Where is Revere Most Valuable?

[Mike Sixel]

revere's best position is 4th OFer right now.

[Turd Furgeson]

Yeah, Benson is only a couple months older than Revere, he just started in the minors a year before he did. I still don't get though, why he's too talented to give up on, and people have already given up on Revere.

 

If nothing else, Revere is a guy who BROKE HIS FACE and was back playing in a manner of weeks. Bloggers have constantly been bitching that we need more guys who won't take half the season off because of a stubbed toe. Revere throws his whole body into the game, and fights like hell to get back when he's hurt. Plus, as a fan, it's gonna be a helluva lot more exciting to see Revere diving for balls and stealing bases than seeing Plouffe try to get more extra base hits than he gives up in the field.

It's a matter of what Revere's skills will bring. He could potentially be a .300 hitter at the Major League level, but he's not going to have a very high on base percentage and his slugging percentage will most likely always be below .400. He should steal a lot of bases but the potential of that skill is negated somewhat because he won't be able to get on base at a high rate. As a defender, his arm is really bad. You really can't understate it. His range is awesome but you do have to have an arm, and I think left field is ideally Revere's position. Whereas, I could see Benson playing any position in the outfield with effectiveness.

[Seth Stohs]

I do find it interesting that Joe Benson is playing exclusively in CF this spring. To me, Revere isn't the kind of player that would make me move Span, but Benson would be.

[Thrylos]

Seth, I think that they want to give Revere as many reps as possible at LF so they would not play him at CF. Based on the few games that Benson played at CF, I think that he is probably projecting to be a corner OF range and route-wise. Will be interesting to see whether he or Mastroianni (if both in AAA) will start at center for Rochester.

[Raven]

I think today's game showed what Benson brings to centerfield....and what Revere doesn't - an arm. Last week I watched Revere bobble a grounder in left and try to quickly throw it to 3rd when the runner tried to advance. I was surprised at the rainbow throw that was way off target. I can't see good things happening if he was in center. Even left field is going to be an adventure.

[Fanatic Jack]

ShaneWahl,

 

My mistake Joe Benson is 24 and will start his first full season at Rochester in 2012. This should tell you all you need to know about his developement? Superstar players would be in the big leagues by now (See Jason Heyward, Evan Longoria, Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden for more). Benson could become a great player but there is no doubt his development is slower than most 5-tool superstars. He also still struggles to make contact and strikesout way too often. I sure hope this is the year he finally comes to fruition. However, I will not hold my breath!!

[Seth Stohs]

Seth, I think that they want to give Revere as many reps as possible at LF so they would not play him at CF. Based on the few games that Benson played at CF, I think that he is probably projecting to be a corner OF range and route-wise. Will be interesting to see whether he or Mastroianni (if both in AAA) will start at center for Rochester.

Thrylos, I can certainly agree with you on why Revere is playing in LF, for reps. That makes sense. But Benson's range is CF is not much less than Revere's, and his route-running is much better than Revere's. Arms aren't even comparable. Benson has primarily played CF in all but one of his minor league seasons. Last year, he played in CF 85 of 102 games. He's definitely a CF first. But he's such a great athlete, he can also play RF. Last year with the Twins was the first time he got much time in LF.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I like Benson... not quite sure I'd use the term "superstar" to describe him. He's got potential to be an above average player at any OF position, so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets an allstar game or two over his career if things pan out, but I dont' think he's a Mauer, Griffey JR, Longoria, etc. If I was a betting man, he'll basically put up Cuddyer offensive numbers with a much better defense.... that's a pretty good player, but not a superstar.

[Seth Stohs]

"If I was a betting man, he'll basically put up Cuddyer offensive numbers with a much better defense.... that's a pretty good player, but not a superstar."

 

If he does that, Twins fans should be absolutely thrilled!! I'd take that any day!

[Fanatic Jack]

Seth,

 

I agree with you!! Michael Cuddyer type production would be fantastic. I believe that Ryan was looking towards the future and viewed Benson as somebody who could replace Cuddyer in the outfield. I love his athletic ability but can he make the improvements needed to be an everyday player? I sure hope so because he is fun to watch. He is not afraid of making mistakes and plays the outfield (Like Revere) with no fear.

[StormJH1]

I think this is a very legitimate question, and one that needs more attention. To treat Revere like a left fielder basically sets him up for a career as a 4th outfielder. If not for his arm, I'd be willing to give him center field and just deal with the sucky bat. But I have a feeling we're going to see more than a few bloop singles to the right portion of CF leading to runner's on first taking the turn and heading to 3rd. Not to mention sac flys and Revere trying to get it back to the cutoff man from the warning track. Seriously, they should just have him it about 80 feet to Willigham and let him do the rest of the work...Revere's arm is THAT bad.

 

But if you put him in LF and Span in CF, that DOES hurt your offense. Guys like Ryan Braun, (pre-Chicago) Adam Dunn, and Willingham can play LF, and those guys are legit run producers. We're already "punting" at high run production at SS, 2B, and maybe even 3B if Valencia doesn't figure it out. While I don't want the defense to suck, at some point, we need to treat these positions more like the Detroit Tigers and less like the Seattle Mariners.

[Mike Sixel]

Storm, what's your point on the hurting offense? If Revere and Span are both on the field, what difference (offensively) does it make whether one plays CF or LF? None. Now, playing Revere at all is punting offense, imo, which is why he should be a 4th OFer on this team (assuming Plouffe can catch the ball at all).

[Fanatic Jack]

Mike Wants Wins,

 

Have you watched any spring training games at all. Plouffe can't catch the ball and that is a fact. He is a DH at best and will be waived by the middle of the year if Benson is ready.

[diehardtwinsfan]

"If I was a betting man, he'll basically put up Cuddyer offensive numbers with a much better defense.... that's a pretty good player, but not a superstar."

 

If he does that, Twins fans should be absolutely thrilled!! I'd take that any day!

as would I... that's no superstar though, unless he's a CF... that's just a really nice cost-controlled piece in our lineup. I think the future Twins OF looks pretty good. The IF with Michael, Dozier, Sano, and Parmalee should be decent as well... pitching on the other hand....

[Shane Wahl]

Plouffe has actually been fine in LF in ST. The worry now is probably more about his bat. One cannot seriously maintain that Plouffe was more valuable to the Twins last year than Revere. The ideal situation for 2012 is CLEARLY a platoon of Revere and Plouffe in LF. There is no doubt about this. Except, probably, in Gardy's mind. I am sure Terry Ryan is aware, however, so I have hope there.

 

I would assume that Revere is not in the long term plans if Tosoni, Benson, and Hicks pan out.

[Fanatic Jack]

This is the longest running thread at Twins Daily!! I believe Revere will take another step forward in his game this season. However, he still has no power, a weak arm, and struggles to get on base. His biggest value to the Twins is his ablity to catch everything in the outfield. Why would you take away one of his strengths by putting him in left field. Revere is most valuable in CF, Span in RF, and Willingham in LF. Plouffe can platoon with all three outfielders to give them days off. He can DH on other days to keep his bat in the lineup. Plouffe will most likely get between 450-500 at bats in 2012.

[Steve Lein]

I fail to see how playing Revere in LF dramatically takes away his "strength" of running down fly balls, he's not ridiculously better than Span at it, who is also very good, and that would be the only reason I'd move Span out of there. While Revere may run down a few more fly ball's over the course of the season, I'd bet the difference between the runs he'd save with range over Span (if any) would be more than cancelled out by the runs he gives up with that arm in CF. I'm really confused as to why this is such a big issue with so many people.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I fail to see how playing Revere in LF dramatically takes away his "strength" of running down fly balls, he's not ridiculously better than Span at it, who is also very good, and that would be the only reason I'd move Span out of there. While Revere may run down a few more fly ball's over the course of the season, I'd bet the difference between the runs he'd save with range over Span (if any) would be more than cancelled out by the runs he gives up with that arm in CF. I'm really confused as to why this is such a big issue with so many people.

pretty much this.

[StormJH1]

Storm, what's your point on the hurting offense? If Revere and Span are both on the field, what difference (offensively) does it make whether one plays CF or LF? None. Now, playing Revere at all is punting offense, imo, which is why he should be a 4th OFer on this team (assuming Plouffe can catch the ball at all).

My point was exactly the opposite...Revere and Span probably should NOT both be on the field. There were grumblings early out of spring training that Plouffe had a chance at winning the RF job, which puts Willingham back to his more familiar spot in LF. I don't know if that will be the case or not, but even if that did happen, you can't just pencil in Span for 150 games this year as if there's no reason to worry about his health.

 

With the roster we have, I think some type of Doumit/Plouffe platoon in RF, Willingham in LF and Span in CF (unless injuries force Revere to take over) gives us the best chance of actually scoring runs this year. I recognize that Revere was drafted at a time when the organization had all but given up on Span (2007), but it DOES matter if Revere is now supposed to be a starting LF, and you're treating him as such instead of trying to draft or acquire a legitimate corner outfielder. We can only hope we'll get that some day in the form of Hicks, Arcia, Sano (if he moves to the OF), etc.

[StormJH1]

I fail to see how playing Revere in LF dramatically takes away his "strength" of running down fly balls, he's not ridiculously better than Span at it, who is also very good, and that would be the only reason I'd move Span out of there. While Revere may run down a few more fly ball's over the course of the season, I'd bet the difference between the runs he'd save with range over Span (if any) would be more than cancelled out by the runs he gives up with that arm in CF. I'm really confused as to why this is such a big issue with so many people.

For the most part I totally agree with you...Revere and Span in center are probably a draw because Revere's range is offset by his arm.

 

The point of the thread is "Where is Revere most valuable?", and I guess what I'm arguing is "BENCH", or "Pinch runner/Defensive Replacement". A healthy Span has a much higher ceiling than Revere. Either of them would probably be fine as the CF, but playing both of them means we aren't even trying for power at two of the three OF positions. And it's not like we have Boston's infield in terms of power, either.

[whydidnt]

Where did all the love for Plouffe come from? He has done nothing yet to show he can hit the way a corner OF should hit, yet everyone is penciling him as a solution, or even a DH. Yes he hit a few HRs last year, but really that was the first sign of life from his bat, and he's been in the system a long time. Revere does not have any power, I get that, but his speed can be a weapon, if utilized properly. From my perspective the biggest issue is that we really have no depth/options in the OF this year. If Span's sore neck is related to his concussion and he's shut down for a period, does anyone really want to go into the year with an OF of Plouffe, Revere and Willingham? That's one legit hitter in the OF and two huge question marks, and no impact players in the minors ready to step in. We're all hoping Benson can step up this year, but really he needs time in AAA to refine his approach. I'd be excited about Plouffe's offensive potential if he was still a middle infielder, but there's nothing in his past to suggest he's going to hit enough to be an everyday corner OF on a winning team.

[Shane Wahl]

To reiterate, for 2012, Ben Revere's best value is as a LF platoon player (batting ninth) who serves as a late-inning pinch runner and defensive replacement, and a backup CF.

 

LF at Target Field is very spacious and Revere makes that position dramatically better. RF is smaller and requires a strong throwing arm. Span's speed is lost there and his arm is not a RF arm.

 

Of course this can change depending on his performance (strange things like hitting lefties better than righties, throwing a football (this is just a STUPID idea, in my view---they require different throwing motions, grips, etc.--he should be throwing baseballs) somehow miraculously bolsters arm strength (seriously, whose idea was that?), he bats .320+ and learns to take walks at a decent rate, etc.). And I don't think Ben Revere is the long-term solution in LF. We had better hope not. It would mean that Tosoni, Benson, Hicks, and Arcia basically all couldn't stick in the majors (Maybe if Hicks sticks as Span's replacement, Revere is left isn't terrible).

 

I think people shouldn't complain too much. We will get to watch Ben Revere in the field and on the bases and not Delmon Young.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

To reiterate, for 2012, Ben Revere's best value is as a LF platoon player (batting ninth) who serves as a late-inning pinch runner and defensive replacement, and a backup CF.

 

LF at Target Field is very spacious and Revere makes that position dramatically better. RF is smaller and requires a strong throwing arm. Span's speed is lost there and his arm is not a RF arm.

 

Of course this can change depending on his performance (strange things like hitting lefties better than righties, throwing a football (this is just a STUPID idea, in my view---they require different throwing motions, grips, etc.--he should be throwing baseballs) somehow miraculously bolsters arm strength (seriously, whose idea was that?), he bats .320+ and learns to take walks at a decent rate, etc.). And I don't think Ben Revere is the long-term solution in LF. We had better hope not. It would mean that Tosoni, Benson, Hicks, and Arcia basically all couldn't stick in the majors (Maybe if Hicks sticks as Span's replacement, Revere is left isn't terrible).

 

I think people shouldn't complain too much. We will get to watch Ben Revere in the field and on the bases and not Delmon Young.

Also, with Revere in LF, and Span in center... They can cheat towards RF to make up for Willingham's lack of speed.

 

Also, since I think Span is the best long-term option in centerfield, I think it's his position to lose.

[Neinstein]

Where is Revere most valuable?

Maybe showing his versatility in the outfield for much of 2012 will produce a better trade value down the road.

Playing him mostly in LF might help others forget about his weak arm.

[terencemann]

Also, with Revere in LF, and Span in center... They can cheat towards RF to make up for Willingham's lack of speed.

 

Also, since I think Span is the best long-term option in center-field, I think it's his position to lose.

I agree completely that, long-term, Span is much more likely to stick as the every-day center fielder than Revere due to Revere's limitations with the bat and his arm. Span is a very good center fielder and Revere doesn't provide a lot of improvement out there. What the Twins would really miss would be the difference between Span and Revere's arm in center.

 

I still hold out hope that Hicks can turn things around and learn to hit a little. An outfield of Span-Hicks-Benson could be a really good thing. I think that's where the team is heading in the short-run (pending Hicks' development) and so there's no reason to get too attached to Revere.

[Brandon Warne]

Platooning with Plouffe in left and batting ninth.

 

Don't expect that Span-Hicks-Benson OF anytime soon. Willingham is inked for 3 years.

[Shane Wahl]

If that OF is ready by 2014, Willingham will be the DH.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

I agree completely that, long-term, Span is much more likely to stick as the every-day center fielder than Revere due to Revere's limitations with the bat and his arm. Span is a very good center fielder and Revere doesn't provide a lot of improvement out there. What the Twins would really miss would be the difference between Span and Revere's arm in center.

 

I still hold out hope that Hicks can turn things around and learn to hit a little. An outfield of Span-Hicks-Benson could be a really good thing. I think that's where the team is heading in the short-run (pending Hicks' development) and so there's no reason to get too attached to Revere.

Don't forget about Arcia. The Twins have some good high end outfield talent.

 

Also, according to a twitter convo i had with lavelle a while back, if Sano can't stick in the infield they will try him in LF. He made it clear there were no plans to move Sano to LF at the moment, but as far as progression goes that's the next step. I still believe Sano can be a 3rd baseman. If Miguel Cabrera can still play there... it's hard to argue Sano will be too big for the position.

[coachingkid]

Revere is a fourth outfielder. Never will be a five tool player. Has speed and defense maybe average after a year or two so right now a two tool maybe becomes a three tool player. Really can we build a future great outfield with a two or three tool player???