Article: CHW 6, MIN 5: Twins Blow 5-1 Lead

[Tom Froemming]

Robbie Grossman since 6/14/2017

326 PAs

.217/.309/.335

.644 OPS

 

Just for some perspective ...

 

Jason Castro since 6/14/2017

303 PAs

.223/.315/.341

.655 OPS

[Otto von Ballpark]

Robbie Grossman since 6/14/2017

326 PAs

.217/.309/.335

.644 OPS

 

Just for some perspective ...

 

Jason Castro since 6/14/2017

303 PAs

.223/.315/.341

.655 OPS

Hmmm... put Grossman behind the plate, you say?

[Tom Froemming]

 

Hmmm... put Grossman behind the plate, you say?

Yep. Waaaaaaay behind the plate. Past the seats, past the concourse and right out onto 7th St.

[Puckett34]

 

Yep. Waaaaaaay behind the plate. Past the seats, past the concourse and right out onto 7th St.

Maybe give him a ticket for the light rail so he can head to the MSP airport.   But he'd probably take a weird route on a routine trip and drop the ticket in the process.

[wsnydes]

 

Maybe give him a ticket for the light rail so he can head to the MSP airport.   But he'd probably take a weird route on a routine trip and drop the ticket in the process.

It's not too far fetched to believe that the wind would blow the ticket a bit and he'd have to try to step on it multiple times, narrowly missing each time until he finally steps on it only to be seconds too late to catch the train.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It's not too far fetched to believe that the wind would blow the ticket a bit and he'd have to try to step on it multiple times, narrowly missing each time until he finally steps on it only to be seconds too late to catch the train.

I'd be worried about him falling into the path of the train. Better just get an Uber.

[gocgo]

I tuned in when it was 5-1.  Saw Palka hit the dinger and knew we were in trouble.  Looked at the score this morning and realized that I am a better and much happier man when I don't watch the Twins.  They say ignorance is bliss and I'm pretty blissful when I don't watch the Twins lately.

 

I know it's only the beginning of May, but this is really starting to feel like a lost season. 

 

If the Twins scratch their way back up to .500, I'll start tuning in again.  Before the season, I questioned why Grossman would be kept on the team.  We have a DH, we have guys that can run, there were other options for the OF that were much better.  When they kept him, I scratched my head and figured he wouldn't see much time on the field, but might take some quality AB's.  Those quality AB's have added up to a .185 average with a .554 OPS.  Numbers don't lie and when you aren't adding value to the team either offensively or defensively....just sayin'.

[ashbury]

Odorizzi has shown a consistent pattern of blowing up when he faces the lineup for the 3rd time.

 

Mollie let Jake face the White Sox lineup for the 3rd time.

The Zen that can be written or spoken is not the true Zen. The starter that can not go through an opposing lineup a third time is not a starter.

 

Maybe that's your position on Odorizzi and he should be removed from the rotation. If so, then we need another guy who can go the necessary distance, or the bullpen will quickly be burned to a crisp.

[ashbury]

If the Twins scratch their way back up to .500, I'll start tuning in again. 

If that happens, you'll have missed a stretch of pretty good baseball.

[bighat]

 

 

 

Also agree that Robbie has to go.  He's a nice pinch hitter for an NL team.  A 4th outfielder has to play defense over hitting.  And hitting he isn't either anyway.

 

I said this exact same thing about Grossman during Spring Training. He's a great luxury to have if you're an NL team looking for a pinch hitter.

 

At this point, the Twins are far enough back that they're going to play Grossman as much as possible to maximize his value. They're going to want prospects back when we trade him in July, and the more ABs he has the better prospects we'll get from the Nationals, Cubs, Diamondbacks, etc.

 

The Twins aren't in "win now" mode. They're also not in "rebuilding" mode. What kind of purgatory have we found ourselves in?

 

When does Buxton come back? His injuries at this point are defining his career. It's so frustrating.

[USAFChief]

These are valid points, but I think Molitor saw this as an opportunity to squeeze a little more out of his starter to try and take some pressure off the pen.

 

And how’d that work out?

 

The problem with “getting more from your starter” is that it usually doesn’t work. You end up going to the pen anyway—witness last night—only now it’s after the damage has been done.

 

And of course Grossman is a problem...but he’s completely unrelated to Molitor’s decision to send an obviously wobbling Odorizzi back out there.

[ashbury]

Hmmm... put Grossman behind the plate, you say?

Yep. Waaaaaaay behind the plate. Past the seats, past the concourse and right out onto 7th St.

They'll be here all week, folks. Remember to tip your server.

[USAFChief]

I said this exact same thing about Grossman during Spring Training. He's a great luxury to have if you're an NL team looking for a pinch hitter.

 

At this point, the Twins are far enough back that they're going to play Grossman as much as possible to maximize his value. They're going to want prospects back when we trade him in July, and the more ABs he has the better prospects we'll get from the Nationals, Cubs, Diamondbacks, etc.

 

The Twins aren't in "win now" mode. They're also not in "rebuilding" mode. What kind of purgatory have we found ourselves in?

 

When does Buxton come back? His injuries at this point are defining his career. It's so frustrating.

Nobody is trading anything for Robbie Grossman.

[David HK]

 

With these relievers blowing leads, the Twins could really use a fresh arm in the Pen. Oh, I see where Hughes has thrown ZERO pitches in the last 5 days, he really must be fresh. Hmm, oh that's right, he's only to be used in mop up or blow out duties. Wait, haven't the Twins lost 11 or so of last 13 games. Why, with all those losses, seems to me his arm should be falling off by now. But, wait, he's thrown only ZERO pitches. Boy, I'm really confused. This baseball stuff is really complicated.

It does seem to be for a certain manager of a certain upper-Midwest team...

[David HK]

 

And how’d that work out?

The problem with “getting more from your starter” is that it usually doesn’t work. You end up going to the pen anyway—witness last night—only now it’s after the damage has been done.

And of course Grossman is a problem...but he’s completely unrelated to Molitor’s decision to send an obviously wobbling Odorizzi back out there.

He did, however, do an excellent job of compounding the problem.

[laloesch]

 

STOP PLAYING GROSSMAN IN THE FIELD!!!!!!!!

 

What the hell is the matter with Molitor?!?

 

We all knew this two years ago.

 

yeah I can't understand how a manager who stresses fundamentals (supposedly) keeps marching Robbie out there.  It's time for Wade, Falvey and Levine please call him up and part ways with Grossman.

[Tom Froemming]

 

And how’d that work out?

The problem with “getting more from your starter” is that it usually doesn’t work. You end up going to the pen anyway—witness last night—only now it’s after the damage has been done.

And of course Grossman is a problem...but he’s completely unrelated to Molitor’s decision to send an obviously wobbling Odorizzi back out there.

It didn't work out, but it was because of Grossman.

 

If that's Max Kepler out in right field and he makes the catch, or at the very least prevents Abreu from scoring from first base, things probably would've worked out just fine. Davidson was going to be the last batter Odorizzi was going to face anyway.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I agree, however taking your best starter (even on an off day) after 60 pitches simply exposes the worst part of the staff.  

 

I agree that it's pretty much a lose-lose scenario and the problems are far beyond Molitor's managing.  He does contribute to those problems though.

 

Absolutely, the room is already a mess but Molly didn't have to throw his dirty clothes in the pile.

 

But...the mess was there either way.

[FormerMinnasotan]

To start with our bullpen is useless. We might as well trot out Hughes and see if he has any value on this team even if it’s for an inning or 2. Here I thought with the addition of Addison Reed that we’ll actually have a legit arm in the bullpen, turns out he’s as much of a choke artist as Rodney has been thus far (to be fair Rodney has started pitching better lately). And all our minor league arms up to this point have seemingly turned in to AAAA arms (see Duffey and John Curtiss) not good enough to help us here, yet they have it all figured out in Rochester. If we could fix that to begin that’ll be huge.

[joefish]

The T'ins are 3-13 since the Circus in Puerto Rico.

I believe we have picked up a virus. Or will it turn out to be a curse?

[joefish]

And just why did Rosario keep on his catch? I was glad he caught it, for sure. But I don't think the jump was needed. Did he?

[joefish]

Why did he leap? Not keep.

[USAFChief]

It didn't work out, but it was because of Grossman.

 

If that's Max Kepler out in right field and he makes the catch, or at the very least prevents Abreu from scoring from first base, things probably would've worked out just fine. Davidson was going to be the last batter Odorizzi was going to face anyway.

Grossman compounded the problem by making an error after the ball hit off the wall, but Grossman wasn’t the primary problem. I’m not at all sure Kepler catches that, by the way....but in any case Kepler WASNT out in RF, which was known to Molitor and if anything should be a reason FOR a new pitcher less likely to be penalized by Grossman, not an excuse for leaving Odorizzi in.

 

Grossman hadn’t given up the HR to Palka previously, didn’t walk the lead off hitter on five pitches not close, and didn’t give up the rocket that got over Grossman’s head. Odorizzi was out of gas, no longer making quality pitches. This has been a continuing issue for Molitor, IMO. He is very prone to pulling his starter only AFTER damage has been done.

[SheboyganBrats]

 

There is nothing left to say other than the cliches, "It's a long season" or "We'll get 'em tomorrow" or "The breaks will start falling our way", etc.

When it rains, it pours.

[gocgo]

 

If that happens, you'll have missed a stretch of pretty good baseball.

I'll be watching from afar...kind of like being on the rooftops watching the Cubs with a cold beer.  After all, we are playing like the Cubs of old.  Gladden sounds more like Harry Caray every day!

[mikelink45]

Can Seth Stohs give the team some advice on the minor leaguers who can catch, run, and throw?  I do not care about the bat right now.  The OF defense is terrible.

Is Dozier thinking about his next contract?  He should be lighting things up for a big pay day.

Since they do not want my advice and bring up Gordon - then bring up Lewis. I do not care how young he is.  Get some enthusiasm on this team.

[jtkoupal]

 

The Zen that can be written or spoken is not the true Zen. The starter that can not go through an opposing lineup a third time is not a starter.

 

Maybe that's your position on Odorizzi and he should be removed from the rotation. If so, then we need another guy who can go the necessary distance, or the bullpen will quickly be burned to a crisp.

It has to come down to execution. Jake's career splits speak for themselves. 

 

Time     OBP/OPS/tOPS+

1st        .283/.656/85

2nd       .297/.714/100

3rd        .327/.800/123

*where tOPS+ is a measure of the OPS allowed relative to overall OPS allowed.

 

The spike in those numbers is staggering. However, the bullpen argument is a legitimate one that cannot be ignored either.

 

The manager has to know when his pitcher is executing his pitches and when he is not. In this case, Jake had not been executing flawlessly the previous several innings and had been allowing runs. In this instance, ignoring the result, the correct decision was still to pull him.

 

In his last start, against the Reds, he was executing his pitches much better. Seeing him face the lineup for a 3rd time made me uneasy that day, but it was not a bad decision, results aside, to let him keep pitching.

 

It all has to come down to the process. Especially with a guy whose numbers the third time through the order are significantly worse.

[ashbury]

It all has to come down to the process. Especially with a guy whose numbers the third time through the order are significantly worse.

That's a much more nuanced analysis than what I previously took to be "third time through is coming, take him out".

[bighat]

 

Nobody is trading anything for Robbie Grossman.

Good point. Touche.