Castro out for Season

[Mike Sixel]

And add in the war for the pitcher and replacement for Gordon. You aren't not replacing them either. You are basically arguing, as far as I can tell, never trade top prospects. That's a fine stance that I disagree with, especially when getting a great player under multi year control.

[yarnivek1972]

But is a 3.6 WAR catcher going to be enough if the Twins don’t get 5-6 WAR each out of Sano and Buxton?

 

I don’t think it is. Too many bigger holes.

[Vanimal46]

I'm probably in the minority here in that I would trade Gordon and Gonsalves for Realmuto.

I'd be much obliged if someone could post a poll regarding this (or something similar). I'd like to know what people would be willing to give up.

That's probably the offer I would agree to give up. I'm just not that urgent to do it without seeing how Garver does first.

 

Unless Garver is the culprit costing the team wins let's see what he can do over his next 200 PAs and assess the situation in late June.

[Mike Sixel]

 

But is a 3.6 WAR catcher going to be enough if the Twins don’t get 5-6 WAR each out of Sano and Buxton?

I don’t think it is. Too many bigger holes.

 

Of course not....but he's a 2+ year "fix", not a one year rental. If you never add players until the last minute, you'll never add players. How would you fix the holes, without making any trades, and not signing long term free agents? Because no team is built only through the draft.

 

Do people only want ot make trades if it is the LAST PIECE?

[mudcat14]

Sano for Realmuto & Barraclough.  Tired of Miguel's health issues, which are almost exclusively due to his failure to be in shape.   

[Mr. Brooks]

Sano for Realmuto & Barraclough. Tired of Miguel's health issues, which are almost exclusively due to his failure to be in shape.

Marlins are in a full tear down and rebuild. Not sure why they'd have any interest in Sano.

[Rosterman]

I say go with Garver and hope he doesn't get hurt. See if he can be the player. Of course, if he is injured, the position becomes a black hole. We would wish we had Chris Gimenez, John Hicks, or maybe even Drew Butera.

 

Good news. Castro to the 60-day, so Twins won't have to drop someone when one of Santana or May returns.

 

Bad news. If Garver shines, we have a $6 million backup catcher next season proving he can still play ball.

 

Go Mitch Garver! Shine, Shine Shine.

 

Question: Who out of all the prospects in the top two levels would you rather see catching abckup, or is Wilson just fine for 20-25 games for the rest of the season.

 

[jorgenswest]

Realmuto is one of the best catchers in the game with team control through 2020. They need Lewis or Romero to headline the deal or they need to look elsewhere.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Realmuto is one of the best catchers in the game with team control through 2020. They need Lewis or Romero to headline the deal or they need to look elsewhere.

 

I guess I haven't felt like all the moves the Marlins have made have demanded that kind of price level.  I'm not saying you can get him cheap or anything, but I hope we explore the option.  That franchise is a trainwreck, go see if you can claim some of the spoils.

[jorgenswest]

I guess I haven't felt like all the moves the Marlins have made have demanded that kind of price level.  I'm not saying you can get him cheap or anything, but I hope we explore the option.  That franchise is a trainwreck, go see if you can claim some of the spoils.

I am certain every team would agree.

 

I am all in if Gordon, Gonsalves or Sano headline the trade. If that level would get the trade done, he would have been moved by now. The Marlins will get a better headliner in the trade.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

What a mess. The injury probably nagged at Castro and might explain his performance at the plate this year. Castro also had a terrible "catcher ERA" this year but his CS% was excellent.

 

I don't personally mind Garver and Wilson for the short term, but each has real question marks. Within the next 30-60 days I predict either that the Twins make an outside acquisition, or that the glaring need for an outside acquisition becomes apparent.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

By getting better all around, by adding MLB talent. Assuming Gordon is worse than Dozier next year, how are they better next year? If it is from their existing players, well, all those but Gordon and Gonsalves would still be here, except Dozier. And Sano and Buxton don't have much window left after this year. Realmuto aligns much better to their time here than Gordon does.

While I'm not against trading Gordon, you don't do it unless you're confident it will pay huge rewards.

 

Because if you trade Gonsalves and Gordon for a guy with two years remaining before free agency, you have two years, maybe three, to compete. Then the window slams shut in a hurry.

 

Gordon and Gonsalves can keep the window open a lot longer than two years because they're not the end of the road on the farm. The Twins also have guys like Thorpe, Enlow, Lewis, Rooker, et al following Gordon and Gonsalves.

 

Again, it's not wrong to trade Gordon and Gonsalves under the right circumstances, you just better be damned sure it's a good deal and/or you have enough firepower behind them to keep the window open.

 

I'm not worried about how Gordon/Gonsalves align with Buxton and Sano as much as I'm interested in seeing the Twins compete at a high level for the longest possible time. Ultimately, that will mean trading prospects and narrowing your window a bit but I don't care about young player overlap because that's generally a good thing.

[Mike Sixel]

While I'm not against trading Gordon, you don't do it unless you're confident it will pay huge rewards.

 

Because if you trade Gonsalves and Gordon for a guy with two years remaining before free agency, you have two years, maybe three, to compete. Then the window slams shut in a hurry.

 

Gordon and Gonsalves can keep the window open a lot longer than two years because they're not the end of the road on the farm. The Twins also have guys like Thorpe, Enlow, Lewis, Rooker, et al following Gordon and Gonsalves.

 

Again, it's not wrong to trade Gordon and Gonsalves under the right circumstances, you just better be damned sure it's a good deal and/or you have enough firepower behind them to keep the window open.

 

I'm not worried about how Gordon/Gonsalves align with Buxton and Sano as much as I'm interested in seeing the Twins compete at a high level for the longest possible time. Ultimately, that will mean trading prospects and narrowing your window a bit but I don't care about young player overlap because that's generally a good thing.

In general, this makes sense. But, as we know, mid market teams have windows and cycles. We've learned over and over that they can't compete forever. Do we really think the window extends beyond Sano and Buxton and Dozier and Mauer and Rosario? That would be unusual for a mid market team, I think.

[howieramone2]

 

In general, this makes sense. But, as we know, mid market teams have windows and cycles. We've learned over and over that they can't compete forever. Do we really think the window extends beyond Sano and Buxton and Dozier and Mauer and Rosario? That would be unusual for a mid market team, I think.

The 2017 draft was an aberration. If I'm not mistaken, only once before has a team with the 1-1 pick made the play-offs. Also, we haven't received anywhere near the credit we deserve for our performance in IFA for quite some time. This franchise could not possibly be more healthy. We may not be a contender forever, but it's sure going to seem like it to the rest of the Central.

[Mike Sixel]

The 2017 draft was an aberration. If I'm not mistaken, only once before has a team with the 1-1 pick made the play-offs. Also, we haven't received anywhere near the credit we deserve for our performance in IFA for quite some time. This franchise could not possibly be more healthy. We may not be a contender forever, but it's sure going to seem like it to the rest of the Central.

I agree with that. They are in good shape right now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In general, this makes sense. But, as we know, mid market teams have windows and cycles. We've learned over and over that they can't compete forever. Do we really think the window extends beyond Sano and Buxton and Dozier and Mauer and Rosario? That would be unusual for a mid market team, I think.

I think it extends beyond those guys’ arb years because the Twins can and should be able to keep 2-3 of them and fill in the rest of the roster with the guys I mentioned earlier.

 

It won’t keep the window open forever because that’s impossible for a mid-market team. But it can extend a 2-3 year window to 4-5 years and that should be the goal.

[yarnivek1972]

You keep typing we are trying to replace Sano with him.... No.... Castro and Garver are replaced. It's a huge step up from them. It's not about Sano and Buxton at all, other than trying to surround them with great players, unlike sitting on Mauer and morneau and not adding talent.

One problem: Sano and Buxton aren’t yet even close to Mauer and Morneau at their peak. And that’s my point. If you trade away your prospects for a guy 3 years from FA, you are in win now mode. And if Sano and Buxton both don’t become stars, you aren’t going to win now anyway.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I am certain every team would agree.

I am all in if Gordon, Gonsalves or Sano headline the trade. If that level would get the trade done, he would have been moved by now. The Marlins will get a better headliner in the trade.

 

It's also possible that teams are just not that interested in trading a lot of assets for catchers.  They do tend to have more variance in production and durability.

[Vanimal46]

One problem: Sano and Buxton aren’t yet even close to Mauer and Morneau at their peak. And that’s my point. If you trade away your prospects for a guy 3 years from FA, you are in win now mode. And if Sano and Buxton both don’t become stars, you aren’t going to win now anyway.

The prospects aren't going to help move the needle much anyway if Sano and Buxton don't become stars. This contending cycle is entirely built on their success.

 

The next contending cycle in the 2020 decade is built on Lewis and others in A ball right now.

 

TLDR: if Buxton or Sano don't develop into stars we're all wasting our time.

[USAFChief]

 

The prospects aren't going to help move the needle much anyway if Sano and Buxton don't become stars. This contending cycle is entirely built on their success.

The next contending cycle in the 2020 decade is built on Lewis and others in A ball right now.

TLDR: if Buxton or Sano don't develop into stars we're all wasting our time.

So the club might as well proceed under the assumption they will, and attempt to surround them with the appropriate level of supporting pieces. 

 

If neither of those two are stars, hoarding middling prospects does no good anyway.

[Mike Sixel]

So the club might as well proceed under the assumption they will, and attempt to surround them with the appropriate level of supporting pieces.

 

If neither of those two are stars, hoarding middling prospects does no good anyway.

Correct. There will never be a time of perfect information about the future, but if they don't act out of fear that Sano and Buxton aren't great, well, when would they?

[jorgenswest]

Gordon is likely a 2B. Gonsalves is likely a fourth starter. The Marlins should seek prospects with better ceilings. One high ceiling guy is better than these two higher floor low ceiling guys. The return for Yelich was so much better and he isn’t a catcher.

 

Also I keep reading two years here. His earliest free agent is 2021 according to baseball reference. Isn’t that three years or do we round down to 2 to help fit our narrative? Maybe baseball reference is incorrect. Otherwise trading for him helps the Twins in 3 seasons.

 

Lewis or Romero or look elsewhere.

[Mike Sixel]

Gordon is likely a 2B. Gonsalves is likely a fourth starter. The Marlins should seek prospects with better ceilings. One high ceiling guy is better than these two higher floor low ceiling guys. The return for Yelich was so much better and he isn’t a catcher.

 

Also I keep reading two years here. His earliest free agent is 2021 according to baseball reference. Isn’t that three years or do we round down to 2 to help fit our narrative? Maybe baseball reference is incorrect. Otherwise trading for him helps the Twins in 3 seasons.

 

Lewis or Romero or look elsewhere.

So three plus years? Even better. One of the to catchers in the game, for three plus years? I give up anyone in the minors for that.

[jorgenswest]

So three plus years? Even better. One of the to catchers in the game, for three plus years? I give up anyone in the minors for that.

Wouldn’t free agent 2021 give them the next three post seasons and not the +?

[Mike Sixel]

Wouldn’t free agent 2021 give them the next three post seasons and not the +?

Which is why everyone is typing two plus....

[yarnivek1972]

I think it’s time to stop thinking about acquiring players to help in 2018.

 

That ship has sailed and hit an iceburg IMO.

 

If they want to try to get help for 2019 and beyond, fine. But this team doesn’t have the talent to contend with the elite teams of the league.

[mudcat14]

I'd love to get Realmuto, but would balk at the Marlins asking price.  I believe the prudent move would be to target Wilson Ramos.  As an impending FA, the asking price would be much lower.  Badoo and Stewart or possibly even less would get it done.  Tampa would appreciate the $5mil or so in salary relief.