Article: Report From The Fort: Gibson's Arbitration

[John Bonnes]

FT. MYERS - Twins fans can be forgiven for not paying much attention to the arbitration process. The Twins haven’t gone to arbitration with any player since 2006, when they lost to Kyle Lohse. But that changed this year, and it was odd; the Twins went to arbitration over a fairly small amount, just $355,000.

 

Sources within the Twins suggest that they went to arbitration not because they couldn’t reach an agreement with Kyle Gibson, but because they organization wanted the experience of going through arbitration under the new management team. Doing so also helps draw a line in the sand with regard to negotiations. Players’ agents have mocked the Twins perceived unwillingness (or inability) to risk arbitration.One could argue that if an organization was trying to stress test their arbitration process, Gibson’s case provided an ideal scenario. It wasn’t for much money and Gibson seems like a level-headed enough fellow that he wouldn’t take it personally. And he didn’t.

 

“I didn’t hear anything or go through anything that I didn’t expect,” replied Gibson when I asked him what it was like to be in the room. ”I knew coming off a below average year that I had half of a year that wasn’t as good, and a second half that I was probably as good as I’ve ever been. So I knew that the process was going to highlight the first half where I wasn’t very good, and we were going to try to highlight the second half.

 

Twins CBO Derek Falvey, GM Thad Levine or manager Paul Molitor were not the ones doing the highlighting. The Twins side included Rob Antony and legal counsel, including representatives from Major League Baseball, presumably to play The Heavy. According to Gibson, they’re the most frontal about his performance. “The Commissioner’s Office does most of the hard-hitting and makes most of the statements that the players aren’t too excited about,” says Gibson.

 

One concern that fans often express is that the arbitration process can dredge up a lot of negative feelings between the club and the player. In this instance, that doesn’t seem to be the case. “[The Twins] were respectful,” says Gibson. “They said things that I expected them to say. And I walked out of there and shook Rob Antony’s hand.”

 

In arbitration, the team and the player each submit an amount they think the player should be paid and the arbiter MUST pick one of the amounts; they cannot pick a midpoint or any other amount. The arbiter does this by comparing the player to other players with similar tenure and performance that play the same position. They then judge where the player is in relation to those other players and picks which number is the closest. In this case, this key player that both sides focused on was pitcher Wily Peralta.

 

In the previous offseason, Peralta has very similar service time as Gibson and was coming off a similar year. Peralta was 7-11 with a 4.86 ERA. Gibson’s record last year was 12-10 with a 5.07 ERA. Both struggled mightily in the first half of the year, spent some time in the minors, and had a great finishing kick to their year. Peralta agreed to a $4.275M contract that offseason with the Brewers.

 

With that many similarities, it’s no surprise that the Twins and Gibson’s numbers were close; they both picked numbers close to Peralta’s salary. The Twins filed at $4.2M, just $75,000 less than Peralta’s amount. Gibson’s ask was $4.55M, which is $280,000 more than Peralta made. That means it wasn’t enough for Gibson’s team to show that he was better than Peralta; he had to show he was about $100,000 better than Peralta for his number to be the closer of the two.

 

Gibson lost that case. He isn’t too broken up about it. “Yeah, I lost arbitration but you still go from this number to that number and you still have a job. And you play again this year,” he says. “I don’t view it as such a negative process as it can be.”

 

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[ashbury]

Very enlightening. I didn't understand why they had to go to arbitration. Now I do.

[ewen21]

At one point last year I could hardly bring myself to watch a Kyle Gibson start.  He is like Nick Blackburn 2.0

[Dman]

I guess I never understood how negative the Arb process could be.  It probably was good the Twins went through it since they hadn't done it in quite some time.

[Blake]

Interesting read. Thanks.

[nicksaviking]

Nice article John, so many take aways. Very interesting that this was basically practice for the front office. I knew we hadn't gone through much arbitration but I hadn't realized the Twins were mocked in league circles for their avoidance of the process. It's not surprising I guess, they always did seem to stress not upsetting the apple cart. Not that that's necessarily bad. With all these young guys coming up and no extension offers as of yet, the new crew likely will need to be quite familiar with arbitration.

 

It's also interesting that the guys dishing dirt on the player on behalf of the organization are actually league employees, not Twins employees. That was a wise move by whomever came up with that idea.

[Doctor Wu]

Gotta give Gibson credit for having a good attitude and putting such a difficult process in perspective. Hope he can put up those better second-half numbers the entire season this year.

[rdehring]

My thoughts exactly, John.  That being that the Twins went thru this for experience.  

 

What I found interesting in your article was the comment about the league's role.  When was it that the Commissioner was a neutral party in the game.  He had a role as the arbitrator between the two sides, acting in the best interest of the game.  I think it was that way a long time ago.  Do you know when it changed?

[Thebigalguy]

Thanks for the enlightening article. In Gibson's case, it helps that he's paid 4.2 mil, not too shabby for a 5.07 ERA. Even if it's apples to oranges, Dozier only gets 5 mil. Given his positive attitude, I'm hoping it's an incentive to keep doing what he did in the second half of last season. His inconsistency has been maddening at times, especially since I've seen him pitch some gems at his best.

[Shaitan]

 

FT. MYERS - Twins fans can be forgiven for not paying much attention to the arbitration process. The Twins haven’t gone to arbitration with any player since 2006, when they lost to Kyle Lohse. But that changed this year, and it was odd; the Twins went to arbitration over a fairly small amount, just $355,000.

Sources within the Twins suggest that they went to arbitration not because they couldn’t reach an agreement with Kyle Gibson, but because they organization wanted the experience of going through arbitration under the new management team. Doing so also helps draw a line in the sand with regard to negotiations. Players’ agents have mocked the Twins perceived unwillingness (or inability) to risk arbitration.One could argue that if an organization was trying to stress test their arbitration process, Gibson’s case provided an ideal scenario. It wasn’t for much money and Gibson seems like a level-headed enough fellow that he wouldn’t take it personally. And he didn’t.

 

I find this (bold) idea bizarre. Why would an agent mock an employer for preferring to reach agreements with their clients? How could that possibly be a negative. If agents previously thought the Twins' wouldn't draw a firm line, isn't that a good thing for their clients?

 

To nitpick, I'd happily go to court if it meant I could get "a fairly small amount, just $355,000." In any economic realm, that's still a 7% difference of income, which is a pretty big deal. Though in this case, it would probably just cover agent fees for the process.

[spanman2]

Refreshing to hear a player realize how fortunate they are to be in the position of playing ball for a living.  All MLB players are extremely talented for certain.  However my thought is some of them lose sight of the privilege they have and earned by their talents in being paid to play baseball.  Gibby seems to have that figured out.  As far as how much they are paid you cant fault any of them for trying to maximize what their employer is willing to pay them.  It seems like insane amounts of money at times but that is how the game is played.  Here is to Gibson having a full year in '18 of second half '17 Gibson.  WIN TWINS. 

[ashbury]

I find this (bold) idea bizarre. Why would an agent mock an employer for preferring to reach agreements with their clients? How could that possibly be a negative. If agents previously thought the Twins' wouldn't draw a firm line, isn't that a good thing for their clients?

 

To nitpick, I'd happily go to court if it meant I could get "a fairly small amount, just $355,000." In any economic realm, that's still a 7% difference of income, which is a pretty big deal. Though in this case, it would probably just cover agent fees for the process.

I'm surprised you're surprised. Maybe you are assuming the wording meant it was to their faces - I took it to mean behind their backs but word eventually got to them. There are all kinds of areas in life where poor negotiators get made fun of behind their backs. Starting in middle school, I guess.

[ashbury]

Very enlightening. I didn't understand why they had to go to arbitration. Now I do.

I should have added: there's the old quip, "don't quit your day job." John Bonnes probably should quit his. I want more of this.

[clutterheart]

These reports/interviews/insights are really good.  I can't think of a time I have ever read a player discussing the arbitration process before.  What a great change from the typical spring coverage. 

 

thanks!

[Darius]

Good look behind the curtain there.

 

In regards to the comment comparing Gibson to Blackburn, and hardly being able to watch him pitch:

 

Did you notice Gibson was the best starter on the staff in the second half? In August and September he had about a 3.6 ERA with 8.5 K/9 and 15 walks and 6 quality starts in about 63 innings. He was also pretty good in June and July, with two bad games in 10 starts hurting him (6 ER and 7 ER in 10 total innings).

 

The Twins literally wouldn't have made the playoffs without him after Santana fell off the table.

 

He's not going to win a Cy Young, and had struggled in the past. But, he is showing signs of turning into a pretty good pitcher.

[Shaitan]

 

I'm surprised you're surprised. Maybe you are assuming the wording meant it was to their faces - I took it to mean behind their backs but word eventually got to them. There are all kinds of areas in life where poor negotiators get made fun of behind their backs. Starting in middle school, I guess.

 

Is preferring to negotiate instead of taking a hardline stance, "poor" negotiation? I'd argue the opposite. Refusal to negotiate isn't negotiation at all.

[ashbury]

Is preferring to negotiate instead of taking a hardline stance, "poor" negotiation? I'd argue the opposite. Refusal to negotiate isn't negotiation at all.

Reaching arbitration doesn't imply a refusal to negotiate. Indeed it's another form of negotiation, coming after the first rounds didn't reach agreement, assisted by an arbitrator who follows certain rigid rules. Maybe Bonnes will circle back here to amplify a bit on what he meant by "Players’ agents have mocked the Twins perceived unwillingness (or inability) to risk arbitration", and maybe my characterization that they were viewed as "poor" negotiators was going too far; to me it indicated a lack of conviction by the team as to their own numbers, from the POV of those agents.

[Shaitan]

 

Reaching arbitration doesn't imply a refusal to negotiate. Indeed it's another form of negotiation, coming after the first rounds didn't reach agreement, assisted by an arbitrator who follows certain rigid rules. Maybe Bonnes will circle back here to amplify a bit on what he meant by "Players’ agents have mocked the Twins perceived unwillingness (or inability) to risk arbitration", and maybe my characterization that they were viewed as "poor" negotiators was going too far; to me it indicated a lack of conviction by the team as to their own numbers, from the POV of those agents.

 

That's not my understanding of arbitration. I'm thinking of arbitration outside of MLB, but usually the arbitrator is the decision maker. He or she is not assisting a negotiation between two parties, but brokering a third party deal. Neither player nor team negotiates. They've traded that right to have a so-called neutral third party make the decision instead.

[ashbury]

An extension of the negotiation process, then. The negotiations that lead up to it may be key. And I believe that there is time to come to an agreement once both parties submit their offers to the arbitrator. It's more of a spectrum, than a refusal to negotiate.

 

Being overly risk averse when arbitration approaches, as John Bonnes seemed to be saying was the word on the street, would not be good negotiating tactics. Neither would the other extreme, but that wasn't the topic John brought up.

[yarnivek1972]

I still don’t believe Gibson has “turned things around”. I’ll believe it when he actually posts a sub 5 ERA for an entire season.

 

I made the point last year that Gibson’s “turnaround” coincided with him facing some of the worst offensive teams in MLB down the stretch. Granted, he fared better against those dregs than other Twins starters, but I still want to see him pitch well against a half way decent offense a few times in a row before declaring him an asset. I was surprised he was tendered for 2017 and more surprised for this year, even given the lack of viable internal options.

 

Kyle Gibson couldn’t have compiled two more similar seasons back to back if he tried. The likely conclusion is that is simply what he is IMO.

[Kirbek]

Kyle Gibson is a 10/10 human.  If he can pitch like he did in the last half of last year, the Twins have a gem and a bargain.

[laloesch]

 

Kyle Gibson is a 10/10 human.  If he can pitch like he did in the last half of last year, the Twins have a gem and a bargain.

 

Well he's off to a decent start in spring training.  Could be a good sign.  We shall see.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Well he's off to a decent start in spring training.  Could be a good sign.  We shall see.

 

he pitched quite well last year in ST too...and then April/May happened. Hopefully, he picks up where he left off last year. That alone is worth a few wins if he can pitch like the second half for a full season.

[bird]

 

These reports/interviews/insights are really good.  I can't think of a time I have ever read a player discussing the arbitration process before.  What a great change from the typical spring coverage. 

 

thanks!

 

 

If you get a chance, John, maybe you can pull LaVelle away from doing his annual restaurant review and have him read this. I know he writes for a different audience, but still...glad you TD'ers are such standouts.

[nicksaviking]

As long as he keeps using his four seamer to try to miss bats and limits his sinker usage like he did at the end of last year, I'll be satisfied that we've seen the best possible pitcher he can be. If it still doesn't work out with that changed approach they can cut ties with him and not have to wonder "what if?"