Article: Buxton’s Back: Was No Rehab a Mistake?

[Doomtints]

No rehab? A mistake?

 

Buxton is needed for his defense.  

 

Putting him on a rehab assignment in the first place was a mistake. Work on his swing in the minors after an injury? Who cares! Get him up here. The Twins missed his defense mightily in his absence.

[twinssporto]

I think some of these rehab assignments are ridiculous.  I can understand missing well over a month of baseball games but for a guy out 10 days even three weeks, get him back in the game.  We are starting to see more players coming off the DL and going right back to work with their major league team.  

 

Buxton is unusual in the fact his defensive skills are so much better than an average outfielder.  I'd rather see him playing right away than sitting in AAA.  I can't stomach another game with Grossman patrolling the outfield.   

Edited May 11, 2018 by twinssporto

[Riverbrian]

His CF defensive abilities are elite. Best in the league and apparently didn't need rehab time to return to that level. 

 

Until his offense comes around... bat him 9th and let him go get the baseballs. It'll all come out in the wash. 

 

 

[mikelink45]

 

My only point with the age is that he has time to figure it out.  Sure, there's a long list of young players that took off immediately.  Not everyone does.  Everyone has their own learning curve.  Comparing anyone to generational greats and then expecting them to live up to it is setting yourself up for disappointment.  Frankly, it's unfair to the player.  The vast majority of players never even sniff that level talent. There's an even longer list of players that have enormous potential and never realize it.  That's what makes the generational greats so rare.  

I understand and your points are good.  I just do not want to use age as a factor.  The pub he got when he first was signed made him seem like a Trout or Griffey and they jumped right in.  Buxton is an interesting case and I wonder what coach or changes will be needed to turn the corner for him. 

[mikelink45]

 

Did Buxton not hit .253 last year?  Since when did becoming Kris Bryant, Bryce Harper, or Mike Trout be come the barometer of an impactful player.  

 

Buxton struggles to make consistent contact and is probably always going to struggle to do so.  Further, injuries have pretty consistently kept him from being able to really get in a rhythm playing long stretches of games healthily--which obviously isn't a positive.  Buxton had a similar type slump in his first 50-80 ABs last year and hit pretty close to .270 for the remaining 90% of the season.  

 

Buxton's gonna be a streaky hitter who struggles to hit for a high average, strikes out a lot, and because of this go through periods where he slumps hard.  That doesn't mean that over a full 162 game season he isn't going to be a productive player.  His speed and feel for base-running and his ability to drive balls and find gaps when he does make contact mean that he makes a bunch of positive plays too.  

 

His 162 game pace last year put him at 80 runs, 17 2Bs, 7 3Bs, 19 HRs, 60 RBIs, 35 SBs.  I use the 162 game pace to just show his impact on a per game basis in a similar way to how the NBA lists player stats as 25 points per game/8 assists per game/etc. and players are judged that way even if they only play 65 games.  (Not discounting that health is a concern)  Those numbers were largely from hitting near the bottom of the order too.  

 

Is that Mike Trout?  No, but that level of offensive production combined with the value his defense brings to a team put him somewhere between a top 15 and top 25 player in terms of WAR for position players. 

 

I'll take a guy with that kind of impact even with his limitations and the fact that he isn't "Mike Trout or Bryce Harper". 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

I'm pretty excited we have a guy, who's only 24, on the team that can impact the game at that high of a level in his own way.   

I am not saying that Buxton is not going to be a good player, but he has more potential than good.  I just do not want age to be the starting point for debate because I only listed a few of the many players in the majors that are succeeding at high level at his age and they are not just Trout and Harper.  Yes he did bat 253 last year and 209 225 and 186 in the other three.  We need some consistency from him.  Is it too much to expect a player with his ability to start rising to higher levels?  

 

 

[wsnydes]

 

I understand and your points are good.  I just do not want to use age as a factor.  The pub he got when he first was signed made him seem like a Trout or Griffey and they jumped right in.  Buxton is an interesting case and I wonder what coach or changes will be needed to turn the corner for him. 

I think the disconnect between our stances is that you're trying to use comps to generational stars.  My point is that these comparisons are unfair and unreasonable in the first place.  Some guys can do it, some can't.  It's not an age thing, it's a comparison thing.

 

I'm discouraged that he's not performing too.  I have high hopes for him still.  Experience is more important than age in the first place.  I do expect more out of him than what he's showing.  Same goes for Sano.  I just don't expect them to be Mike Trout or Ken Griffey, Jr.  Comparisons are meaningless, but fact of the matter is that hey both need to hit better.  Plain and simple.  I think we can both agree on that! 

Edited May 11, 2018 by wsnydes

[Steve Lein]

I wouldn't have put him on a rehab assignment in the first place, so that was mistake number one. 

 

Probably would have put him on one now after what happened on the first one, so they're doubling up in my opinion.

[ewen21]

 

Let's chill on racking Buxton for now. He's played all of 11 games before last night. For context, before last night Brian Dozier was sporting a .418 OPS in his past 16 games. Guys get hot and get cold, let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

I didn't see where anyone was ripping him.

 

I get what you are saying about slumps, but Buxton is a sub .700 OPS for his career right now.  People are concerned (and rightly so) about his propensity for injuries and his unreliable bat.  

[Broker]

I know Buxton counts for an extra out or two over the other guys playing center. However it's not like the other guys miss everything hit their way. Unfortunately Buxton can't seem to hit. When he comes to the plate I just assume there will be another out on the scoreboard. Great defense is fine but the team needs offense too. In this game you have to score more runs than the other team. Buxton isn't contributing to scoring any runs.

[glunn]

 

Rehab probably wouldn't have hurt but I still expect #9 batter production out of him.    IMO, he should legitimately try to bunt for base hits twice a game until the rest comes around   I thought it helped him get on track last year and it can help him this year.   Its such a great weapon for him and I haven't even seen him try it this year.

I was at the game on Thursday night and the Angels' third baseman was playing him deep. Any decent bunt towards third base would have been an easy single. Instead Buxton flailed and failed.

[ewen21]

 

I am not saying that Buxton is not going to be a good player, but he has more potential than good.  I just do not want age to be the starting point for debate because I only listed a few of the many players in the majors that are succeeding at high level at his age and they are not just Trout and Harper.  Yes he did bat 253 last year and 209 225 and 186 in the other three.  We need some consistency from him.  Is it too much to expect a player with his ability to start rising to higher levels?  

I agree with you.  THis idea that his speed and defense is so marvelous that he makes an impact is all well and good, but I have to be honest about his bat and that is a large part of a position player's game.  HIs bat is just not good.  Period.  I am wondering and waiting when it will come around because his sub .700 career OPS and .230something lifetime average at this point is making me question that part of his game.  Not sure how it is a bad thing or a "negative thing" to discuss this honestly as fans.  Are we to not discuss this because it is "negative"??

 

 

[ewen21]

 

  

 

Is that Mike Trout?  No, but that level of offensive production combined with the value his defense brings to a team put him somewhere between a top 15 and top 25 player in terms of WAR for position players. 

 

I'll take a guy with that kind of impact even with his limitations and the fact that he isn't "Mike Trout or Bryce Harper". 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

I'm pretty excited we have a guy, who's only 24, on the team that can impact the game at that high of a level in his own way.   

That's nice, but if we are having a discussion about the offensive part of his game we need to be honest.  I never made the comparison to MIke Trout, but that certainly happened.  Baseball America ranked him the #1 prospect, not me or any poster here.  A lot has been made about him for a bunch of years already and his offense just is not very good.  Can he turn it on and become an above average offensive player?  That is becoming harder and harder to believe for me.

 

I am concerned about two things:

1.  His approach and results from the batter's box and 2. The mounting of injuries

 

Is it unreasonable for fans to have a discussion about their concerns on these things?  Are we only suppose to praise him for his speed and simply "accept" this kind of offensive performance?  Not me.  

[Doctor Wu]

 

My feeling would be that Buxton seems to start out about 2 for 50 with 25 K's in any scenario...might as well get it out of the way as fast as possible.  Have to just give him the at-bats even though it's horrifically painful to watch.

 

We're in year year 4 with both Buxton and Sano, and due to injuries and uneven performance, we're still in "need to find out" mode with both.  Frustrating.

I'm also feeling frustrated by Buxton's continuing slow starts and the nagging injuries. I love watching him play center field and run the bases. Not many players can match that excitement. But I'm starting to have my doubts that he'll ever be more than a .250 hitter. Man, I hope I'm wrong about that. But I'm also getting tired of the "he's only 24" excuses for his struggles. It's time for him to make the jump to the next level.

[Mill1634]

Buxton needs to learn to either hit the curve, or not swing at the curve. As for the question at hand, probably should have just been activated after the migraines. As for the 2nd stint on the DL, I would have rehabbed him and activated him after the LAA series. Great defense is good, but bad offense hurts too. Especially with a teams bottom order of adrianza, a struggling buxton, and bobby Wilson.

[ewen21]

I don't see how great defense cancels out a sub .200 bat.  The fact is a player usually makes four or five trips to the plate every game.  They might have a few put outs per game, but almost all of them are fairly routine and there aren't many opportunities for great defenders to make great defensive plays (only THEY can make).  There could be 25 plate appearances (or more) in between those events great plays and even then he is competing against other CFs who can also make great plays.

 

For him to be a player with a lot of value he is going to need to start hitting.  What he is doing now to start every season is not acceptable.  Something is amiss and he needs to figure out what it is because the all-world speed won't be there as time goes forward.  At that point he will be another fast guy who hits .240 and doesn't get on base.  Unless he becomes a better hitter and that is questionable with what I have seen.

[Pitz]

So the conversation has kind of moved on from the original question about Buxton needing some rehab time, but I was just reading this and (unless I'm not understanding it correctly) it makes me think Buxton wouldn't have even been eligible to go on much of a rehab assignment.

 

 

With approval of the MLB Commissioner, if a player incurs a new (different) injury or illness or suffers a recurrence of the previous injury or illness while on a Minor League Rehab Assignment, the player must be recalled from his Rehab Assignment and remain inactive for at least five days (for position players) or seven days (for pitchers) before starting another Minor League Rehab Assignment.

 

I guess he still had 1 or 2 days left from his original rehab assignment, but that probably wasn't worth it. And it probably wouldn't have been worth it to recall him, sit him for five days, then send him back on rehab. Might as well get him back in the outfield and hope he catches up to speed with the bat soon. 

[Riverbrian]

Last night I was fading in and out of consciousness trying to stay awake to watch the game. 

 

It was the 7th inning I believe. Buxton was at the plate. 

 

1st Pitch: He took a below average fastball pretty much dead center for a strike. 

 

2nd Pitch: He fouled off a slider that was around a foot outside. 

 

3rd Pitch: He swung and missed a slider that was pretty much dead center for a strike. 

 

The pitcher was Noe Ramirez, his slider has this tight little break that doesn't break enough to tempt someone a foot outside like he did on the 2nd pitch or enough stuff on it to survive hanging it dead center like he did on the third pitch. 

 

It was just one at-bat. I don't want to seem like I'm fixating on one at-bat but it was a real bad at-bat. 3 Pitches from Noe Ramirez and then sit down.

 

It was tough to watch. 

 

It was just one at-bat but he has some work to do. Get the Film Room Byron and take a look at what you are swinging at. 

[USAFChief]

Last night I was fading in and out of consciousness trying to stay awake to watch the game. 

 

It was the 7th inning I believe. Buxton was at the plate. 

 H

1st Pitch: He took a below average fastball pretty much dead center for a strike. 

 

2nd Pitch: He fouled off a slider that was around a foot outside. 

 

3rd Pitch: He swung and missed a slider that was pretty much dead center for a strike. 

 

The pitcher was Noe Ramirez, his slider has this tight little break that doesn't break enough to tempt someone a foot outside like he did on the 2nd pitch or enough stuff on it to survive hanging it dead center like he did on the third pitch. 

 

It was just one at-bat. I don't want to seem like I'm fixating on one at-bat but it was a real bad at-bat. 3 Pitches from Noe Ramirez and then sit down.

 

It was tough to watch. 

 

It was just one at-bat but he has some work to do. Get the Film Room Byron and take a look at what you are swinging at.

 

I’ll say the same as I said last year...the way too frequent inability to punish pitches that should be punished is much more concerning to me than the tendency to swing and miss on pitches out of the zone.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I’ll say the same as I said last year...the way too frequent inability to punish pitches that should be punished is much more concerning to me than the tendency to swing and miss on pitches out of the zone.

Perhaps he's been listening to Mauer about swinging at the first pitch...

 

/ducks

[Mike Sixel]

Rehab or no, send him down until he hits in AAA. No defense is worth this.

[howeda7]

I'm rapidly losing faith that Buxton will ever be more than a .220 #9 hitter who plays great defense. What a shame. 

[jun]

Perhaps he's been listening to Mauer about swinging at the first pitch...

 

/ducks

He is not Joe Mauer. Not even close. Edited May 19, 2018 by jun

[GameDay]

I'm going to go on record stating that Buxton turned out to be a gigantic failure. He will likely never have a plus bat at the major league level and that's a franchise crusher from the standpoint that he is a former #1 draft pick and #1 prospect and was expected to be a perennial all-star.

 

The organization and especially us fans have been pretty darn patient with the guy and have even noted special circumstances in players slow in their development. The fact is that its his 4th MLB season now and he looks just as lost at the plate as he did when he broke into the league. Barring significant developments, I just don't see how he's going to be a special player/organization changer outside of his defensive prowess.

[USAFChief]

I'm rapidly losing faith that Buxton will ever be more than a .220 #9 hitter who plays great defense. What a shame.

I love the optimism, but man I just don't know if he can improve that much.

[ewen21]

When you come to this site or even the mlb site for the Twins Buxton is prominently featured in marketing statements.  Even on television he is prominently featured, assumed to be a star.  Bremer, Hunter and whomever else sits in the booth heap accolades on him.  Articles were written about his wonderful talents and amazing potential were for a number of years even after his shaky start.  He was the 2nd pick in the 1st round and was compared to some great players.  Tom Kelly, among other "sages" in the Twins organization professed an unlimited ceiling.  On and on it went...…

 

Is it any fan's fault to start wondering what the Hell is going on with this guy?  I am being serious.  He doesn't just look bad.  He looks Brian Buchanan bad in some at bats.  So bad, that the speed and defense could hardly justify a place in the batting order any longer.  I never hyped him up or had super high expectations.  I just don't get that way.  I wanted to wait and see what the guy would do as a major leaguer and thus far he has instilled ZERO confidence in me.

[ewen21]

 

I'm going to go on record stating that Buxton turned out to be a gigantic failure. He will likely never have a plus bat at the major league level and that's a franchise crusher from the standpoint that he is a former #1 draft pick and #1 prospect and was expected to be a perennial all-star.

.

 

YOu are correct about that and I will take it a little further.....

No fan should be accused of "buying the hype".  Whether anyone did or didn't means absolutely nothing.

 

What is important is that it is 2018 and just about anyone associated with this team had big expectations for this kid by now.  It isn't your fault or any other fan's fault that he is playing well below expectations.

 

I think a big thing with Buxton is the psychological part of the game.  He is almost deferential out there.  Kind of like he is still in the apprentice stage.

[jkcarew]

It’s probably good for all of us to remember that some scouts questioned the upside of his bat right from the beginning and maintained that stance even when he was raking in the minors.

 

Probably also worth reiterating that he doesn’t have to be a league average hitter to be a good player. If he’s within 10% of that, he’s a good player. If he’s an OPS+ 95 guy, he’s basically Paul Blair...a near perennial all-star. Hype aside, that would be a good outcome even for a number two pick.

[TheLeviathan]

There is so much natural talent, but the approach at the plate is baffling.

[ashbury]

There is so much natural talent, but the approach at the plate is baffling.

If he's been under Rowson's tutelage, I would suggest Byron have a heart-to-heart with Eduardo Escobar, who has a sneaky ability to pull the ball with intent once in a while but seems not to overdo it, and see what he can glean from him.

 

My own suggestion would be to impose the self-discipline to swing for the fences at most once in a game, for the rest of the season. One swing. As the pitch comes in, consider whether this is the one pitch that is worth taking a crack at like that. Otherwise, level line-drive swing, or bunt for a base hit, or work the count toward a walk.

 

Of course, Yogi said^* you can't think and hit - and perhaps Byron would not benefit from my tutelage either.

 

^{* _{And if he didn't, he probably still did}}

[TheLeviathan]

 

If he's been under Rowson's tutelage, I would suggest Byron have a heart-to-heart with Eduardo Escobar, who has a sneaky ability to pull the ball with intent once in a while but seems not to overdo it, and see what he can glean from him.

 

My own suggestion would be to impose the self-discipline to swing for the fences at most once in a game, for the rest of the season. One swing. As the pitch comes in, consider whether this is the one pitch that is worth taking a crack at like that. Otherwise, level line-drive swing, or bunt for a base hit, or work the count toward a walk.

 

Of course, Yogi said^* you can't think and hit - and perhaps Byron would not benefit from my tutelage either.

 

^{* _{And if he didn't, he probably still did}}

 

If I'm the Twins I pick one person, whomever that may be, and make that the only person Byron is allowed to talk to about his approach and give whatever tutelage is attempted a good, long try.

 

But yeah, it'd be nice if he focused on being a line-drive hitter and not a boom or bounce-it-on-the-ground-and-pray swing all the time.