Article: Ryan LaMarre Just Might Make Twins Opening Day Roster

[caninatl04]

How long would Granite have to be on the farm for the Twins to own another year of him? That is, postpone vesting by a year. Keep LaMarre until then?

[old nurse]

 

Why? He's a backup as long as the big three are here, and there are guys on his tail.

Granite's 2017 at AAA was a fluke and the .611 MLB ops was the real Granite. If that is the case you should want a better backup than Granite.  If he is a developing player  with a few things to work on, then he needs to be in AAA playing every day.  The guy on his tail is Wade. There are no other prospects  at AAA. Nor AA

 

[Mr. Brooks]

How long would Granite have to be on the farm for the Twins to own another year of him? That is, postpone vesting by a year. Keep LaMarre until then?

Granite isn't the kind of prospect that you worry about service time with.

[Mike Sixel]

Granite's 2017 at AAA was a fluke and the .611 MLB ops was the real Granite. If that is the case you should want a better backup than Granite. If he is a developing player with a few things to work on, then he needs to be in AAA playing every day. The guy on his tail is Wade. There are no other prospects at AAA. Nor AA

Wanting a better backup has nothing to do with him getting more AAA at bats, unless people think he is working on things and can become a legit starter here somehow. Otherwise he only holds value as a backup here, or in a trade somehow.

[jud6312]

 

Totally sustainable.... Not a small sample size at all compared to over seven years of earlier data....

 

Did you hear he tweaked his swing? Just wait until he's more comfortable with it ... I'd say .845 isn't out of reach.

[Dantes929]

 

I don’t know what your definition of bad hitter is, but he’s got a .719 career minor league OPS and hasn’t slugged .400 at A, AA, or AAA.

I don’t like Granite much, but I’ll take him over LaMarre..

.263 ave with a .340 OBP.   Or I can cherry pick and say the last time he had over 200 at bats was 2016 in AAA where he hit .303 with a .445 slugging.     I am not advocating for him as a regular.    I am not even advocating for him as a reserve.   Just I am ok with the Twins giving him a shot.   Its not like they are penciling Jason Bartlett to play center field.

[stringer bell]

The role to be filled is backup outfielder. I think defense is important, as well as the potential to get some PAs against left handed pitching. If the Twins needed a lefty swinger, I think Granite would be a lock, but with Kepler’s struggles vs. lefties last year and Grossman’s poor defense, giving LaMarre a shot makes some sense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

How long would Granite have to be on the farm for the Twins to own another year of him? That is, postpone vesting by a year. Keep LaMarre until then?

 I know the answer to this:

No one cares.

 

Really, that's the answer. It doesn't matter how much service time Granite does or does not have. At his peak, he's pretty much Ben Revere.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Still don't understand the infatuation with Grossman.  .255 with a dozen home runs and 60 RBI would be a MONSTER year for him.  Need to find a better option if you plan to go to the next level.

Getting on base is the new (but somehow now old) black.

 

Seriously, if you don't appreciate a professional backup with a .360+ OBP, I don't really know what to say.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

As others have mentioned, Grossman was thought of the same way Lamarre is right now and he's had two good seasons with the bat now. Did any of us expect a combined 115 wRC+ out of Grossman? Think that's an easy no. I wouldn't have even expected the 100 he put up last year, even though he was close one year with the Astros with less power and fewer walks. Maybe Lamarre can do the same, but with better defense?

Whoa whoa WHOA.

 

Grossman had a .770 OPS in the minors. Over his last three partial seasons, he had an OPS of:

 

.914

.703

.823

 

Ryan Lamarre, on the other hand. He had an OPS of .814 in 2016. That's swell.

 

His career MiLB OPS? .719. His highest OPS outside 2016? Well, he had a .767 in rookie ball in 2010.

[old nurse]

 

Wanting a better backup has nothing to do with him getting more AAA at bats, unless people think he is working on things and can become a legit starter here somehow. Otherwise he only holds value as a backup here, or in a trade somehow.

KATOH seems to like Granite  You can think his role whatever you want, other projection models say different things. If there is talent yet to be developed the fifth outfielder role will not do.

[The Wise One]

Doing pretty good if what there is to grouse about is the last position player

[Mike Sixel]

 

KATOH seems to like Granite  You can think his role whatever you want, other projection models say different things. If there is talent yet to be developed the fifth outfielder role will not do.

 

On this team he's a backup, or trade bait, or backup. Are we not supposed to have this conversation in context of the Twins? I am aware of KATOH thinks (and man we are going to miss seeing KATOH, sigh), but that's not in context of his value to the Twins.

 

 

[gagu]

 

Wanting a better backup has nothing to do with him getting more AAA at bats, unless people think he is working on things and can become a legit starter here somehow. Otherwise he only holds value as a backup here, or in a trade somehow.

Not sold if this makes sense, but Granite could be at least a medium/term starter if one of the three mainstays hit the DL.Maybe a regular dose of AAA at-bats over occasional ML appearance would keep him better ready to jump in as a starter for a week or two if needed. Maybe not. 

Questions I'd like input on: Is LaMarre near the same level defensively as Granite? I've seen just one game (last week vs NYY) from my very distant location. Granite was in center with LaMarre in left. Granite made a nice diving catch after a good break and a perfect route to the ball. Should have been a double; LaMarre got yet another hit in that game; Does LaMarre have a better arm than Granite? No information to go on other than 77 assists and 24 DP's in 5670 MiLB innings.Granite, 35 assists and 7 DP's in 3482 innings.

We do know that LaMarre bats righthanded and that the biggest OF issue at the moment among the starters is Kepler's weakness vs LHP. A point in his favor.

Another point is that LaMarre is on a roll. A SP roll, but also word of an improved swing in play.

While I've been enjoyed following LaMarre's SP stats from early on, and been touting him as the clear choice for the Sire of Fort Myers, it's only recently that I've given much thought of his going north with the team. It could happen.

It's an interesting mixed bag for me and I'm fine with whatever the decision is.

 

[Dantes929]

 

Wanting a better backup has nothing to do with him getting more AAA at bats, unless people think he is working on things and can become a legit starter here somehow. Otherwise he only holds value as a backup here, or in a trade somehow.

Slight distinction between being a 4th outfielder and being a back up outfielder.    Granite appears to be our plan for regular starter should any of our three go down to injury.     Basically insurance.   Is a guy like that better prepared to be an every day starter for a few weeks by playing every day in the minors or will he be better prepared to be an every day starter by facing big league pitching sporadically as a 4th outfielder.    As I said it is a slight distinction but one I think the Twins are considering.  If each of our outfielders get 10 days off and Grossmann starts half of those then that reserve outfielder only starts one in 10 games.     The rest of the time is running and fielding replacement.    It has value but probably not much WAR difference between Granite and LaMarre in that SSS.

[stringer bell]

To get down to the fine points, why would Granite start any game ahead of Rosario-Buxton-Kepler? The only answer I have is that Granite would give one of the three a day of rest, but they're all young so the number of days rest needed is pretty small. Sight unseen, I would think that LaMarre could on a few occasions be a better offensive alternative against a left handed pitcher than Kepler (and maybe Rosario). Realizing further that the downgrade in defense would be minor or non-existent (as compared to starting Grossman on a corner), I wonder if there is a place for LaMarre on the Opening Day roster.

 

The drawback would be exposing another player when removing him from the 40-man (Vargas?). Is having someone who might be incrementally better vs. LH pitching worth exposing someone like Kennys Vargas? I don't know, but I really don't see much value in having Granite fill the same role.

[yarnivek1972]

To get down to the fine points, why would Granite start any game ahead of Rosario-Buxton-Kepler? The only answer I have is that Granite would give one of the three a day of rest, but they're all young so the number of days rest needed is pretty small. Sight unseen, I would think that LaMarre could on a few occasions be a better offensive alternative against a left handed pitcher than Kepler (and maybe Rosario). Realizing further that the downgrade in defense would be minor or non-existent (as compared to starting Grossman on a corner), I wonder if there is a place for LaMarre on the Opening Day roster.

 

The drawback would be exposing another player when removing him from the 40-man (Vargas?). Is having someone who might be incrementally better vs. LH pitching worth exposing someone like Kennys Vargas? I don't know, but I really don't see much value in having Granite fill the same role.

Unless the Twins plan on having Vargas at the MLB level, he will have to be removed from the 40 man anyway.

[Twins33]

Whoa whoa WHOA.

 

Grossman had a .770 OPS in the minors. Over his last three partial seasons, he had an OPS of:

 

.914

.703

.823

 

Ryan Lamarre, on the other hand. He had an OPS of .814 in 2016. That's swell.

 

His career MiLB OPS? .719. His highest OPS outside 2016? Well, he had a .767 in rookie ball in 2010.

Yes, those are the stats, but how do we know with 100% certainty that's the real Lamarre? He changed his swing all the time in the minors. All the time. He said it himself. Can you really get consistent results if you're always changing something as important as your swing?

 

The guy would be sitting on the bench all but 1-2 games a week so I don't get why it's a big deal at all.

 

If we're so fixated on past results, why aren't we slamming the LoMo signing as a fluke? A signing which I, and I'm sure you, love or at least like.

 

Sample sizes are different, but results very similar.

2014-2016 Logan Morrison .240/.311/.403 ISO .163 wRC+ 99

2014-2016 Kennys Vargas .251/.309/.434 ISO .183 wRC+ 101

 

Most people like the Morrison signing and want Vargas gone. Why aren't we discussing how bad it is to have LoMo? Because he's probably a different guy now. He's made changes. Lamarre may have too. I wouldn't mind seeing what Rowson could do with him.

 

But again, I don't really care if it's Lamarre or Granite. Both are just bench guys. Neither will likely have a better season than any of our top three OF. Shouldn't matter which ones butt is warming the bench.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes, those are the stats, but how do we know with 100% certainty that's the real Lamarre? He changed his swing all the time in the minors. All the time. He said it himself. Can you really get consistent results if you're always changing something as important as your swing?

 

The guy would be sitting on the bench all but 1-2 games a week so I don't get why it's a big deal at all.

 

If we're so fixated on past results, why aren't we slamming the LoMo signing as a fluke? A signing which I, and I'm sure you, love or at least like.

 

Sample sizes are different, but results very similar.

2014-2016 Logan Morrison .240/.311/.403 ISO .163 wRC+ 99

2014-2016 Kennys Vargas .251/.309/.434 ISO .183 wRC+ 101

 

Most people like the Morrison signing and want Vargas gone. Why aren't we discussing how bad it is to have LoMo? Because he's probably a different guy now. He's made changes. Lamarre may have too. I wouldn't mind seeing what Rowson could do with him.

 

But again, I don't really care if it's Lamarre or Granite. Both are just bench guys. Neither will likely have a better season than any of our top three OF. Shouldn't matter which ones butt is warming the bench.

You’re comparing Morrison’s altered approach that paid dividends over a full MLB season to Lamarre, who had ~50 really good plate appearances against rusty opponents, many of whom will either be waived or sent to the minors.

 

Not really the same thing.

 

And I’m not against taking a flyer on Lamarre, but I’m dead set against swapping him for Grossman, a guy who has shown he is a capable MLB player in games that matter.

[Twins33]

You’re comparing Morrison’s altered approach that paid dividends over a full MLB season to Lamarre, who had ~50 really good plate appearances against rusty opponents, many of whom will either be waived or sent to the minors.

Not really the same thing.

And I’m not against taking a flyer on Lamarre, but I’m dead set against swapping him for Grossman, a guy who has shown he is capable MLB player in games that matter.

But what you're implying is that Lamarre can't make any changes to be better. That it's absolutely impossible. That's how it comes off at least.

 

Adrianza was a very poor hitter prior to last year. He made swing changes and was able to hit near league average for a SS. People still don't want him on this team, though he seems to have turned a corner. Why is it impossible for Lamarre to improve? I'm not saying it's guaranteed he will improve but why is it impossible? You may be right. That the guy he was before is the guy he will always be, but you could also be wrong because he could change. Like Adrianza did. Like LoMo did.

 

LoMo and Adrianza were given the MLB at bats. Why is Lamarre not allowed to get the same chance?

Edited March 26, 2018 by Twins33

[Mike Sixel]

 

But what you're implying is that Lamarre can't make any changes to be better. That it's absolutely impossible. That's how it comes off at least.

Adrianza was a very poor hitter prior to last year. He made swing changes and was able to hit near league average for a SS. People still don't want him on this team, though he seems to have turned a corner. Why is it impossible for Lamarre to improve? I'm not saying it's guaranteed he will improve but why is it impossible? You may be right. That the guy he was before is the guy he will always be, but you could also be wrong because he could change. Like Adrianza did. Like LoMo did.it allowed to get the same chance

 

No, he's saying, and I'm saying, is that he's 29 and it is not LIKELY that he's good. You do realize his BABIP is twice what is realistic, in spring training, right?

 

I think people here confuse likely with "certain" a lot. Brock isn't certain of anything, but he's talking about what is likely/probably.

[nicksaviking]

 

LoMo and Adrianza were given the MLB at bats. Why is Lamarre not allowed to get the same chance?

 

Adrianza is still a poor hitter. He really only got at bats last year due to injury.

 

In Adrianza's favor is that he plays a position that historically has accepted backups with poor bats if they have a good glove. 

 

[Twins33]

No, he's saying, and I'm saying, is that he's 29 and it is not LIKELY that he's good. You do realize his BABIP is twice what is realistic, in spring training, right?

 

I think people here confuse likely with "certain" a lot. Brock isn't certain of anything, but he's talking about what is likely/probably.

Im not hanging on to Lamarre spring training stats. And I'm not saying that's the reason why he should be called up. I was aware of his BABIP. I still wouldn't care if it's Granite or Lamarre because they're both not going to be contributing much. The Twins season is not going to be made or broken because of Granite or Lamarre.

 

I just don't get that people are so completely against him being up. That's how I infer their position, at least. All I know is that I'm glad they gave Grossman a shot when everyone was against it, including me. No matter what his minor league stats said, his major league stats prior to the Twins were "meh". While he's not amazing, he's certainly way better than I expected. I'm glad they gave Adrianza a shot, which is one I was actually hoping they'd give a shot to and he delivered. There are some who still don't want him on this team after what he did last season, which I don't get.

 

I'd be perfectly fine if Lamarre was in the minors. I'd be perfectly fine if Lamarre was in the majors. Like I said, I'd love to see what Rowson could do with him. Maybe nothing changes, but we'll never know if he never gets a shot.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Twins33

[Twins33]

Adrianza is still a poor hitter. He really only got at bats last year due to injury.

 

In Adrianza's favor is that he plays a position that historically has accepted backups with poor bats if they have a good glove.

 

He hit near league average for a SS last year. How high are your expectations? Because that's all I hope for out of a SS. Good defense and somewhere near league average stats. That doesn't mean I don't want a SS who could hit like Trout, but it's about being realistic. I don't think league average for a SS is poor. Edited March 26, 2018 by Twins33

[jkcarew]

The fact that we are talking about two 25-man spots confuses the conversation.  At least it's puzzling to me.  If the Twins are looking at this last spot being another outfielder, I can understand why they would consider LaMarre.  They're considering LaMarre simply because they (presumably) have the roster spot, and because they'd take almost any right-handed bat at this time over Granite.  So would I.

 

On the other hand, what I expected is that the last spot would go to an infielder (who doesn't exist...at least yet).  If something happens along those lines, the 40-man spot is taken, and LaMarre is at Rochester along with Granite.  Unless you want our primary bench bat, and right-handed pinch-hitter and emergency DH to be LaMarre.  That would be truly ballsy on the part of the Twins.

 

Who gets the starts/innings if one of the big three goes on the DL is a completely different discussion.

[amjgt]

The only way to hit 500 is to have a ridiculous BABIP

[jorgenswest]

He hit near league average for a SS last year. How high are your expectations? Because that's all I hope for out of a SS. Good defense and somewhere near league average stats. That doesn't mean I don't want a SS who could hit like Trout, but it's about being realistic. I don't think league average for a SS is poor.

It just isn’t enough plate appearances to compare. Slash stats don’t stabilize until near a full season of at bats. The batting average part is over 900 ABs. There just isn’t enough sample to support a conclusion that he has the ability to be a league average hitter as a SS. His three measures where his sample might be meaningful are K%, BB% and ISO. His K% was good, BB% was OK and ISO was poor for a shortstop.

[Twins33]

It just isn’t enough plate appearances to compare. Slash stats don’t stabilize until near a full season of at bats. The batting average part is over 900 ABs. There just isn’t enough sample to support a conclusion that he has the ability to be a league average hitter as a SS. His three measures where his sample might be meaningful are K%, BB% and ISO. His K% was good, BB% was OK and ISO was poor for a shortstop.

im not saying he can hit like that for a full season. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. I really don't know. The thing is, he did hit league average for 100 and whatever ABs. He did what he needed to do when called upon. That's fact.

 

Again, all I expect out of a SS, no matter how many AB's it is, is league average offense for their position and good defense. And he provided that with the slash line. Anything more is icing on top.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Twins33

[jun]

LaMarre should be ahead of Granite in depth chart.

[old nurse]

 

On this team he's a backup, or trade bait, or backup. Are we not supposed to have this conversation in context of the Twins? I am aware of KATOH thinks (and man we are going to miss seeing KATOH, sigh), but that's not in context of his value to the Twins.

It would appear that one is not suposed to have a notion that you develop the players to their fullest extent