Article: LAA 7, MIN 4: What’s Up With Berrios?

[Darius]

Berrios certainly wasn't at his best, but he still ended up giving the team a shot to win.

 

Realistically, he's just not going to throw a 2-hit shutout with 9 Ks every night. People have gotten the idea in their head that he's a high-end Ace type guy, but he's never profiled as that type of pitcher. Scouting reports and prospect analysis has always tabbed him as likely more of a middle of the rotation guy. That is mainly because he's a fly ball pitcher, that's too short to generate much of a downward plane, making him highly susceptible to the long ball at the major league level. We're seeing that.

 

At some point, everyone needs some help from the bullpen. Presley, as good as he's been, didn't exactly make the Angels beat him last night, he gave them the opportunity with a wild pitch, and followed that up with a two-out run scoring hit from the 9 batter.

 

Even if Berrios was a little better last night, it likely wouldnt have mattered. This bullpen is terrible.

 

I agree with the comments above questionin the pitching coach. Not exactly doom. A bangup job this year. Aside from Gibson, who carried things over from last year, and Romero who is a fresh call-up with astronomical talent, nobody has been pitching all that well.

 

The extra strikeouts are nice (went fro from like 30th to 9th)....but only as far as they actually help you win ball games.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Darius

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Stop with the strike zone. Unless you're willing to argue that Barrios has had tough strike zones for 4 straight games.

The strike zone was part of the story last Edited May 11, 2018 by Hosken Bombo Disco

[twins1095]

 

Stop with the strike zone.  Unless you're willing to argue that Barrios has had tough strike zones for 4 straight games.

 

His issue is command.  Always has been.  And, when looking at larger samples, you can argue that he's trending still in the right direction.  I don't think he'll fail for either lack of work-ethic or lack of stuff.  It's just can he find the consistency in all the mechanical stuff that results in throwing the ball where he wants to most times he goes out there.

 

I think you can acknowledge weak strike zones and the frustration that might cause and in the last 3 or 4 starts I've tuned in there's been a lot of interesting strike zones, while also acknowledging how Berrios has to learn to overcome that and change to those zones, not unravel, etc. 

 

5-10 pitches a game that go one way or another can be 3, 4, 5 extra base-runners or extra outs which can be a multiple run difference.  Now this is a little bit extreme, but completely denying this from being true is denying a reality.  

 

However, this factor goes both ways and is something that all teams and pitchers deal with...but it undeniably can affect a game and it can affect a game in a big way. 

 

Berrios struggles with command at times--yes this is true.  However it seems to me, especially this year, when he's struggling command he's usually not missing by much.  Now maybe Berrios needs to stop trying to make perfect pitches and attack the zone more, maybe he needs to do a bunch of things...it almost seems that Berrios is so confident in his ability to work on the blacks of the plate that he puts himself in those situations.  

 

But yes Berrios struggles with command at times, especially when pitching from the stretch with runners on.  He gets himself in situations where his "pitcher's pitch" doesn't get called, base-runners get on, he loses composure and innings unravel and he gets even more frustrated.  

 

Acknowledging all of this isn't making excuses for Berrios nor is it saying that he doesn't have to figure out how to get better in these scenarios.  He does and he'll learn.  The margin of error in the MLB is extremely fine and Berrios is finding that out the hard way.  A lot of this is just an experience thing that will get better with time.  

 

[MN_ExPat]

 

Berrios,like most of the Twins top prospects that have made there way to MLB, is overated. He is a #3 at best. Maybe a #4. 

Umm.... what??

[jkcarew]

 

The strike zone was part of the story last

Because we're making it part of the story.  The strike zone can be a story 162 games a year.

[Darius]

Another note: Berrios is still young (23). That's something that should be considered. Inconsistency should be expected to some degree. If he's going through stretches like this at age 25+ then I'll start to worry.

 

The problem, IMO, is that this team is forced to rely on Berrios to be its horse throughout the season. It's a combination of poor roster management (from past regime), bad drafting (previous regime), reluctance to put up real money for free agent SPs (previous regime), injury (Santana)......there are a multitude of contributing factors. All of which, aside from injury, are missteps from management.

 

Basically, my point is, it's easy to turn on Berrios and hold him responsible for the team's woes when he has a few bad games. But, let's not lose sight of the big picture here. He's been fighting an uphill battle in this organization for years, and some unrealistic expectations have been attached due to the dearth of pitching for years and years.

 

In my opinion, I think he's a better pitcher in a different organization. Cole from Astros comes to mind. High-end stuff, but mysteriously underachieved in toxic Pittsburgh. He gets out of there and is surrounded by a dynamic winning culture, and it looks like he's going to run away with the Cy Young this year (sub .75 WHIP, 1.5 FIP, 1.47 ERA, .250 BABIP, etc....not really looking like a flash in the pan). Keep in mind that he moved from the NL to the AL, which isn't easy.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Darius

[USAFChief]

 

The strike zone was part of the story last

I can't get behind that, Hosken. At the least, it shouldn't have been.

 

He was missing, over the plate. Curveball command was especially bad, but even too many FBs were right in the whomp 'em zone.

[joefish]

Buxton took pretty good swings. That's a good thing, even if he missed. He saw the ball.

Pressly gave it away. But he's been good. Berrios struggled. A couple bad curve balls. A tight zone for both pitchers. They outhit and outpitched us.

[yarnivek1972]

The only thing wrong with Berrios is that he’s 23 with only a couple hundred MLB innings under his belt. It usually isn’t a linear progression for players. There are peaks and valleys. That’s simply reality.

[TFRazor]

Remember we dropped the Friday night game to the White Sox last week. Then went on a 5 game win streak. Two of which came against a very good Cards team in their park. The amount of angst I'm feeling over last nights game is nada. Yeah we lost but wasn't like we got dominated. We were in the game throughout, made a comeback but it fell short. Accept it for what it is, a night that the ball just didn't fall our way.

[Old Twins Cap]

Berrios is more of a thrower than a pitcher at this point.

 

Why he can't get his curve ball to work during some starts is one of the mysteries of baseball, but even still, as a pitcher, not a thrower, you find a way to minimize the damage.

 

He has two good fastballs and a change-up. As he matures, he will figure out what in his arsenal is working and what isn't on any particular night.

 

Still, I bet the Twins lead the league in giving up homeruns with 2 strikes.

[wsnydes]

 

The strike zone was part of the story last

I'll preface this by stating that I didn't see the game, only the highlights, but it would seem that hanging breaking balls were the story in my view.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Remember we dropped the Friday night game to the White Sox last week. Then went on a 5 game win streak. Two of which came against a very good Cards team in their park. The amount of angst I'm feeling over last nights game is nada. Yeah we lost but wasn't like we got dominated. We were in the game throughout, made a comeback but it fell short. Accept it for what it is, a night that the ball just didn't fall our way.

Yeah, even the best teams lose a lot in baseball. Last night wasn't some inexcusable loss.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

I can't get behind that, Hosken. At the least, it shouldn't have been.

 

He was missing, over the plate. Curveball command was especially bad, but even too many FBs were right in the whomp 'em zone.

Fair. 

[mrmpls]

Why do the twins let him pitch with 2 or 3 gold chains hanging out, LOOKS  STUPID and i dont know why he wears them out of his jersey

[h2oface]

 

And why should Escobar and Rosario be expected to carry this team every night? There are other guys in the lineup that they aren't getting any run production from. When was the last time Mauer drove in 3 or 4 runs? How about whoever is catching? No production from that spot lately. Yes Morrison has been a bust. Adrianza has done nothing. So, Dozier and Keplar delivered last night.... Where's Sano? Where's Polonco? Where's Buxton? Those 3 bats were suppose to be a big part of the lineup resurgence. Only 4 of the 9 guys in the current Twins lineup are producing runs, Rosario, Escobar, Keplar and Dozier. The other 5 aren't tough to pitch to and other teams know it. And yes, Berrios looks like an Ace 1 minute and a lost little leaguer the next. His command of his pitches is a guessing game at this point. He's got great movement on his pitches but he doesn't know where it is going once he releases it. Not good!

 

I never said they are expected to carry the team every night, did I. I just said it would have been nice to get something from them this night. It was needed.They had the opportunities. It is not unnoticed, nor unappreciated, that they are carrying the team right now.

[h2oface]

 

Was watching the hockey game with a few brief stops at the Twins.  Saw a couple batters in the 1st or 2nd inning where Berrios threw 3 strikes (one at the top of the box, one at the bottom and one on the outside corner) that all showed most of the ball in the strike zone.  All three were called balls.  Could see his frustration.

 

He had to put the ball over the middle to get a strike and a couple batters latter...boom, 2-0 Angels.

 

Yup. The only thing that will fix all strikes and balls being called the most correct possible is automation. 

[h2oface]

 

The ball-strike calling was equally poor for both sides. Berrios needs to not let it get in his head, somehow. So, we agree.

 

Which just makes it worse. Lots of incorrect calls. Pitchers getting robbed, and batters getting robbed. Business as usual, even though the tech is there to correct it.

[h2oface]

 

Because we're making it part of the story.  The strike zone can be a story 162 games a year.

 

Don't forget how it changes every playoff game, too. Best to do nothing, and just keep letting it happen, I guess. I mean, because there is no better alternative available.