Article: No Suspension For Miguel Sano

[strumdatjaguar]

MLB investigated this accusation and its assessment regarding the lack of credibility of the accusation is pretty clear.  Sorry, but I trust the MLB review as being more objective and thorough than the opinions of the  "I'm a fan of Miggy" crowd and the "I know Betsy personally" crowd.  Play ball!

[DaveW]

 

MLB investigated this accusation and its assessment regarding the lack of credibility of the accusation is pretty clear.  Sorry, but I trust the MLB review as being more objective and thorough than the opinions of the  "I'm a fan of Miggy" crowd and the "I know Betsy personally" crowd.  Play ball!

Good point! 

The MLB uses several of the top legal minds, lawyers etc, and by all accounts it was very thorough (they interviewed over 20 people)

I applaud the MLB for doing a thorough investigation and putting this matter to bed for once and for all.

Re: Sano in the lineup, I hope he has 45 HR and this is a huge 'breakout' year for him!

[adorduan]

 

Try this:

 

https://twitter.com/michaelholmdahl/status/946620730371985408

ah, twitter, such a reliable source of information...  I believe everything i read on it, no questions asked.

[Vanimal46]

I'm glad this heated topic has a conclusion. Of course not all are going to agree with it, but the MLB did its due diligence and here we are.

 

Thank God Twitter isn't a judge, jury, and executioner. Because Sano would have been burned at the stake back in December.

[jokin]

 

I'm glad this heated topic has a conclusion. Of course not all are going to agree with it, but the MLB did its due diligence and here we are.

Thank God Twitter isn't a judge, jury, and executioner. Because Sano would have been burned at the stake back in December.

 

ah, twitter, such a reliable source of information...  I believe everything i read on it, no questions asked.

 

Yep. FWIW, I was in Chattanooga and sat behind the Twins dugout for two games in 2015. Sano was one of the "vocal leaders" both in pregame warm-up sessions, and in the dugout during the games. Lots of sometime mischievious chatter between teammates and occasional chatter with off-field spectators and employees. Sano was a frequent instigator. However, I didn't notice anyone being "harassed."

 

I guess that "proves" that Sano is.... what, exactly?

Gregarious?

Immature?

Exonerated from Betsy's charges?

 

Oof.... the scourge that Twitter sometimes can be. The platform has nuclearized the power to dangerously redefine the legal notion of "Rush to Judgement".

 

Does anyone seriously believe that the "head usher" at AT&T Park freely shared with some random fan... the entire set of adopted policies and procedures taken relative to a perceived predatory sexually harassing Lookout player?

[ewen21]

Here is what I don't like. Several people affiliated with the Twins past and present weighed in on this. One of them was Trevor May. I understand he sent what can be thought of as a benign post, as he Tweeted: "Sorry Betsy" but he never should have done that. It reveals that he made the assumption his teammate was guilty. More bothersome were the anonymous quotes and Plouffe's quote.

 

I guess he isn't a teammate so it is what it is, but as far as teammates go I've no idea why any of them would say anything beyond "I'm not aware of this issue"

Those who talked about Sano being a "ticking time bomb" need to look in the mirror because they only spoke up after this woman said something. I hope the Twins front office has something to say about this to the players who felt compelled to Tweet or speak to the press about this. They had no business giving their two cents one way or the other

[one_eyed_jack]

It's not going to satisfy everyone, but based on the evidence this strikes me as the correct result.

 

At the end of the day, what you had was a Twitter accusation that Sano committed a serious crime in a public place 2 years ago.  The MLB investigated and found no evidence to corroborate it, and apparently, perhaps some evidence to contradict it.

 

I have a hard time seeing how punishing Sano would be fair in this situation.  Maybe there's temptation to do so to show support for #metoo, but I think we also need to be mindful of the fact that this country also has a history of punishing black men for allegations of sexual misconduct against a white woman based on flimsy evidence.

 

It's interesting to me that so many seem to be so quick to assume that Sano is guilty here - would the reaction be the same if a black woman made the same accusation 2 years later, giving a reason for waiting that is demonstrably false, against Mauer or Dozier?

 

 

[bunsen82]

I will admit this is still a tough topic from me, but I was one of the few from the start that said little to nothing would occur from this.  This occurred for two reasons, one it was very clear there was exaggeration in the initial claim, and rightly or wrongly waiting 2+ years to file a claim is going to significantly decrease, corroborating evidence and a more accurate memory or portrayal of the incident.  The method of releasing the info also did not help matters.   It appeared away to shame multiple individuals.  Not a way to become part of the movement.  I still question the motive slightly why it was done in the matter it was done but that is neither here nor there.  I hope they both can move on from this incident and Sano can realize how careful he needs to be in the future with interactions.  You cannot leave anything up for interpretation, and sadly I think that is what happened here.  

Edited March 24, 2018 by bunsen82

[ewen21]

I don't like that his teammates spoke immediately through social media and anonymously in the press. No comments are needed. If you were there then speak as a witness. If not, you are speaking out of turn. Right or not, I did not like the anonymous comments or the Twitter stuff from the two Trevors. Both have enough to keep themselves busy with regards to their game.

[stockdogg]

IF a player believes something bad happened, he should just shut up and let it go? Is that your stance? If so, that's how bad things keep happening. If not, in not sure what you are saying.

I!am saying he probably regrets tweeting that. He is in the same union, remember, as Sano. Want to show his support for her? Fine, then he probably should have just made it private. He wanted everyone to know what he thought or he wouldn't have tweeted that. Wasnt much of a tweet anyway, but i dont think it was very smart of him to go firing that off hours after that statement...unless he knew something? Then why didnt he speak up earlier ? It's his career he probably hurt, not mine.

[stockdogg]

I don't like that his teammates spoke immediately through social media and anonymously in the press. No comments are needed. If you were there then speak as a witness. If not, you are speaking out of turn. Right or not, I did not like the anonymous comments or the Twitter stuff from the two Trevors. Both have enough to keep themselves busy with regards to their game.

Plouffe losing his job to Sano and being on another team is excusable. May should have been talked to by twins and the mlbpa

[RegularJoe62]

 

It's ridiculous to me that everyone just assumes that he did it, but there just wasn't "enough" proof (which doesn't even make sense, either there is or there isn't proof).
 

MLB and the club have a higher standard of proof to meet before they can suspend a player. The rest of us are free to come to our own conclusions based on what evidence we found, and what I found is that Betsy is credible and that this fits a pattern of behavior for Sano. 

 

[ewen21]

Yes, that's the issue I have with May. He wants to go through Twitter and say something then he has to live with it. Not smart.

 

Seems to me he simply heard about the accusation and decided he needed to Tweet something. I don't Tweet or do Facebook or relay anything having to do with the school district where I'm employed. I am in the public and I don't feel at liberty to discuss co-workers personal issues on the Internet.

 

I know he just said:

"Sorry Betsy" but he should not feel at liberty to go there on any level. It's just foolish. He needs to be less of a Twitter bro and more of a pro.

 

That's about all I want I say

[Mike Sixel]

Here is what I don't like. Several people affiliated with the Twins past and present weighed in on this. One of them was Trevor May. I understand he sent what can be thought of as a benign post, as he Tweeted: "Sorry Betsy" but he never should have done that. It reveals that he made the assumption his teammate was guilty. More bothersome were the anonymous quotes and Plouffe's quote.

 

I guess he isn't a teammate so it is what it is, but as far as teammates go I've no idea why any of them would say anything beyond "I'm not aware of this issue"

Those who talked about Sano being a "ticking time bomb" need to look in the mirror because they only spoke up after this woman said something. I hope the Twins front office has something to say about this to the players who felt compelled to Tweet or speak to the press about this. They had no business giving their two cents one way or the other

If they knew he had a pattern of behaviour, they should shut up an let it continue? Note I said if. That is your argument? Team over morals?

[adorduan]

 

MLB and the club have a higher standard of proof to meet before they can suspend a player. The rest of us are free to come to our own conclusions based on what evidence we found, and what I found is that Betsy is credible and that this fits a pattern of behavior for Sano. 

Just curious, based on what?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Sexual assault is not a "cultural thing." In fact, the act itself and its widespread toleration is very "American." Plenty of "Americans" do both. Harvey Weinstein. Our very own Garrison Keillor. A very prominent politician who is in the news every day. Lots of "Americans." Have you heard of Me Too, by any chance?

Widespread toleration? Can you honestly point to any sector of American life where sexual assault occurs, is witnessed/made known publicly, and then collectively given a pass? Horrible events occur in life, but the fact that they exist doesn't mean they're tolerated. 

 

The fates of both Keillor and Weinstein and the #metoo movement would suggest the exact opposite, i.e. sexual assault isn't tolerated in America. 

[RegularJoe62]

 

Just curious, based on what?

Based in large part on pretty much everyone she knows believing her. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I'm surprised they didn't at least require some counseling. But I suppose they either had proof, in which case they would get blasted for going too light, or they didn't. 

 

I agree there are no winners in this. But given the amount of time that lapsed, it was never likely they would find definitive proof on this.

 

I wouldn't treat the lack of anything said publicly on this as evidence that MLB is not requiring counseling. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was something that either MN or MLB strongly encouraged... whether or not Sano chooses to do so is a different issue.

 

But yeah, no winners. Time wasn't on Betsy's side on this one, and if I'm reading between the lines, she's basically acknowledged as much. 

[TheLeviathan]

Since there are some people that know Betsy personally or may be more connected, is there more information about the investigation out there?

 

In particular, reports I heard indicated that there was "conflicting" accounts.  I know Betsy and Miguel have conflicting accounts, but what of the other 18 people?

 

Maybe there is nothing else to know, but I would be curious to find out if anyone has anything more clued into the investigation.  (Plus, I think that we know a lot about one version of the events, but there were a sizable number of questions at the outset about other people from the Twins that may have been present)

[RegularJoe62]

 

Widespread toleration? Can you honestly point to any sector of American life where sexual assault occurs, is witnessed/made known publicly, and then collectively given a pass? Horrible events occur in life, but the fact that they exist doesn't mean they're tolerated. 

 

The fates of both Keillor and Weinstein and the #metoo movement would suggest the exact opposite, i.e. sexual assault isn't tolerated in America. 

Have a look at numbers for prosecutions and convictions in rape cases. It's grossly under reported to police to begin with, and then only a fraction are prosecuted, and fewer still are convicted. Rape victims are further traumatized at each stage by police who often don't believe them, prosecutors who don't put perps on trial because the cases aren't slam dunks, and defense attorneys who blame the victims. Yeah, I'd say "widespread toleration" is a pretty accurate description. The #MeToo movement doesn't suggest the opposite, it's just swung the needle closer to something rational for women who are survivors of sexual assault and harassment. 

[ewen21]

I said that's all I wanted to say but Mike.....

 

You're twisting what I'm saying. If they had a problem with Sano and this kind of behavior they should've spoken about it privately. They should've went to the authorities. speaking to the press and speaking through social media only serve to ease their conscience. Maybe they did go to the authorities but if they had the authorities would've given them instructions not to do such things as they have. That's all.

 

I take offense to you saying that I'm telling them to sweep it under the rug. It's almost like you're saying Immoral.

 

I don't think it's fair that you could say something like that without me being able to respond. I hope this clarifies things and then I will respectfully give you the last word here

[bighat]

 

It works both ways...but the opposite of how you describe...at least, ideally....

 

No eyebrows should be raised, neither in the direction of Sano nor in the direction of the accuser.  We don't know what happened...people whose job it is to find out, and who had access to whatever information existed, couldn't determine with any certainty what happened.  That's the point.  Moving on...

 

My thoughts as well.

[PseudoSABR]

I'd just like to add:  that in a court of law (this may vary from state to state), there need not be any corroborating evidence, nor any direct evidence.  Testimony is enough, of course, it must be enough to overcome the jury's reasonable doubts.  But often testimony is the only evidence.

 

The MLB may require a higher sufficiency standard than a court of a law because they aren't using a jury/due-process to make decisions.   So even if MLB believed her version, without corroboration or direct evidence, I imagine their hands were tied.  

[The_Phantom]

 

I'd just like to add:  that in a court of law (this may vary from state to state), there need not be any corroborating evidence, nor any direct evidence.  Testimony is enough, of course, it must be enough to overcome the jury's reasonable doubts.  But often testimony is the only evidence.

 

The MLB may require a higher sufficiency standard than a court of a law because they aren't using a jury/due-process to make decisions.   So even if MLB believed her version, without corroboration or direct evidence, I imagine their hands were tied.  

 

I don't believe that to be the case. I believe MLB's policies are likely far less stringent than a court of law where someone is, legally, innocent until proven guilty. Considering that another player was just suspended for apparently having a yelling match with his wife, it sounds like MLB found nothing to hang a case on. Which, again, doesn't mean nothing happened, it just means that they didn't even have enough to have reasonable suspicion that it did happen as she said. Perhaps more briefly, in a court of law reasonable doubt is enough to acquit. In a case like this, reasonable suspicion is surely enough to suspend. 

Edited March 24, 2018 by The_Phantom

[PseudoSABR]

 

It works both ways...but the opposite of how you describe...at least, ideally....

 

No eyebrows should be raised, neither in the direction of Sano nor in the direction of the accuser.  We don't know what happened...people whose job it is to find out, and who had access to whatever information existed, couldn't determine with any certainty what happened.  That's the point.  Moving on...

That creates a false equivalency.  False accusations and sexual assault do not occur at the same rates.   

Accusation can eventually become testimony, which is enough to sustain a conviction.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

I don't believe that to be the case. I believe MLB's policies are likely far less stringent than a court of law where someone is, legally, innocent until proven guilty. Considering that another player was just suspended for apparently having a yelling match with his wife, it sounds like MLB found nothing to hang a case on. Which, again, doesn't mean nothing happened, it just means that they didn't even have enough to have reasonable suspicion that it would happen. Perhaps more briefly, in a court of law reasonable doubt is enough to acquit. In a case like this, reasonable suspicion is surely enough to suspend. 

Again her testimony would be sufficient evidence in any court of law. I stand by that they could not find any corroborating evidence. I imagine in the other case, MLB was able to talk to witnesses.  

 

While there are great many protections for defendants, again the evidentiary and sufficiency standards are often much lower than you would anticipate.  

 

Private organizations make their own rules regarding what kind of evidence is sufficient;  while they may not need prove beyond a reasonable doubt (probably just by preponderance, more likely than not), they per rule require direct or corroborating evidence (I'm speculating, but I think, generally, it's a sound policy, except it doesn't work well for sexual assault). 

 

Reasonable suspicion is the standard for the police to be able pull your car over or search you for their own safety.  It doesn't apply to standards of proof or sufficiency of evidence.  

Edited March 24, 2018 by PseudoSABR

[KirbyDome89]

 

Have a look at numbers for prosecutions and convictions in rape cases. It's grossly under reported to police to begin with, and then only a fraction are prosecuted, and fewer still are convicted. Rape victims are further traumatized at each stage by police who often don't believe them, prosecutors who don't put perps on trial because the cases aren't slam dunks, and defense attorneys who blame the victims. Yeah, I'd say "widespread toleration" is a pretty accurate description. The #MeToo movement doesn't suggest the opposite, it's just swung the needle closer to something rational for women who are survivors of sexual assault and harassment. 

Conviction rates are a total non sequitur. To find a party guilty, reasonable doubt must be removed. That can be a difficult barrier to clear under some circumstances. An inability to convict doesn't mean assault is tolerated. 

 

I agree that having to rehash the experience can be traumatic but that's where I stop. I don't share your belief that police and DAs are colluding to cover up assault cases. 

 

 

[The_Phantom]

 

Again her testimony would be sufficient evidence in any court of law. 

 

If that were remotely true, literally 100% of sexual assault cases would result in a conviction. The alleged victim's testimony is never evidence. 

[one_eyed_jack]

 

Again her testimony would be sufficient evidence in any court of law. 

 

Sufficient evidence for what - a conviction?  Yes, if the jury believes it, the victim's testimony alone could be enough.  

 

But that doesn't really mean much because the alleged victim's testimony is not the only evidence presented at a trial.  Whether the jury believes the victim will often hinge on how well it matches the other evidence presented.

 

In this case, given that there was no independent evidence to substantiate the allegations, and possibly evidence to contradict them, it would be pretty tough to sell a jury on proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

 

[one_eyed_jack]

 

Rape victims are further traumatized at each stage by police who often don't believe them, prosecutors who don't put perps on trial because the cases aren't slam dunks, and defense attorneys who blame the victims. 

 

The problem with law enforcement's approach to sex crimes is one of perverse incentives.  Thanks to a flow of federal money and asset forfeiture laws that allow local police departments to enrich themselves with what they seize from drug investigation, they tend to put most of their resources into drug enforcement.   They'll send out teams of guys to raid pot dealers while rape kits sit untested for months, even years, if they are ever tested at all. 

 

They don't get any money for solving rapes, but they do for going after drug dealers.

 

As far as defense attorneys go, they should not be shamed for "victim blaming" because they raise a consent defense on behalf of their client when there is evidence to support it.  Everyone charged with a crime is entitled to a vigorous defense.  (I see this narrative about defense attorneys raised frequently, I swear they must teach kids in school these days that Atticus Finch was the bad guy in To Kill a Mockingbird because he questioned a rape accuser.)