Article: Jorge Polanco Receives 80-Game Suspension For PED

[nicksaviking]

 

The penalties are unfair and the testing is a joke.

 

MLB has set up a system that will catch a handful of players a year while letting most get through so fans can pretend that PED use isn't still part of the game. According to wikipedia's list, only 19 ML players have been caught since the renegotiated system in 2014. I'm not sure if 19 is the exact number but it feels right. I'm pretty confident a lot more than 19 ML have been using PEDs in that time frame.

 

Masking agents have improved greatly which is allowing athletes to use more and better drugs. We've seen that in the Olympics (where Russia essentially put all their athletes on something), we've seen it in chess, football, horse racing. But, yeah, baseball is super duper clean. Baseball teams are investing millions to figure out how to have players perform better are completely ignoring drug use b/c AJ Preller and Thad Levine are virtuous guys.

 

This is offensive to anyone in baseball who fought for a clean game and derided Bonds, McGwire and company, and that is a whole lot of people. Yeah, I'm sure Erick Aybar feels terrible that he has a job this year at the expense of a guy who cheated in an effort to keep one away from him. MLB tried and couldn't get the union to agree to tougher testing, stop laying this at the feet of MLB. They do some greedy stuff, but this isn't one of them, painting them as a villain here takes away from any argument where they actually are at fault. 

 

To get the union to agree to any testing conditions took a literal act of congress. This is on the players and the argument I'm hearing basically boils down to people are cheating but it's not fair for the DR players because they aren't as good at cheating. If you want to even it out, take it up with the MLBPA; let the league test these guys monthly and for any and all substances; the league will do it. 

[Squirrel]

I would understand it more if he were a 16-year-old getting busted.

 

As it were he's 24 and had already secured a 750K signing bonus as a teenager. He may have been impoverished back in the day, he wasn't when he took the PEDs.

I never said he shouldn’t pay the consequences. Never once. All I’m saying is that if you want to address the issue over all you have to go beyond a MLB rule. Period. Kids, young kids, are lured into this as a way of life early on to the point it’s part of the culture and a means of escape. They are prey to teams and agents. I’m not excusing Polanco or anyone else who gets caught by suggesting that there is more to it that needs more understanding than those who want it to be a black and white issue. It’s not. But I’m not excusing Polanco, as I think I’ve already stated that one way or the other, he should have known better. But since this conversation has morphed beyond just Polanco but PED usage, this ‘Its a rule and that’s the end of it’ stance from a couple of posters I think is fool-hardy and solves nothing.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I made this point pages back. It’s legal in the DR and almost encouraged and I’d bet agents are involved in this as well. Enticing and luring, actually preying on the impoverished. Why I don’t believe it’s a race issue when a very high percentage of those caught are from the DR. That is not coincidental to me.

 

I've been to the DR a few times... I'll simply say that I buy the idea that the supplement could have been tainted... With as many players from the DR suspended, one would think though that players would want to find ways around that... it's not like it would be hard to pick up a 3 month supply of supplements at GNC or Costco and take it back with you if you wanted to avoid that though...

 

I don't know if this was an accident or intentional, but this is on Polanco. Best he can do is what Santana did and cooperate so as to help people figure out where it's coming from. 

[Squirrel]

I've been to the DR a few times... I'll simply say that I buy the idea that the supplement could have been tainted... With as many players from the DR suspended, one would think though that players would want to find ways around that... it's not like it would be hard to pick up a 3 month supply of supplements at GNC or Costco and take it back with you if you wanted to avoid that though...

 

I don't know if this was an accident or intentional, but this is on Polanco. Best he can do is what Santana did and cooperate so as to help people figure out where it's coming from.

 

Oh for sure. As I’ve said several times now, I’m not absolving him of responsibility at all, he should have known better; just looking at the larger issue.

[gunnarthor]

 

This is offensive to anyone in baseball who fought for a clean game and derided Bonds, McGwire and company, and that is a whole lot of people. Yeah, I'm sure Erick Aybar feels terrible that he has a job this year at the expense of a guy who cheated in an effort to keep one away from him. MLB tried and couldn't get the union to agree to tougher testing, stop laying this at the feet of MLB. They do some greedy stuff, but this isn't one of them, painting them as a villain here takes away from any argument where they actually are at fault. 

 

To get the union to agree to any testing conditions took a literal act of congress. This is on the players and the argument I'm hearing basically boils down to people are cheating but it's not fair for the DR players because they aren't as good at cheating. If you want to even it out, take it up with the MLBPA; let the league test these guys monthly and for any and all substances; the league will do it. 

If you wanted to, you could build quite a few bricks with all the straw men you created there.

[USAFChief]

 

If you wanted to, you could build quite a few bricks with all the straw men you created there.

In this thread, you've stated that

 

- masking agents aren't as good in the DR as in the US

 

- MLB deliberately set up a system that will catch a few players but let the majority pass

 

- MLB WANTs players to use PEDs, in fact they've actually "set up a system that pushes PED use"

 

- No one in baseball think the players are to blame for PED use.

 

...

 

I don't think it's Nick with the strawmen.

[nicksaviking]

 

I've been to the DR a few times... I'll simply say that I buy the idea that the supplement could have been tainted... With as many players from the DR suspended, one would think though that players would want to find ways around that... it's not like it would be hard to pick up a 3 month supply of supplements at GNC or Costco and take it back with you if you wanted to avoid that though...

 

I don't know if this was an accident or intentional, but this is on Polanco. Best he can do is what Santana did and cooperate so as to help people figure out where it's coming from. 

 

And for all of our bickering in this thread, Polanco has done exactly that. He's taking responsibility.

[Otto von Ballpark]

What about Tommy Johnson that grew up in Edina, MN and had everything handed to him on a silver platter. He definitely should know better than to take PEDs to get ahead in life.

Tommy Johnson of Edina can just call up the club pro and ask if that kind of cake is on the approved list.

[Mr. Brooks]

Fair. And I would not do it. But I also am not from a poor nation, with an entire family to support, maybe for generations. But fair.

But isn't it possible that the peer(s) he's cheating out of a job/ money are also from a poor nation?

 

And as someone else said, he may have been dirt poor at one point, but he's not now.

From his bonus and salaries, he's already made as much money as I'll make in my lifetime.

[Mr. Brooks]

And for all of our bickering in this thread, Polanco has done exactly that. He's taking responsibility.

Not really though.

"I'm sorry for the situation, but it wasn't my fault", isn't really taking responsibility.

 

"I screwed up. I have nobody to blame but myself. I'm human, I made a mistake. I'll never let it happen again, and will forever work to reestablish my character."

That's what taking responsibility would sound like to me.

[DaveW]

Jorge Polanco including signing bonus and minor league salary has only made 1.35 million. That really isn't much once you factor in taxes, agent, legal etc etc

 

[Mike Sixel]

But isn't it possible that the peer(s) he's cheating out of a job/ money are also from a poor nation?

 

And as someone else said, he may have been dirt poor at one point, but he's not now.

From his bonus and salaries, he's already made as much money as I'll make in my lifetime.

Yes, and? Also not sure he's made generations of money yet, regardless of how it compares to your wages.

[Riverbrian]

If MLB Baseball would let me. I could fix it and fix it good.

 

Real Simple: Take Steroids -- First offense results in a lifetime Ban plus an immediate voiding of the existing contract.  

 

Done

 

If the penalties are not severe enough to transcend the benefit of taking the risk... Players will take the risk.

 

For Polanco... The benefits are MILLIONS of dollars and people singing songs about your greatness.

 

The penalty is an 80 game suspension without pay ($300K) and I assume a roster spot waiting for him when the suspension is lifted. He will still earn 300K and he will probably be brought back next year with a contract that pays more than what Doctors and Lawyers earn in a year. 

 

In the case of 23 year old John Doe with a .280 batting average with the Birmingham Barons.

 

The Benefit is a place on the 40 man roster 600K in salary and a mid-season call up when the starting shortstop gets hurt.

 

The Risk is only public shame and that will be forgotten about in about a week after he starts his new job selling cars for his hometown Chevy dealership. He doesn't risk anything else because he was going to be selling cars for his hometown Chevy dealership anyway because he isn't getting called up without the juice.  He will make more money at the Chevy dealership when he is finally released from his minor league obligations for lack of production. 

 

We got a lot of metric minded people on TwinsDaily that can do the math and conclude that the penalty isn't strong enough to be an effective deterrent. 

 

We can all easily recognize that Baseball players are handsomely rewarded for super human results. We can all easily recognize that players are released and out of baseball while the social media mobs call them trash if they hit .200.

 

The system forces are going to drive the bus in the direction it's going. 

 

We can all easily recognize that the College Basketball Coach gets rewarded with a longer and more lucrative contract when they win.

 

We can all easily recognize that they eventually get fired after enduring damning editorials in the newspaper, embarrassing comments at the booster luncheons and the social media mobs calling them trash for losing. 

 

The system forces are going to drive the bus in the direction it's going. 

 

We can all easily recognize that the politician is going to take that sizable donation from the oil company spilling crude into Lake Minnetonka and they are going to introduce legislation that opens up Lake Calhoun for crude dumping. 

 

We can all easily recognize that the politician isn't going to have enough money to get elected when the oil company gives that sizable donation to his opponent after he refuses it. 

 

The system forces are going to drive the bus in the direction it's going. 

 

My favorite quote in the whole wide world is: Your systems are perfectly designed... to get you exactly where you are. 

 

So that brings us down to Morality. For a Million Dollars... I wonder what crappy thing I'd be capable of doing. I'm sure I could think of something. 

 

 

[gunnarthor]

In this thread, you've stated that

 

- masking agents aren't as good in the DR as in the US

 

- MLB deliberately set up a system that will catch a few players but let the majority pass

 

- MLB WANTs players to use PEDs, in fact they've actually "set up a system that pushes PED use"

 

- No one in baseball think the players are to blame for PED use.

 

...

 

I don't think it's Nick with the strawmen.

Again, Nick is the one that is suggesting that "people are cheating but it's not fair for the DR players because they aren't as good at cheating." I certainly never made that claim.

 

As for the claims you're hyping, yes, I think we've seen with BALCO and a few other large scale doping like Biogenisis that America is far ahead of the DR in terms of places where players can get masking agents and designer PEDs. A disproportionate number of PED suspensions in baseball have been of Domincan ball players. There could be several reasons for that but very likely one of them is that they are not getting the highest level PEDs in the DR.

 

Yes, MLB's testing procedure is a joke unless you think only about 20 or so players have been using PEDs since 2014.  The NFL, in the same time frame, has caught many more players despite having a less rigorous testing plan. The reason for such an ineffectual plan is either mlb is incompetent or that the league wants the good PR of drug testing without actually getting PEDs out of the game. Or, I suppose, you can believe that players policed PEDs out of the game themselves.

 

I'm not sure where you think I said no one thinks the players are to blame. I've pointed out that they are not the only ones to blame. A bit of a difference there, chief.

[Mr. Brooks]

Jorge Polanco including signing bonus and minor league salary has only made 1.35 million. That really isn't much once you factor in taxes, agent, legal etc etc

 

 

What do you think is the median, to date earnings for a 24 year old?

Would you say "only" $1.35 million is anywhere close to extreme poverty?

[Mr. Brooks]

Yes, and? Also not sure he's made generations of money yet, regardless of how it compares to your wages.

99.9% of people in the world will never make generations of money. So that is a pretty low standard of when it's understandable to cheat to get ahead.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Jorge Polanco including signing bonus and minor league salary has only made 1.35 million. That really isn't much once you factor in taxes, agent, legal etc etc

 

That seems like a bit of a reach.

 

1.35 million by age 24 is a lot of money. I would've loved to have made "not that much," by the time I turned 24. 

[Nine of twelve]

If MLB Baseball would let me. I could fix it and fix it good.

 

Real Simple: Take Steroids -- First offense results in a lifetime Ban plus an immediate voiding of the existing contract.  

 

Done

 

If the penalties are not severe enough to transcend the benefit of taking the risk... Players will take the risk.

 

For Polanco... The benefits are MILLIONS of dollars and people singing songs about your greatness.

 

The penalty is an 80 game suspension without pay ($300K) and I assume a roster spot waiting for him when the suspension is lifted. He will still earn 300K and he will probably be brought back next year with a contract that pays more than what Doctors and Lawyers earn in a year. 

 

In the case of 23 year old John Doe with a .280 batting average with the Birmingham Barons.

 

The Benefit is a place on the 40 man roster 600K in salary and a mid-season call up when the starting shortstop gets hurt.

 

The Risk is only public shame and that will be forgotten about in about a week after he starts his new job selling cars for his hometown Chevy dealership. He doesn't risk anything else because he was going to be selling cars for his hometown Chevy dealership anyway because he isn't getting called up without the juice.  He will make more money at the Chevy dealership when he is finally released from his minor league obligations for lack of production. 

 

We got a lot of metric minded people on TwinsDaily that can do the math and conclude that the penalty isn't strong enough to be an effective deterrent. 

 

We can all easily recognize that Baseball players are handsomely rewarded for super human results. We can all easily recognize that players are released and out of baseball while the social media mobs call them trash if they hit .200.

 

The system forces are going to drive the bus in the direction it's going. 

 

We can all easily recognize that the College Basketball Coach gets rewarded with a longer and more lucrative contract when they win.

 

We can all easily recognize that they eventually get fired after enduring damning editorials in the newspaper, embarrassing comments at the booster luncheons and the social media mobs calling them trash for losing. 

 

The system forces are going to drive the bus in the direction it's going. 

 

We can all easily recognize that the politician is going to take that sizable donation from the oil company spilling crude into Lake Minnetonka and they are going to introduce legislation that opens up Lake Calhoun for crude dumping. 

 

We can all easily recognize that the politician isn't going to have enough money to get elected when the oil company gives that sizable donation to his opponent after he refuses it. 

 

The system forces are going to drive the bus in the direction it's going. 

 

My favorite quote in the whole wide world is: Your systems are perfectly designed... to get you exactly where you are. 

 

So that brings us down to Morality. For a Million Dollars... I wonder what crappy thing I'd be capable of doing. I'm sure I could think of something.

I'm sure your lifetime ban proposal is well intended, but I'll go to your last paragraph and be devil's advocate. Do you suppose an up-and-coming player would be capable of spiking a rival's food during spring training? Making the penalty more severe for the player who tests positive increases the incentive for something like that.

[DaveW]

 

That seems like a bit of a reach.

 

1.35 million by age 24 is a lot of money. I would've loved to have made "not that much," by the time I turned 24. 

It's not 1.35 million though.

A significant amount of that 750k signing bonus likely went to agents, academies etc

His 600k salary gets a decent chunk taken away as well by agent, legal etc as well.

After all that gets taken away and taxes, I'm guessing he 'got' less than 600k total.

Yeah that's good for a 24 year old, but keep in mind that at any point he could or could have suffered a career ending injury. The idea that he is set for life because of one year at minimum pay and a very modest signing bonus is a little naive.

[Mike Sixel]

99.9% of people in the world will never make generations of money. So that is a pretty low standard of when it's understandable to cheat to get ahead.

There seems to be some confusion here...... Understanding does not equal condoning. I don't know how to make this more clear.

[Riverbrian]

 

I'm sure your lifetime ban proposal is well intended, but I'll go to your last paragraph and be devil's advocate. Do you suppose an up-and-coming player would be capable of spiking a rival's food during spring training? Making the penalty more severe for the player who tests positive increases the incentive for something like that.

 

Do I believe that could happen? I Do

 

Doesn't even have to be the player. I'm not sure where Jeff Gilooly is these days. 

 

How bout this one.

 

You are the backup 1st baseman and the starting 1st baseman is hitting .400 with 50 Bombs and your team has just won the ALCS on the strength of his performance. You haven't played a bit but you saw him using steroids. You got photo's... documents... everything you need for a quick conviction. Do you report him with the world series on the line or stay silent? 

 

If you report him... how will the fans of that team react to the news? How will your teammates react to the news? how will the front office react to the news?  

 

What if the Fans, Team Mates and Front Office knew you were the whistle blower? 

 

My opinion... you will be the one crucified. 

 

[KirbyDome89]

 

It's not 1.35 million though.

A significant amount of that 750k signing bonus likely went to agents, academies etc

His 600k salary gets a decent chunk taken away as well by agent, legal etc as well.

After all that gets taken away and taxes, I'm guessing he 'got' less than 600k total.

Yeah that's good for a 24 year old, but keep in mind that at any point he could or could have suffered a career ending injury. The idea that he is set for life because of one year at minimum pay and a very modest signing bonus is a little naive.

I realize he isn't seeing all of those earnings, and I certainly was saying he's set for life. 

 

The point was that when he knowingly or unknowingly made the decision to use the drug he wasn't in a dire financial situation. 

[glunn]

Moderator note -- there is a lot of good discussion in this thread, but also some bickering. Let's debate the issues without making it personal.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

There seems to be some confusion here...... Understanding does not equal condoning. I don't know how to make this more clear.

My point is, how much money does one have to have, before it's no longer understandable?

Are you saying it's understandable for anyone? If so, why even bring the poverty aspect into the comment?

Are you saying that if you were once poor, then it's continuously understandable, regardless of how much money they've already earned?

I'd be more understanding if it's a fringe milb guy who didn't have a large bonus, and hadn't already earned mlb paychecks.

But Polanco is no longer poor. And he's relatively established as a major leaguer.

Barring catastrophic injury, his floor at this point is probably an Eduardo Escobar type career, which is going to be fairly lucrative.

 

Long story short, I'm just trying to discern how much security a guy can have, before poverty no longer makes what he did understandable?

[Mr. Brooks]

It's not 1.35 million though.

 

A significant amount of that 750k signing bonus likely went to agents, academies etc

 

His 600k salary gets a decent chunk taken away as well by agent, legal etc as well.

 

After all that gets taken away and taxes, I'm guessing he 'got' less than 600k total.

 

Yeah that's good for a 24 year old, but keep in mind that at any point he could or could have suffered a career ending injury. The idea that he is set for life because of one year at minimum pay and a very modest signing bonus is a little naive.

Agents earn like 3-4%. That's 50k max he's paid to agents.

Probably another 50k max to the rest of those things.

 

Also, I don't believe anyone said he's set for life.

But he's also nowhere near poverty.

In fact it's insulting to the billion+ people in the world who do face poverty on an everyday basis to suggest that he is.