Twins option Ryan LaMarre to AAA

[Mike Sixel]

It's reasonable to want to see Hughes.....I think it is also reasonable to not to want to. I guess we'll find out soonish...

[USAFChief]

 

At that point, doesn't he stop being the 25th man? 

 

A 25th man provides:

• Pinch running late in game
• Pinch hitting pop for late in a game
• Occasional start in getaway game
• Defensive replacement

The Twins don't need a defensive replacement in the OF. Lamarre doesn't have the pop but he's not bad for pinch running or the occasional start in a getaway game. 

 

I've seen people get worked up about Danny Santana or Florimon for years. Never makes much sense - the 25th man doesn't really matter. What matters more is the guy waiting in AAA who comes up if someone is actually hurt. That's Granite/Wade in the OF, Gordon in the IF and Who-Knows-What at C.

 

I think a fairer criticism might be Grossman. He had a great 2016 and an okay 2017 but has started slow this year. Small sample but if he's more 2017 than 2016 by mid-June, the Twins might have to think about hitting the trade market for a better 4th RH hitting 4th OF. That's not a big problem - guys like that never cost much and are usually veterans who can bolster the clubhouse.

I don't agree that the "25th guy" is only there to provide pinch hitting/pinch running, and a useless place holder for getaway day games.

 

For one thing, teams only carry 12 or 13 players, so the term "25th guy" isn't even really that accurate. Smart GMs squeeze as much value as possible out of each of those 12 or 13 guys.

 

 A dangerous RH hitter, who could spell the corner OFers and occasionally DH against a LH starter, would provide much, much more on field help than someone who only pinch hits/pinch runs. And there's no reason a good bat couldn't do both of those things, too.

 

It's a long season. Squeezing a little extra talent onto the roster will pay off. 

[ThejacKmp]

 

I don't agree that the "25th guy" is only there to provide pinch hitting/pinch running, and a useless place holder for getaway day games.

 

For one thing, teams only carry 12 or 13 players, so the term "25th guy" isn't even really that accurate. Smart GMs squeeze as much value as possible out of each of those 12 or 13 guys.

 

 A dangerous RH hitter, who could spell the corner OFers and occasionally DH against a LH starter, would provide much, much more on field help than someone who only pinch hits/pinch runs. And there's no reason a good bat couldn't do both of those things, too.

 

It's a long season. Squeezing a little extra talent onto the roster will pay off. 

 

Yeah, that would be nice. Two ways to get that in April:

 

1) From within. The Twins don't have this player. And even if you did, it'd have to hit a pretty narrow range. You need someone who wouldn't benefit from regular playing time in the minors but who doesn't provide so much value that you're wasting them in the majors and should think about trading them. Easier said than done and we can just magic that player into being. If Granite hit RH he might be an approximation of this (minus the pop). 

 

2) Free agent. Youngish power-hitting free agent outfielders don't sign on to become 4th OFers, they look for a starting job or a place with a platoon (like Carols Gomez signing for $4 million in Tampa). So you're not getting someone with upside. You're going to get someone older on the downswing. And you're going to have to pay a decent amount because those guys have made money and they aren't coming back for the minimum. And if you get an old guy you likely sacrifice your speed/base running. An example might have been Jose Bautista but you'd have to pay him at least $5 million and you run the risk of him sucking. 

 

That's why you end up with the Lamarre types. And sometimes they work out. See Grossman, Robbie in 2016. Sometimes they don't but they didn't cost you much. And that leads you to the time to upgrade this spot . . .

 

the deadline. By midseason, struggling teams are looking to deal their veteran power bats to save money, free up space for their young prospects and maybe get a lottery ticket in the process. And players who would not have signed on to be a 4th OF in the offseason are okay moving to a team with playoff hopes. 

 

I get being upset if Lamarre is hitting poorly and is still the Twins 25th guy in August or October. But in April, he's as good a bet as anybody, especially with that option that allows you to have some flexibility. 

 

I look at this (http://www.espn.com/mlb/freeagents/_/position/of) and I don't see anyone I'm sad the Twins missed out on. Thoughts? Is there someone you think the Twins could and should have signed this offseason?

[ThejacKmp]

 

I don't agree that the "25th guy" is only there to provide pinch hitting/pinch running, and a useless place holder for getaway day games.

 

For one thing, teams only carry 12 or 13 players, so the term "25th guy" isn't even really that accurate. Smart GMs squeeze as much value as possible out of each of those 12 or 13 guys.

 

 A dangerous RH hitter, who could spell the corner OFers and occasionally DH against a LH starter, would provide much, much more on field help than someone who only pinch hits/pinch runs. And there's no reason a good bat couldn't do both of those things, too.

 

It's a long season. Squeezing a little extra talent onto the roster will pay off. 

 

Also, this would totally be a different question for an NL team. With pitchers hitting and double switches, the 25th man is super important. If the Twins were in the NL, you'd certainly see Granite or maybe even Gordon on the team. They'd get enough at bats to justify having them on the squad. Ryan Lamarre wouldn't stand a chance. Adrianza would be more valuable because he can play corner OF as well as IF.

[ThejacKmp]

 

while glossing over his entire career and the fact that he's also struck out 4 times this year.

 

I mean, his BABIP is 1.000. He literally never makes contact and doesn't get a hit.

[yarnivek1972]

No problem with the Lamarre moves. Makes sense to get an extra pitcher for the Puerto Rico series and Lamarre is the obvious candidate to do it. That's what being the 25th guy on the roster is about.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Buesnitz/Moya when Lamarre is done with his ten days and can come back. I wouldn't be surprised to see Moya head down and Buesnitz stay. The Twins could use some depth with Hildy and Duke being a little erratic. Allows Molitor to have a quick pull with them.

 

Not going to judge this till we see who's on the team in NYC.

Sooner or later the weather will improve. June is the latest forecast.

 

Anyway, the Twins will need a 5th starter eventually. I certainly hope the Twins don’t intend to carry 13 pitchers all year just on the slim chance Kinley pans out. The reward isn’t worth the risk of burning out the bullpen.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I'd agree this is on the front office...Many of us called all winter for the front office to find a RH hitting 4th OFer.

 

But I don't think Ryan LaMarre is that guy. He's never hit, anywhere. ANYwhere. Personally I'm glad the manager seems to understand a handful of ABs doesn't negate years of history. 

I was on that train this winter. I wasn't a big fan of LaMarre making the team out of ST either, but the FO stuck him there. 

 

For me at least it isn't so much about believing LaMarre is a legitimate 4th/5th OFer, rather it's about giving him the opportunity to prove he isn't. They were willing to force him onto the 25 man because of the ST he had and if that's the case then they might as well at least try to figure out what he can actually do. I'm not saying he needs to be playing every day, but if they were confident enough to give him a roster spot I'm not sure why there's hesitation to let him have a short audition. 

 

Overall I completely agree with you that the 25th man shouldn't be a pinch runner/filler guy. You're right, the Twins will only carry 12-13 position players, two of which are catchers so in reality they're looking at 2-3 actual bench players. They need to be more than an occasional pinch hitter/runner or late inning defensive replacement. I don't think LaMarre is one of the 2-3 guys, but I also think continuing to carry him while refusing to play him is worse than finding out he isn't. 

[Jham]

He had a league average ERA his rookie year.

If he can learn how to go longer in games, he can easily be a #3 (league average, by definition), without much improvement.

 

Mejia has both a higher floor and a higher ceiling than Jorge, IMO, not sure why he's even in the conversation for guys ahead of Mejia.

A number 3 isn't league average by definition. Twins started what 16 different pitchers last year? The majority of starting pitchers are bottom of the rotation, depth or swing man types, imo. Any pitcher that holds down a consistent rotation turn as a 3 is probably better than league average. Not saying Mejia can't get there, but he's got work to do with men on and past 2x through the order.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Sooner or later the weather will improve. June is the latest forecast.

Anyway, the Twins will need a 5th starter eventually. I certainly hope the Twins don’t intend to carry 13 pitchers all year just on the slim chance Kinley pans out. The reward isn’t worth the risk of burning out the bullpen.

 

You can carry Kinley. You just can't carry Kinley and Moya if you're afraid to use either one. Kinley can be a long-relief/14th inning guy. But Molly either needs to start trusting Moya or find someone else (Buesnitz, Duffey etc.) who he does trust.

 

I'd love to see what Curtiss can do too.

[ashbury]

I mean, his BABIP is 1.000. He literally never makes contact and doesn't get a hit.

This season. Pfft.

 

For a career, if I used b-r.com's Play Index feature correctly, a current pitcher named Jesse Chavez holds the record for plate appearances while maintaining a pure 1.000 BABIP. Unsurprisingly, his 20 PA have been accounted for via 1 base hit, 4 sacrifice bunts (which do not count in BABIP despite being technically "in play"), and 15 strikeouts.

 

When you think about it a second, an NL-style relief pitcher stands out as the right candidate, and Chavez's only starts have been in the AL.

 

He's 34 now. Here's hoping Jesse doesn't spoil things by grounding out a nubber to the first baseman to close his career.

 

You want a position player? Try third baseman Fred Graf. In his one season with the Browns in 1913, he OPS'ed 1.225 and his BABIP the whole season was 1.000. Only 9 PA, but hey. He holds the career record.

[ThejacKmp]

 

This season. Pfft.

 

For a career, if I used b-r.com's Play Index feature correctly, a current pitcher named Jesse Chavez holds the record for plate appearances while maintaining a pure 1.000 BABIP. Unsurprisingly, his 20 PA have been accounted for via 1 base hit, 4 sacrifice bunts (which do not count in BABIP despite being technically "in play"), and 15 strikeouts. When you think about it a second, an NL-style relief pitcher stands out as the right candidate, and Chavez's only starts have been in the AL.

 

Here's hoping Jesse doesn't spoil things by grounding out a nubber to the first baseman to close his career.

 

I wonder if that one base hit was a sacrifice bunt attempt where he reached base.

 

EDIT: I went and looked it up. Not a bunt, a line drive single to RF to lead off an inning. 

 

EDIT #2: He then got thrown out trying to go first to third on another single.

 

EDIT #3: There's a video of the baserunning miscue. Oh man, it's not good. Double down the first base line and Chavez forgets to touch second base. He goes back to touch it, realizes the other guy is chugging into second and breaks back for third where he is easily tagged out. Instead of second and third no one out in a tie game, it's one out with a guy on second and the A's don't score. 

 

https://www.mlb.com/video/tomas-throws-out-chavez/c-430918883?tid=6479266

 

And here's the hit, very nicely stroked.

 

https://www.mlb.com/video/chavezs-first-career-hit/c-430915483?tid=6479266 

[yarnivek1972]

5 pages on essentially a non-move involving a career journeyman AAA outfielder. Granted, not all of this has been strictly about La Marre.

 

Guess that is the result of a weekend of no baseball.

 

So, if I am putting this all together correctly, La Marre was sent down to bring up Busenitz because Reed isn’t the only bullpen guy under the weather (of course, after this weekend we are all sick of the weather). Further, La Marre will be back in PR for two games and then go back to AAA for (at least) another 4 or 5 days. Unless there are a whole bunch of relievers still sick, 9 relievers for 2 games seems like way too many when literally no one has pitched since Thursday. Indeed, Saturday’s scheduled starter Kyle Gibson should be available in the pen Tuesday. By the time his next start comes, he will be on 10 days rest, if my math is right. He might benefit from throwing 15-25 live game pitches tomorrow actually.

[ashbury]

EDIT: I went and looked it up. Not a bunt, a line drive single to RF to lead off an inning.

Step in the bucket, collect your prize: an opposite field single!

 

EDIT #3: There's a video of the baserunning miscue. Oh man, it's not good. Double down the first base line and Chavez forgets to touch second base. He goes back to touch it, realizes the other guy is chugging into second and breaks back for third where he is easily tagged out. Instead of second and third no one out in a tie game, it's one out with a guy on second and the A's don't score.

Thanks for the laugh-out-loud quality LOL-worthy video. I chuckled audibly.

 

Twins Daily: come for the 1.000 LaMarre BABIP. Stay for the pitcher-running-the-bases follies.

[Twins33]

Talking about something is literally NOT equivalent to getting worked up about it, or angsting about it, or freaking out about it......

 

I'm constantly amazed on this site, when people have a conversation about something, that so many people think there are HUGE emotions tied up in something, when really, there aren't for most of us (as far as I can tell). It's just a conversation.

I would like to like this 694 times.

[Riverbrian]

 

Talking about something is literally NOT equivalent to getting worked up about it, or angsting about it, or freaking out about it......

 

I'm constantly amazed on this site, when people have a conversation about something, that so many people think there are HUGE emotions tied up in something, when really, there aren't for most of us (as far as I can tell). It's just a conversation.

 

It is absolutely possible to have a conversation without getting worked up over the subject. 

 

Unless my wife is letting me know that I left a towel on the bathroom floor. 

[Riverbrian]

 

At that point, doesn't he stop being the 25th man? 

 

 

 

 

That is exactly what I dream about. 

 

 

[bighat]

Interesting discussion here regarding whether or not LaMarre deserves the 25th spot, why he made the team, etc. I like the chatter, good points.

 

I personally think that the FO gave LaMarre the starting job to boost team morale. Forget the fans and statisticians for a minute. Ballplayers like to see good play rewarded. To a man, every single guy on the Twins will say LaMarre earned that spot by crushing the ball in ST and he won that 25th spot fair and square. I think it's sending a message as well: you play well, we'll give you a chance. I think that also helps the Twins' overall reputation in the league.

 

Now LaMarre is already being moved around like a chess piece and probably will be up and down a few more times. I reckon at some point he'll be spending much more time in Rochester than in the Twin Cities. But I think the Twins clubhouse felt positively about LaMarre making the team. Maybe the FO was trying to make up for BH Park's demotion last year, or trying to protect their reputation. Either way I think that the other 24 guys in the Twins' clubhouse thought LaMarre earned that spot. Management was showing solidarity with those guys by bringing him to the Twin Cities.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I'd assume that if they planned on doing it anyway, they probably save a couple thousand dollars by doing it now.

Not sure if this happens often in baseball, with no salary cap, but you see it often in the NHL, as the cap is calculated daily.

Yeah maybe, I have no idea how common this situation is in baseball. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

With Buck scratched due to migraine it’d be nice to have LaMarres glove...

[Mr. Brooks]

With Buck scratched due to migraine it’d be nice to have LaMarres glove...

LaMarre is on the roster for the PR series.

[Riverbrian]

PLAY HIM!

 

Until he cools off

 

He's looking Molly in the eye right now and saying I'd like to stay in the majors. 

 

Let's see if he can. 

 

[amjgt]

At some point the sample size gets semi-large enough that you say “well heck... why not?”

[DJSim22]

Best story so far in 2018, I'm enjoying it.

 

Leave it to my 17 year old to say it's that the old guy who made the team. lol

[howieramone2]

 

Interesting discussion here regarding whether or not LaMarre deserves the 25th spot, why he made the team, etc. I like the chatter, good points.

 

I personally think that the FO gave LaMarre the starting job to boost team morale. Forget the fans and statisticians for a minute. Ballplayers like to see good play rewarded. To a man, every single guy on the Twins will say LaMarre earned that spot by crushing the ball in ST and he won that 25th spot fair and square. I think it's sending a message as well: you play well, we'll give you a chance. I think that also helps the Twins' overall reputation in the league.

 

Now LaMarre is already being moved around like a chess piece and probably will be up and down a few more times. I reckon at some point he'll be spending much more time in Rochester than in the Twin Cities. But I think the Twins clubhouse felt positively about LaMarre making the team. Maybe the FO was trying to make up for BH Park's demotion last year, or trying to protect their reputation. Either way I think that the other 24 guys in the Twins' clubhouse thought LaMarre earned that spot. Management was showing solidarity with those guys by bringing him to the Twin Cities.

I bet they are just trying to win.

[yarnivek1972]

His story reminds me of Glenn Williams.

 

He got a cup of coffee in 2005. Appeared in 13 games. Got at least one hit in 13 games.

 

Still don’t understand how the guy never got another MLB AB. How do you not ride that streak for as long as it lasts?

 

Even if it ended in the first game of 2006, at least they found out. As it is, he’s the answer to an obscure trivia question for the most games played in MLB with a hit in every game played (if that phraseology makes sense).

 

Just like LaMarre’s 1.000 BABIP. How do you look the guy in the eye and tell him he’s not playing as long as he has that streak going?