Can we please be done with Robbie Grossman?

[howeda7]

His defense is awful. He single handedly gave up the tying run tonight. He's allowed multiple runs this week alone. And he's hitting .185. He doesn't even draw walks anymore. Granite or any replacement level player would be an upgrade. Why are we clinging to him?

[Mike Sixel]

Lamonte Wade, please

[Mike Sixel]

I see Wade had a home run today....

[curt1965]

Because Grossman has some damaging pictures............

[darin617]

 

Because Grossman has some damaging pictures............

The Nick Punto effect is alive and well.

[wsnydes]

 

The Nick Punto effect is alive and well.

Except Punto could at least fill in serviceably basically anywhere you put him in the field.  Guys like that at least have some value.  Grossman "plays" one position brutally and unless pop ups have become en vogue, he's not hitting well enough to justify the roster spot on a underperforming team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Anybody care to defend the Grossman/LaMarre arrangement today?

 

I get it, in theory. Offensive-minded player starts, then you sub him out for a defensive-minded replacement in the late innings if you have a lead. That's not uncommon.

 

But Grossman's offensive upside looks pretty average these days, and his defense is just brutal. I don't know if we can afford to put him out there for the first 6-7 innings anymore.

 

And it's not a problem that will go away as soon as you activate Buxton. Grossman as the 4th outfielder will still get outfield starts (the top 3 can't/won't start every day), and Grossman in that role will necessitate keeping a 5th outfielder as his defensive caddy, at the expense of the pitching staff, infield, pinch hitting, etc.

 

I think you could drop LaMarre, then call up Wade to start every day. See if he can approach Grossman's offense, while providing competent defense. If he can, you've got yourself a viable, REAL 4th outfielder, and potentially relieved your need for a 5th outfielder. You could keep Grossman around for pinch hitting and emergency outfield duty, especially while Wade is getting acclimated.

 

If Wade falters, you could also try Cave. And if both of them fail, you can always fall back to Grossman/LaMarre.

[TheLeviathan]

This team needed to sign Gomez, not LoMo. Said it at the time too.

[John Kelsey]

 

This team needed to sign Gomez, not LoMo. Said it at the time too.

 

He has a worse OPS than Morrison. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

He has a worse OPS than Morrison.

But with positive defense and baserunning, Gomez is about 0.3 bWAR ahead of Morrison. (Doesn't sound like much, but it would be a +1.5 WAR season pace.)

 

I didn't mind the effort to upgrade from Grossman at DH, though. But that needed to be paired with a willingness to find a 4th outfielder alternative, even just internally.

[Doctor Wu]

Grossman doesn't move the meter much either way for me. I don't dislike him, but I'm not a big fan either. At this point, I'd be willing to try Wade or someone with a good glove out there instead of Grossman. I don't think his bat and past OBP numbers are big enough factors to keep him around much longer. Plus, these recent Buxton setbacks are starting to worry me. Let's get some wheels out there!

[Rosterman]

I ask the same question. The Sox bring in a pitcher that averages umpteen walks PER INNING facing Grossman, the so-called walk king...and he doesn't draw a walk.

 

Is LaMarre the answer? He has a hot bat (be it single city) and deserves to play until he cools off. Like Petit, who wants the major league meal money over the minor league salary.

 

This is a musical chairs position. With Buxton down, you don't have to play the reserves. You can play an outfielder of the future (the chances of the Twins keeping Buxton / Rosario / Kepler beyond are nill) and you bring up LaMonte Wade. He can't be any worse than Grossman at this point. And might make you reconsider breaking camp with Robbie.

 

Which brings up Sano on the dl. You now have basically three utility guys manning two infield positions. Now was the time to look at Gordon and see if he could push Polanco out of a job, make Dozier more expendable, whatever. He may not rock in a two week callup, but he'd get a taste of the majors, and he is, afterall, the future. 

[Tomj14]

 

Anybody care to defend the Grossman/LaMarre arrangement today?
 

Why are we worried about LaMarre? he seems like the perfect 5th outfielder. He isn't a prospect so there is no pressure to get him in games, and when he does fill in, he has done fine.

As for Grossman, well should have gone out and got a capable outfielder in the off season, let many on this site said.
The front offense didn't put together a very balanced team and it is showing in the inability to work pitchers and play defense.

[bobs]

Grossman's defense never was good.  But now it has deteriorated to the point where his typically high OPS (though not so high through 27 games) can't balance it out.  May as well bring Granite back, let him fly around CF and get on base at a .280-.300 clip and then use his speed.

[John Kelsey]

All the folks mentioning Granite in this thread realize he is hurt right now, right?

 

I imagine he'd be up right now if he wasn't. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Why are we worried about LaMarre? he seems like the perfect 5th outfielder. He isn't a prospect so there is no pressure to get him in games, and when he does fill in, he has done fine.

 

Well, right now, LaMarre is the 4th outfielder, and he is the only person on the roster that can keep a glove out of Grossman's hands. And he's apparently not good enough to do that very much.

 

In some other context, I am sure LaMarre could be fine (although the roster might be better off with 4 competent outfielders and skipping the 5th one). But in tandem with Grossman, as our 3rd/4th outfielders? Not so much.

 

I'd like to see Wade replace LaMarre right now, and actually start over Grossman, and let Robbie stick to pinch hitting and emergency OF duty. If Wade or Cave doesn't work out, you could always go back to the Grossman/LaMarre tag team. But we should be using the opportunity presented by Buxton's injury (and Granite's) to explore alternatives.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Grossman is a guy I don’t mind having on the bench with the occasional spot start.

 

He’s badly exposed as a starter and should not be used as such.

 

Go get a real outfielder.

[Mike Sixel]

Now is a perfect time to see what Wade might be. Right now. Tonight. In Chicago.

[jkcarew]

 

All the folks mentioning Granite in this thread realize he is hurt right now, right?

 

I imagine he'd be up right now if he wasn't. 

And was really, really horrible in camp and early at Rochester before he went down.  Maybe he was injured all along.

 

Grossman is what he is.  It wasn't the Twins plan to play him every day when one of the big three went down.  That role was going to be Granite's role.  (That plan was open to criticism, IMO.)  Could the FO have found someone for the right-handed bench bat role that would look better under the glare of every-day play than Grossman?  Realistically...maybe.  Now they're in the position of standing on one leg waiting for Buxton to come back...or bringing up a AAAA player from Rochester, or Wade directly from AA...who is yet another left-handed bat.  Sometimes, when it rains, it pours. 

[Tomj14]

 

Grossman is a guy I don’t mind having on the bench with the occasional spot start.

He’s badly exposed as a starter and should not be used as such.

Go get a real outfielder.

IMO, the role Grossman is suppose to be playing is 4th outfielder, part-time DH and pinch hitter.  If he can't fill that role (which it seems he can't) he needs to go and get somebody here that can. (I think giving Wade a chance is a great idea).

The 5th outfielder role is supposed to be a guy you put in to run, pinch hitter, and play very seldom.

[ashbury]

IMO, the role Grossman is suppose to be playing is 4th outfielder, part-time DH and pinch hitter.

I think you have him pegged about correctly.

 

That's not a profile around which you build a team. Now and then, when I see a guy like that having a long tenure with a team, it causes me to wonder about what kind of compromises got made in the roster construction process, for that to happen.

 

Loyalty to players is good, and sometimes gets rewarded, but all in all a guy like Robbie Grossman is pretty easily replaceable, if by bad luck the guy you try in his place fizzles out. Remember how we obtained Grossman in the first place, after all.

[birddog]

I like the idea of Wade coming up to play every day until Buxton is back. LaMarre didn't really get a fair shot for some reason and Grossman is Sano in the outfield. If I were the Twins I would have Gordon getting some OF reps in AA. Twins need a spark, but I think it has to come from a position player(s) as Romero's great start didn't light anyone else on fire. Our pitching has not been good but the hitting is not picking anyone up or allowing any confidence to the pitchers.

 

We couldn't right the ship against the Rays or the Reds. If Twins don't act quickly and we can't win a series against the Chisox, we will very soon be writing off this season.

[USAFChief]

This team needed to sign Gomez, not LoMo. Said it at the time too.

Both.

[jun]

Grossman needs to be let go as soon as Buxton comes back. LaMarre or Wade can be the 4th outfielder for now.

[old nurse]

 

This team needed to sign Gomez, not LoMo. Said it at the time too.

Gomez's season has  been about as good as Grossman's  You do not see much of Gomez's play

 

[wsnydes]

 

Gomez's season has  been about as good as Grossman's  You do not see much of Gomez's play

Except Gomez can play defense...

[Mike Sixel]

Gomez's season has been about as good as Grossman's You do not see much of Gomez's play

Defense.... And running... Not just hitting.

[USAFChief]

Gomez's season has been about as good as Grossman's You do not see much of Gomez's play

I’ll take Gomez’ season to date, and definitely his season going forward.

 

For one thing, he doesn’t derive all his value from walks. He could be playing CF right now, without a lot of defensive drop off, for one thing, with the added benefit of Kepler still in RF.

 

BTW, have you seen much of Grossman’s play.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Both.

 

Well, just being realistic.  They could've signed another outfielder too, earlier in the offseason.

 

But after we signed the pitchers it became apparent they were pushing money into the team and Gomez was a perfect fit for us.  Plus, I think the locker room could use a little bit of a spitfire personality too.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think you have him pegged about correctly.

 

That's not a profile around which you build a team. Now and then, when I see a guy like that having a long tenure with a team, it causes me to wonder about what kind of compromises got made in the roster construction process, for that to happen.

 

Loyalty to players is good, and sometimes gets rewarded, but all in all a guy like Robbie Grossman is pretty easily replaceable, if by bad luck the guy you try in his place fizzles out. Remember how we obtained Grossman in the first place, after all.

 

This is not to defend the awful defense he's been playing....but good teams can have a guy like Grossman on the bench.  He's been a solid offensive contributor for a bench player.

 

The problem is that whatever defense he had has eroded as a Twin (this guy used to play CF in minor league ball!) and now he can't even provide a decent bat off the bench.  He should be platooning with LoMo and giving spot starts, which is a fine role for him.  Not this though.