Minor Leaguers and Minimum Wage

[Riverbrian]

This is a poor depiction of the actual situation. The 131,000 is not their total comp so why are you comparing based on $131,000? You have not considered the monthly pay or that the difference between college players and 16 year olds. $131,000 is well-above the pay for an average 16-18 y/o. You also failed to consider housing and meals. Take all these things into consideration and the situation is not what you have depicted here. It’s a 6 month job and you are considering the relative fairness based on a 12 month standard.

 

You also fail to consider a college player that takes more than 3 years in the minors might need to face the fact they probably won’t make it. Owners should not be held accountable because a guy who is never going to make it wants to continue to play baseball because it’s a lot cooler than a real job. Based on 3 years $131,000 + monthly comp and meals is roughly $50,000/year or about the same amount as the average American. A 16-18 year old on average makes about the same as MilB players in the lower levels and that does not consider the signing bonus.

 

You have also failed to consider the fact that teams paid out $245,806,800 in draft bonuses. Go ahead and complain how the money is distributed to b!%$h about the amount is ludicrous. This topic tends to elicit irrational thought processes for most people. Rushing to the conclusion that it’s the greedy owners fault is very parochial thinking. Why shouldn’t bonus amount be considered in compensation? The actually disparity where income is concerned is always portrayed without considering the compensation paid up front. That makes absolutely no sense. Perhaps more to the point is the fact the distribution of those bonus funds need to be reallocated. This problem could be very easily rectified by taking even 10% of the bonus money and reallocating it to MiLB wages. Take 20% and all MilB players would be doing great.

I typically side with the players when it comes to the issues that divide them. However... you are right. The players ain’t Saints either and they could reallocate when bargaining terms.

 

If this comes out of the owners pocket they will reallocate the expense. They will cut a minor league team or something of that nature to make up for the additional expense.

 

My main issue when it comes to support of the player is control. The 38th round draft pick isn’t getting a substantial bonus and if he plays well. He can’t take a bigger offer with Lake Elsinore. His only option is too change careers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think the big relevant point is the draft pick slot money and bonus pools for teams. No pick in the 10 rounds of the MLB draft in 2017 signed for less than a $131,100 bonus. That will carry you quite a ways even if you were to consider losing out on scholarships. For the un-drafted free agents who sign MiLB contracts, they're also usually also commanding big signing bonuses.

I don't think the concern here is about top 10 round draft picks. They probably make up maybe 15% of the minor league population? There are 30 rounds after that, and of course around 50% of minor leaguers are international guys not subject to the draft (and they probably have a similar breakdown as far as bonus disparity). I'm guessing a lot of those bonuses are of the token variety, like $1000.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Perhaps more to the point is the fact the distribution of those bonus funds need to be reallocated. This problem could be very easily rectified by taking even 10% of the bonus money and reallocating it to MiLB wages. Take 20% and all MilB players would be doing great.

But the bonus money pool is set rather arbitrarily by the teams already, I'm not sure why that should be accepted as any kind of limit. Paying a minimum wage for the minor league filler guys would probably total less than the amount that top bonuses are already artificially suppressed.

[Major League Ready]

 

I don't think the concern here is about top 10 round draft picks. They probably make up maybe 15% of the minor league population? There are 30 rounds after that, and of course around 50% of minor leaguers are international guys not subject to the draft (and they probably have a similar breakdown as far as bonus disparity). I'm guessing a lot of those bonuses are of the token variety, like $1000.

 

10 rounds or 40 rounds, if you look at a compensation program that pays out $246M/year in bonuses + monthy comp, housing and meal and determine there is a problem with what owners are spending, the problem is your assessment of the problem. The problem is how the money is distributed.  $246M divided by 1220 players (40 rounds + comp rounds) is an average of $201,639 per player.  If the average player has a 5 year career and plays 7 months out of the year that equates to $5,761 month plus the existing monthly comp, meals and housing. That’s at least $7,500 month.

 

Now, how about if the MLB players contribute equally?  Minor league players could be paid $15K month on average or if the players would contribute even half the amount of owners, MiLB players would make 11,400 month on average.  Pay them all the same or pay them on a scale depending on level or draft round. There are many variations that could be put in place to rectify the current inequity.  Regardless of what you might think is the most equitable, the problem is not MLB owner contribution to minor league salaries.

 

BTW… If the players contributed half of what the teams are already contributing in the form of bonuses, average pay would go down from 4.4M to 4.24M or double the average NFL salary or roughly 8 times the next highest baseball league in the world.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Would you blame Tom Cruise if a movie studio/theater chain refused to pay minimum wage to its ushers?

 

As a government/society, we should just mandate that all employees get at least minimum wage. If the top salaries in that industry come down as an indirect effect of that mandate, fine. But don't try to enshrine less than minimum wage as acceptable under law -- that's what is going on now, and that is 100% on the owners, NOT on MLB players.

[Lefty74]

Here are some details that provide a +/- 5% view on hours worked and pay for lower level MILB players. I have this detail due to the fact I have a close family relative that plays in MILB and I complete his taxes . Just received his W-2 for 2017 during which he started in Short Season A and moved to Full Season A part way through.

 

Total Comp = $5,800 which includes everything including salary and mileage for driving car to spring training.

Since he was in Short Season A to begin the year he was a part of extended spring training. There is NO pay for spring training or extended spring training. Player receives free housing and in his case $15 day meal money.

Total hours worked during spring training/extended spring training = approx 650 which is very conservative.

Total hours worked during Short/Full Season (early June to early Sept = approx 1200 prob conservative. Players receive meal money while on the road during the season and in lower levels often stay with host families. If they aren’t lucky enough to find a host family they share an apartment and associated cost with other players.

 

This works out to $3.13 per hour. If a player is on a full season team per hour pay is most likely $3.60-$4.00 per hour.

 

It’s very low pay for very long hours, but MLB/MILB has a long line of players who would love the swap places with those who get the chance. That’s the conundrum and probably the main reason MLB/MILB doesn’t feel a need to raise the pay. It is NOT that they can’t afford it!

[Tomj14]

 

Why are you using $15/hr for your math? The minimum wage is substantially lower than that in nearly every jurisdiction where these players earn their money.

I used $15 because that is the push for minimum wage.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

bonuses + monthy comp, housing and meal

Echoing Tomj14's post, I don't think housing is generally provided in the minors, except during spring training. They might get placed with host families, although that's often a volunteer service, not necessarily one that is paid for by the teams (and in fact, host families could even charge the players rent).

 

Likewise, meal compensation is just for spring training and road trips. They're largely on their own, except for what they can scavenge in the clubhouse around game times.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Here are some details that provide a +/- 5% view on hours worked and pay for lower level MILB players. I have this detail due to the fact I have a close family relative that plays in MILB and I complete his taxes .

Thanks for sharing the info! As someone who works a boring 9-5 job, I've long been interested in what the tax forms might look like for non-famous athletes/entertainers.

[Major League Ready]

 

Echoing Tomj14's post, I don't think housing is generally provided in the minors, except during spring training. They might get placed with host families, although that's a volunteer service, not one that is paid for by the teams (and in fact, host families could even charge the players rent).

 

Likewise, meal compensation is just for spring training and road trips. They're largely on their own, except for what they can scavenge in the clubhouse around game times.

I guess you are right but does it change the premise of the original post? It's still $7K/month without any participation from MLB players. Is the problem how much is being paid to MiLB players or is it how the money is distributed. Additionally, is it or is it not a problem that MLB salaries have gone up 2500% since the original CBA and MiLB salaries have gone up less than 100%?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I guess you are right but does it change the premise of the original post? It's still $7K/month without any participation from MLB players. Is the problem how much is being paid to MiLB players or is it how the money is distributed.

Even if the problem is distribution, the issue here is that owners want to cement, in law, a distribution that allows them to pay less than minimum wage. That's not on the players.

 

 

Additionally, is it or is it not a problem that MLB salaries have gone up 2500% since the original CBA and MiLB salaries have gone up less than 100%?

That's kind of apples and oranges. Movie star salaries have gone up a lot more than the salaries of bit players too. Doesn't mean it's right for movie studios to pay bit players less than minimum wage, or that the stars are to blame for the studios seeking legal permission to do that.

[Mike Sixel]

My position is not irrational, it is different than yours.

 

Simple question... Does it bother you owners are trying to cement in law that they can treat minor league players differently, less, than others are legally required to be treated?

[TheLeviathan]

Thanks for the post lefty.

 

$3 an hour enshrined in law. That's the issue here. And it is beyond reprehensible.

[Major League Ready]

 

Would you blame Tom Cruise if a movie studio/theater chain refused to pay minimum wage to its ushers?

 

As a government/society, we should just mandate that all employees get at least minimum wage. If the top salaries in that industry come down as an indirect effect of that mandate, fine. But don't try to enshrine less than minimum wage as acceptable under law -- that's what is going on now, and that is 100% on the owners, NOT on MLB players.

 

How do you come to the conclusion this is 100% the owners fault.  Clearly, the teams have increased player compensation astronomically.  Is it there fault the MLB players Union has elected to keep 100% of the increase.

 

The teams paid out $246M in draft bonuses last year. That's enough to give every player on a minor league contract a raise of roughly $200 per HR assuming 35 players on a roster and 50 hours required/week. Is there documentation that this allocation was insisted upon my MLB owners or was it the union or a joint decision.  Unless this allocation was insisted upon my the owners, how can you assert the wage issue is 100% the fault of MLB owners?  

 

Here is a simple solution. Take 10% of the bonus pool and reallocate it by giving every MiLB player an additional $20HR.

 

 

[Major League Ready]

 

Even if the problem is distribution, the issue here is that owners want to cement, in law, a distribution that allows them to pay less than minimum wage. That's not on the players.

 

 

That's kind of apples and oranges. Movie star salaries have gone up a lot more than the salaries of bit players too. Doesn't mean it's right for movie studios to pay bit players less than minimum wage, or that the stars are to blame for the studios seeking legal permission to do that.

 

You missed that one by a country mile. The industry/owners have paid out BIG-TIME. The very players who went through the minor league system have opted to share none of the dramatic increase with the players who now in that system. It amazes me that you can sit here and put this all on owners. Why can't the players take 1% less? That would be enough to pay every minor league player an additional $20hr.

[Mike Sixel]

 

You missed that one by a country mile. The industry/owners have paid out BIG-TIME. The very players who went through the minor league system have opted to share none of the dramatic increase with the players who now in that system. It amazes me that you can sit here and put this all on owners. Why can't the players take 1% less? That would be enough to pay every minor league player an additional $20hr.

 

I'm curious why the employees should take less, and share it with other employees.

 

MLB owners carry almost none of hte risk other business owners do. They get massive subsidies from the government in terms of stadium deals. Now they want a law passed making it legal to treat their employees differently than other employees are treated.

 

The MLBPA is not asking for laws to be passed, saying MLB players should get more of the pie.....

[Mike Sixel]

The reply I expected...

 

mike sixel
2:03 Would you consider giving up baseball if they succeed in getting Congress to pass a law allowing them to continue screwing over minor league players? What would ownership have to do to get you to stop watching, or decrease?

 

Keith Law
2:03 Giving up, no. I'll just continue to advocate for players.

[bean5302]

 

I don't think the concern here is about top 10 round draft picks. They probably make up maybe 15% of the minor league population? There are 30 rounds after that, and of course around 50% of minor leaguers are international guys not subject to the draft (and they probably have a similar breakdown as far as bonus disparity). I'm guessing a lot of those bonuses are of the token variety, like $1000.

 

Who signs in the 40th round? Just because players are drafted does not mean they're signed. No high schooler is signing outside the 10th round. So you have college players who might sign, but are unlikely to jeopardize a scholarship based on a 11+ round selection. That leaves you with college players losing eligibility or are graduating. Basically, anybody signing outside the 10th round knows they're an EXTREME long shot and are doing it for a single season of fun and novelty. "Hey, I was drafted by the Twins and played in the minors!"

 

Yes, there are players like Albert Pujols, but they're ultra rare. Here's an article about the best players drafted in each round after 5, by WAR. Zero of the players listed were drafted in the past 17 years.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/best-late-round-picks-in-draft-history/c-182980276

 

So while I'm still angered by MLB's actions and lobbying in this case, when the signing bonuses are considered, I'm a lot less sympathetic to the overall plight of 95% of MiLB players. It's not as outrageous as it seemed.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

How do you come to the conclusion this is 100% the owners fault.

The owners are the ones lobbying for the legal exemption to pay players less than minimum wage, which I thought was the subject of this thread. MLB players aren't doing that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Who signs in the 40th round? Just because players are drafted does not mean they're signed. No high schooler is signing outside the 10th round. So you have college players who might sign, but are unlikely to jeopardize a scholarship based on a 11+ round selection. That leaves you with college players losing eligibility or are graduating. Basically, anybody signing outside the 10th round knows they're an EXTREME long shot and are doing it for a single season of fun and novelty. "Hey, I was drafted by the Twins and played in the minors!"

 

Yes, there are players like Albert Pujols, but they're ultra rare. Here's an article about the best players drafted in each round after 5, by WAR. Zero of the players listed were drafted in the past 17 years.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/best-late-round-picks-in-draft-history/c-182980276

 

So while I'm still angered by MLB's actions and lobbying in this case, when the signing bonuses are considered, I'm a lot less sympathetic to the overall plight of 95% of MiLB players. It's not as outrageous as it seemed.

95% seems high. Remember, 50% of minor leaguers don't even come through the draft, they are international signings. And they are most definitely not colleges graduates "doing it for a single season of fun and novelty" (although even they don't deserve less than minimum wage for that season of employment).

[jimbo92107]

 

Wouldn't it be amazing if the players and the players union...you know...the union that fights for player's rights and salaries...the same players who themselves came up through the minor leagues...would fight for better wages than currently exist?

Of course, MLB teams would COMPLETELY respect their right to free speech... and their right to get blackballed by the league. Unless you think that doesn't happen anymore Colin Kaepernick...

 

Speaking of which, when are we going to pass an amendment to the constitution limiting personal wealth to a million dollars? That would even things out quite a bit. ;-)

[nicksaviking]

 

10 rounds or 40 rounds, if you look at a compensation program that pays out $246M/year in bonuses + monthy comp, housing and meal and determine there is a problem with what owners are spending, the problem is your assessment of the problem. The problem is how the money is distributed.  $246M divided by 1220 players (40 rounds + comp rounds) is an average of $201,639 per player.  If the average player has a 5 year career and plays 7 months out of the year that equates to $5,761 month plus the existing monthly comp, meals and housing. That’s at least $7,500 month.

 

Now, how about if the MLB players contribute equally?  Minor league players could be paid $15K month on average or if the players would contribute even half the amount of owners, MiLB players would make 11,400 month on average.  Pay them all the same or pay them on a scale depending on level or draft round. There are many variations that could be put in place to rectify the current inequity.  Regardless of what you might think is the most equitable, the problem is not MLB owner contribution to minor league salaries.

 

BTW… If the players contributed half of what the teams are already contributing in the form of bonuses, average pay would go down from 4.4M to 4.24M or double the average NFL salary or roughly 8 times the next highest baseball league in the world.

 

 

How is that different than the issues with Walmart not paying their cashiers a livable wage? Sure, Walmart probably has a hefty salary pool which they pay out disproportionately to the managers. We still need to get those cashiers and those 30th round draft picks a legit income. 

[bean5302]

 

95% seems high. Remember, 50% of minor leaguers don't even come through the draft, they are international signings. And they are most definitely not colleges graduates "doing it for a single season of fun and novelty" (although even they don't deserve less than minimum wage for that season of employment).

 

International signings get signing bonuses. If MLB scouts are interested in some 16 year old kid playing baseball in the Dominican, that kid is getting a signing bonus, and it's going to be enormous in value compared to what they would make in their home country.

 

Kennys Vargas, for example, earned a 100,000 US Dollar signing bonus as an un-drafted, amateur international free agent (about 250,000 of value in the Dominican). Vargas was NOT heavily scouted prior to the Twins noticing him.

 

Max Kepler, for example, earned a 775,000 US Dollar signing bonus as an un-drafted (pre draft eligible) amateur international free agent.

 

International free agent signings are part of the 95%.

[Mike Sixel]

International signings get signing bonuses. If MLB scouts are interested in some 16 year old kid playing baseball in the Dominican, that kid is getting a signing bonus, and it's going to be enormous in value compared to what they would make in their home country.

 

Kennys Vargas, for example, earned a 100,000 US Dollar signing bonus as an un-drafted, amateur international free agent (about 250,000 of value in the Dominican). Vargas was NOT heavily scouted prior to the Twins noticing him.

 

Max Kepler, for example, earned a 775,000 US Dollar signing bonus as an un-drafted (pre draft eligible) amateur international free agent.

 

International free agent signings are part of the 95%.

The big ones are... But a lot of them are not.

[Otto von Ballpark]

International signings get signing bonuses. If MLB scouts are interested in some 16 year old kid playing baseball in the Dominican, that kid is getting a signing bonus, and it's going to be enormous in value compared to what they would make in their home country.

 

Kennys Vargas, for example, earned a 100,000 US Dollar signing bonus as an un-drafted, amateur international free agent (about 250,000 of value in the Dominican). Vargas was NOT heavily scouted prior to the Twins noticing him.

 

Max Kepler, for example, earned a 775,000 US Dollar signing bonus as an un-drafted (pre draft eligible) amateur international free agent.

 

International free agent signings are part of the 95%.

Vargas is from Puerto Rico, he wasn't an "international free agent." He was eligible for the US draft, but just went undrafted.

 

And I never meant to imply that international amateurs can't get signing bonuses, but just like the draft, the bottom guys don't make nearly as much as the top guys. Kepler was the international equivalent of a 1st round pick. And your excuse about draft rounds 10-40 being "college guys having fun for a year" doesn't apply to their international equivalents -- the Twins aren't doling out $100k bonuses to 40+ international guys every year. Plenty of international guys get a token bonus of a couple thousand (which they have to split with their buscones, which is a whole other issue).

[old nurse]

Laws of unintended consequences. If you make it a law to pay the players minimum wage the money would come from somewhere. It would depend on the team. One less rookie league team perhaps. Less players carried on the remaining rookie league teams. Nothing says they have to carry the limit. Likely less indy ball teams.  It would not effect the higher profit teams as much as the lower teams. Perhaps a rise in leagues like the Northwoods as players might want to give it a couple more shots to get noticed. Money paid out in the draft, international free agents is collectively bargained. As the last agreement was hard enough to reach, I would not see them reopen it early.  For the most part if your signing bonus was not enough for the draftee  to live on for 4 years they might want to think about going to college or finish their degree and use it.

[old nurse]

 

 

95% seems high. Remember, 50% of minor leaguers don't even come through the draft, they are international signings. And they are most definitely not colleges graduates "doing it for a single season of fun and novelty" (although even they don't deserve less than minimum wage for that season of employment).

Where do you get the 50% number from? At the major league level it is under 30%

[Otto von Ballpark]

Where do you get the 50% number from? At the major league level it is under 30%

The percentage is much higher in the minors:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/7779279/percentage-foreign-major-league-baseball-players-rises

[Otto von Ballpark]

Laws of unintended consequences. If you make it a law to pay the players minimum wage the money would come from somewhere. It would depend on the team. One less rookie league team perhaps. Less players carried on the remaining rookie league teams. Nothing says they have to carry the limit. Likely less indy ball teams. It would not effect the higher profit teams as much as the lower teams. Perhaps a rise in leagues like the Northwoods as players might want to give it a couple more shots to get noticed.

No problem with that here. If a business can't sustain itself while paying its enployees minimum wage, it makes sense that it should be reconfigured. Fewer minor league teams could mean more attention for actual amateur teams, town ball teams, etc.

 

Although I wonder if the Northwoods League shouldn't have to pay too? Those owners are profiting on the backs of amateurs and silly NCAA rules.

[gil4]

 

How much of a raise in salary do they need to meet the thresholds? It's hardly anything in the world of MLB money, as has been explained over an over. $15 an hour is 600 dollars a week. That's what, not even double the pittance they get paid now? ($~1600/month on average I believe?) And only for half the year, mind you? 

 

Why they are fighting this so hard, and pulling out reasons like this to do so, absolutely baffles me.

 

I think part of the issue is what is included as working hours. Does the bus ride count? Does showing up early for extra work in the cage count? 

​Another issue could be the varying nuances of minimum wage law from state to state, and even from city to city. It has never been an issue before because nobody has ever sued before. Now they have. 

​I don't know all the details of the law that is being attached, but it sounds like all it really does is maintain the status quo. I don't have a problem with it. If pay was an issue, supply and demand would sort it out.

​The real issue I have is the minor league players being bound by a CBA in which they had no say and no representation. If you want to address the pay issue, start there.