Altchek made the decision that he needed Tommy John surgery to repair the ulnar collateral ligament.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying the medical staff is without fault and some of those comments are certainly damning.

 

But that information is still incomplete, especially if you're trying to make a case to fire the "Twins medical staff". Who were these doctors? Were they the same person? Were they even part of the Twins' medical staff? How many different people came to this same conclusion about that particular injury? Is "rest and rehab" a part of the training staff's job or does the medical staff make that call? Are those two groups the same thing? We know so little about both the medical profession and this portion of the Twins organization that we're still firing shots in the dark.

 

Yesterday I stated the following,

"Comments by Players who have had issues with their treatment have been documented in the Print and Broadcast Media"

 

Several Forum Members have requested documentation which supports such a claim.

I have attempted to document the comments of five Twins Players.

That's it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yesterday, I stated that a number of Twins players were not happy with their Medical Treatment.

Several Forum Members have requested documation which supports such a claim.

I have attempted to document the comments of five Twins Players.

That's it.

 

My comments weren't necessarily aimed at you. Thanks for compiling those quotes, they definitely add to the conversation. I believe that there is something wrong with the Twins organization in regards to training and/or medical issues (or maybe even the front office itself). There are too many back-and-forths with players saying they expect a return on this date, miss it, and then end up hitting the DL with or without surgery. It's terribly inconsistent. Even JR has stated that it's something he planned to fix when he returned to the GM spot so you know it's something the organization is worried about.

 

On the other hand, which injuries were borne out of negligence? Which were a simple misdiagnosis that any physician could have made? Which were the "at fault" injuries and which were nothing more than a dose of bad luck and/or player misinformation?

 

Again, we don't know. If the front office does nothing over the next six months, I'll be disappointed in the lack of action (it's also possible they plan to change their internal procedures and we'll never know about it) but I'm also not going to go shooting my mouth off, pretending that I know about things that are far beyond my scope of knowledge.

[old nurse]

I'm not a staff writer for Strib or PP. I'm a poster on a message board. Im not getting paid to waste time.

 

Pay me free lance rates and Ill find you at least 5 quotes from players over the last 18 months complaining about the Twins med staff blowing their diagnosis. The fact is I found them....but Im not citing them because I DONT CARE. You cite them if this matters to you.

 

I'll find paragraphs of written angst from Joe Mauers torn meniscus taking too long. Weeks of written screed about shutting Liriano down to "rest" before he ultimately got TJ. Throw in some beautiful quotes of the staff questioning Grant Balfour's toughness when he complained of forearm tightness that ultimately turned into TJ. All of those are over 5 years ago. There are dozens of examples of Twins players getting 2nd and 3rd opinions and you'd have a tough time finding any major Twins player that had anything ortho done in-house.

 

If you think things are great....then fantastic. I dont care, I stated my opinion, which in general is a hell of lot more interesting then regurgitated tripe.

 

Opinion is one thing, claiming agents say things is another.