Article: MIN 7, PIT 3: Rosario Sparks Comeback, Inspires Some Head-Scratching

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

He knows he did wrong. You see him in the dugout afterwards hitting himself in the head as if you say, 'You goofed.' Let's hope he doesn't do that again. It was not good. I actually think that's worse than the pick-off.

 

I'm not sure how the pickoff even comes into play here. That stuff will happen, and a pitcher can fool a runner. Not saying it isn't heads up and cannot be corrected, but to me at least, that's a tradeoff for having someone who will be an aggressive base runner. 

 

As for not running out the pop up... yeah, no excuse. At the very least he should have been moving down the line. Even at a jog, he's safe or potentially forces an error. 

[dbminn]

Twins won. Bullpen pitched great. Brian Dozier showed both power and his elite base running skills (considering his foot speed). Sano had more hits than Ks. Rosario had an adventure (great lede, Tom).  I'll take it. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Yeah, I think my point would be that we fixate on Eddie and not on mistakes made by other players (Dozier, Kepler etc.)

 

I think there's a reason for that - confirmation bias (kind of like how when a young football player fumbles a few time, now everyone fixates on him fumbling and then defensive players go for the fumble more often because of that rep) and a bit of a racial bias (which I guess we need to take to the Sports Bar, whatever that is).

No, I get what you're saying but again, Eddie has earned the reputation that he has. I don't think anybody has trouble criticizing Dozier, Mauer, Kepler, ect. for questionable decisions on the field. The point I made was that Eddie makes those questionable decisions much more frequently, and so of course he's going to receive a disproportionate amount of criticism for doing so. IMO it starts and stops there. 

 

I can live with physical errors. Bad routes on fly balls and wild throws are going to happen from time to time. It's the mental mistakes that drive me nuts. Eddie has all the talent in the world but at times he's just so unaware of situations. He has played enough ball to this point where the mental errors are inexcusable.

[Squirrel]

 

I'm not sure how the pickoff even comes into play here. That stuff will happen, and a pitcher can fool a runner. Not saying it isn't heads up and cannot be corrected, but to me at least, that's a tradeoff for having someone who will be an aggressive base runner. 

 

As for not running out the pop up... yeah, no excuse. At the very least he should have been moving down the line. Even at a jog, he's safe or potentially forces an error. 

Yeah ... that's why I think the pop-up was a thing and I was less forgiving of the pick-off ... which ended up not being one, whether right or wrong.

[USAFChief]

On a positive note, Hildenberger looked a little better than he has, IMO.

 

I'm nervous about him, but that was encouraging.

[Kelly Vance]

As a former coach (and third base coach) I offer these observations. 

Eddie is not dissed because of his skin color. His skin color has nothing to do with 27 homers and all those throw outs in his rookie year. He is still a raw talent. He is not afraid to throw the runner out at the plate, and we love that. But he is an instinctive player, and those guys make mistakes. Still in all, I want that kind of guy on my team. 

 

Miggie runs through a stop sign. (Nobody suggests that he did that because he was black. Or did they and I missed it?)  He has up a head of steam, and went with his instinct. I like the desire and hustle. If I'm coaching third, I am pissed he runs through. But when he is safe, nobody grins bigger than me. Then I tell him "Don't ever do that again." But my takeaway is I am glad that Miggie wants to win. 

[ThejacKmp]

 

That fly ball had a 90% catch probability.

 

I don't think it's charming at all, I rip every player when they slide into first. Continuing this line is starting to look like you are calling me out specifically. I probably rip players for sliding into first more than anyone else here. It's not charming at all, nor have I ever read a single person say it was. 

 

"swings at bad pitches?" nice straw man.

 

Are you quoting a stat or is that a fact? I find it hard to believe that any ball hit 20 feet over someone's head to the fence has a 90% catch rate. Do I think he should have caught it? Yes, mostly because I think he's got above average range for left. But am I going to count it against him? No, that was a tough enough catch that missing it while crashing into the wall is okay.

 

I'm also saying that sliding into first is stupid no matter who does it, feet or face first. I'm just adding the context that Dozier has done that several times in the past as well and no one harps on that or brings it up when talking about Dozier.

 

Swing at bad pitches isn't directed at you, not everything is about you? Not everything is a one-on-one discussion. I see people complaining about Rosario's pitch selection on TD a lot, just adding that in. He swings at some bad pitches. So does every Twin not named Mauer. 

 

Not sure why you're taking this personally, I didn't even know who I was responding to.

[ThejacKmp]

 

No, I get what you're saying but again, Eddie has earned the reputation that he has. I don't think anybody has trouble criticizing Dozier, Mauer, Kepler, ect. for questionable decisions on the field. The point I made was that Eddie makes those questionable decisions much more frequently, and so of course he's going to receive a disproportionate amount of criticism for doing so. IMO it starts and stops there. 

 

I can live with physical errors. Bad routes on fly balls and wild throws are going to happen from time to time. It's the mental mistakes that drive me nuts. Eddie has all the talent in the world but at times he's just so unaware of situations. He has played enough ball to this point where the mental errors are inexcusable.

 

See and I think I would disagree that Eddie does this much more than other players. I think we just focus on it more because of a narrative we've built.

 

Buxton and Dozier are two players I would argue make equally bad decisions but don't get called out on it as much. Buxton's arm is great in theory but he makes some terrible throws home and to bases. Lots of overthrowing and three bounce throws. And terrible pitch selection and situational hitting. Dozier is a great team leader but he's another guy swinging for the fences in bad situations. Another guy who makes some bad decision on steal attempts (though admittedly, it's hard to tell what is him and what is the coaches) and who has issues with running out balls and making "fake hustle" plays.

 

P.S. Sano's base running is often terrible. He runs through signs way too often and we excuse it because it's funny that a big guy is running through signs. But we hold him to a different standard. And that's my overall point -- we have developed a narrative where every bad Rosario decision is magnified unfairly because it fits that narrative.

[Tom Froemming]

There's already been a really good "Race and Rosario" discussion going on in The Sports Bar, let's keep it over there. 

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/29199-race-and-rosario/

[jimmer]

Are you quoting a stat or is that a fact? I find it hard to believe that any ball hit 20 feet over someone's head to the fence has a 90% catch rate. Do I think he should have caught it? Yes, mostly because I think he's got above average range for left. But am I going to count it against him? No, that was a tough enough catch that missing it while crashing into the wall is okay.

 

statcast had it at a 90% catchable rate. I am guessing that is where his number came from. Edited April 6, 2018 by jimmer

[ThejacKmp]

 

statcast had it at a 90% catchable rate. I am guessing that is where his number came from.

 

Wow, I'm really surprised by that. That one doesn't seem like a 90% one to me but I guess I'm wrong.

[jimmer]

Wow, I'm really surprised by that. That one doesn't seem like a 90% one to me but I guess I'm wrong.

I only knew it cause I read an article on the MLB Twins site that discussed the game and they gave that info.

[laloesch]

 

As a former coach (and third base coach) I offer these observations. 

Eddie is not dissed because of his skin color. His skin color has nothing to do with 27 homers and all those throw outs in his rookie year. He is still a raw talent. He is not afraid to throw the runner out at the plate, and we love that. But he is an instinctive player, and those guys make mistakes. Still in all, I want that kind of guy on my team. 

 

Miggie runs through a stop sign. (Nobody suggests that he did that because he was black. Or did they and I missed it?)  He has up a head of steam, and went with his instinct. I like the desire and hustle. If I'm coaching third, I am pissed he runs through. But when he is safe, nobody grins bigger than me. Then I tell him "Don't ever do that again." But my takeaway is I am glad that Miggie wants to win. 

 

I also think it has nothing to do with race or anything silly like that.  Give him some time to polish his skills and everyone should be happy with the results.  I think with him the gaffs are so blatantly obvious that people see them and tee off on them more so then other players.  Everyone should just remember one thing, talent can't be taught you either have it or you don't and Rosario has it, he's just a little rough around the edges still.