Will the Twins ever sign a top free agent or are we all just wasting our time?

[KirbyDome89]

 

 He was given an offer not seen EVER by this franchise.  

That's irrelevant. The Twins were competing against offers made by other clubs this offseason, not past offers issued by the franchise. 

[ewen21]

 

Oh, come on, really?

I never thought Darvish would sign here and have been pretty tired of how the off-season has played out. Throughout this whole ... thing ... I’ve been pretty clear on that without emotional screaming or emotional screaming rebuttals. I’m hardly screaming about anything other than stating an opinion. However, what this team does need is a front-end starter. I do think that Darvish would have provided that for the first 2-3 years of whatever contract he signed, if he had signed with us. I don’t think Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta will provide us with that at all. I think Lynn or Cobb will be very good in our rotation for 2-3 years (not 4) but I don’t think either of them will be the front-end starter that I think we need. And Arrieta? No thank you. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with even only 2 yrs on him. I appreciate you think differently but stop the screaming otherwise.

 

I am sorry, but I don't see where Darvish is more durable than Lynn or Cobb.  Darvish is a little older than both and has a lot more pitches on that arm than the other two

http://mopupduty.com/yu-darvish-final-pitch-count-1231/

 

[bcs4]

 

Oh, come on, really?

I never thought Darvish would sign here and have been pretty tired of how the off-season has played out. Throughout this whole ... thing ... I’ve been pretty clear on that without emotional screaming or emotional screaming rebuttals. I’m hardly screaming about anything other than stating an opinion. However, what this team does need is a front-end starter. I do think that Darvish would have provided that for the first 2-3 years of whatever contract he signed, if he had signed with us. I don’t think Lynn, Cobb or Arrieta will provide us with that at all. I think Lynn or Cobb will be very good in our rotation for 2-3 years (not 4) but I don’t think either of them will be the front-end starter that I think we need. And Arrieta? No thank you. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with even only 2 yrs on him. I appreciate you think differently but stop the screaming otherwise.

 

I don't think there were any aces out there.  I'd love to have 3 3.6-3.8s, especially if the relievers have improved.

[ewen21]

 

That's irrelevant. The Twins were competing against offers made by other clubs this offseason, not past offers issued by the franchise. 

 

So they were supposed to outbid the entire market for THIS PLAYER for the first time ever?

 

No thanks.

 

Again, why THIS player?  Haven't seen the fan base this bent out of shape for not signing a FA.  What gives?

[TheLeviathan]

 

So they were supposed to outbid the entire market for THIS PLAYER for the first time ever?

 

No thanks.

 

Again, why THIS player?  Haven't seen the fan base this bent out of shape for not signing a FA.  What gives?

 

I've already answered.  And it wasn't the entire market.  It was this modest contract that he signed.  

 

Money is what matters.  This was completely in the realm of being beat by the Twins.

[Squirrel]

I am sorry, but I don't see where Darvish is more durable than Lynn or Cobb. Darvish is a little older than both and has a lot more pitches on that arm than the other two

http://mopupduty.com/yu-darvish-final-pitch-count-1231/

I get that. As I said, I wasn’t invested in signing Darvish just because I never thought we would. And I very well could be proven wrong ... meh, none of us really knows for certain how anything will play out ... but I do think Darvish will be the better pitcher over the next 2-3 years, better in the way we need ... a front end starter, not an ace, but a front-end guy. I just don’t think the others will be that over the same time period. With the core we have, I think having Darvish gets us far deeper into the playoffs than anyone else available in free agency this year. But who knows? I’m not disappointed about not signing Darvish but I do think our chances of going deeper are less without him. I don’t think our chances are strong with the others, either. But I will be very ecstatic to be hopefully proven wrong.

[bcs4]

 

That's irrelevant. The Twins were competing against offers made by other clubs this offseason, not past offers issued by the franchise. 

 

If Darvish wanted more $ from the Twins than the Cubs, which is likely, the Twins were right not to sign him. The trouble with an FA is you're competing against teams that won't be crippled if they sign someone that doesn't work out. The Twins came very close to putting all of their eggs in one basket. I'm happy that they didn't.

[Mike Sixel]

So they were supposed to outbid the entire market for THIS PLAYER for the first time ever?

 

No thanks.

 

Again, why THIS player? Haven't seen the fan base this bent out of shape for not signing a FA. What gives?

So far, decades have taught us, they won't ever do so. Regardless of context of the team, or their budget situation.

[Danchat]

So the Twins miss out on probably their first ever major attempt to offer a free agent a $100M+ deal and they miss out... and now we're all blaming the Twins franchise history and the Pohlads that it didn't happen. 

 

Sure, I'm disappointed that the Twins couldn't get Darvish in on a deal around $21M per year. That's cheaper than I thought. But you know what? They took a swing and they missed. That's something that (since I've been watching in 2009) neither Bill Smith nor Terry Ryan ever attempted. It was unlikely Falvey and Levine were going to win their first big free agent and convince him to play in Minnesota over playing for the Cubs, but at least they were one of the finalists! 

 

Falvey and Levine are not TR 2.0. I believe they will get their big free agent at some point, probably not in 2018 (though signing somebody like Cobb/Lynn is a possibility). The lack of signings in free agency in Twins past means absolutely nothing right now for this regime. I also think this "Pohlads are cheap" rhetoric is just a overused meme at this point. 

 

I am confident the Twins will be making some moves very soon to fill in their holes in the rotation - my initial guess would be signing Cobb to a multi-year deal and giving Jaime Garcia a one year deal. Plan A has failed, and that stinks. The likelihood of getting Darvish was small anyways. Time for plan B to kick in.

[Squirrel]

I don't think there were any aces out there. I'd love to have 3 3.6-3.8s, especially if the relievers have improved.

I don’t think Darvish is an ace, never said he was.

[luckylager]

 

Love how people give so much benefit of the doubt to a team who hasn’t won a playoff game in a decade+ and who has one playoff series win in 26 years and has never signed a top free agent during that span as well.

Maybe these "people" realize that this in not the same front office that was in place during those 26 years and the loss of a battle for the top ranked SP does not cause these "people" to immediately grab torches and pitch forks. Some "people" seem to love to go to the other extreme and pretend to have some privileged insight into what the front office is doing, or not doing and damn them for moves made or not made.   

[KirbyDome89]

 

So they were supposed to outbid the entire market for THIS PLAYER for the first time ever?

 

No thanks.

 

Again, why THIS player?  Haven't seen the fan base this bent out of shape for not signing a FA.  What gives?

Yes.

 

The Twins desperately need a front end starter. They're starting a window of contention and they aren't able to fill that hole internally within a reasonable amount of time. Darvish provides a solution that doesn't involve giving up high end prospects. The market is depressed at the moment. The Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox weren't in the running. The contract Darvish agreed to could've easily been bested by the Twins. 

 

They had seemingly everything working in their favor to sign a big FA and they whiffed. It's a disappointment. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

If Darvish wanted more $ from the Twins than the Cubs, which is likely, the Twins were right not to sign him. The trouble with an FA is you're competing against teams that won't be crippled if they sign someone that doesn't work out. The Twins came very close to putting all of their eggs in one basket. I'm happy that they didn't.

Do you believe $126 M was too high? 

 

Mauer hasn't "crippled," the Twins with his $23 M annually. I don't see how Darvish making $21 M would. 

[Mike Sixel]

They didn't spend any money last year either, and everyone knew they had a bad pitching staff. Hoping they find a way to fix the starters this year, after failing to even try last year.

[Danchat]

 

They didn't spend any money last year either, and everyone knew they had a bad pitching staff. Hoping they find a way to fix the starters this year, after failing to even try last year.

Well, when you're the worst team in MLB, you're not going to attract any of the few good free agent pitchers to play for you...

 

I am also hoping they find a way to fix the starters. I like what they've done with the bullpen and on paper it seems they've taken a massive leap from last year's joke of a bullpen on Opening Day. Now they need to do the same for the rotation.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, when you're the worst team in MLB, you're not going to attract any of the few good free agent pitchers to play for you...

 

I am also hoping they find a way to fix the starters. I like what they've done with the bullpen and on paper it seems they've taken a massive leap from last year's joke of a bullpen on Opening Day. Now they need to do the same for the rotation.

Agreed on the second part, on the first, less so. They didn't even try a flyer or anything. But yes, the bullpen looks better for sure

[TheLeviathan]

The worst part?  This is as passive a market as we're likely to ever see, the Twins had plenty of spending money, and available players that fit those needs who had interest in coming here.

 

And we passed.  There are no excuses for that.

[bcs4]

 

I don’t think Darvish is an ace, never said he was.

Yes, I know.  You were talking about a front end starter.  I was thinking you probably meant 2.9 to 3.2, and that's close to acey numbers. I was more making the point that a team of 3.6 to 4 starters would be very competitive, and I'm not seeing Darvish as anything more than that. I want Lynn and Cobb for $50ish mil a year for 4 years.  I don't think that's too far off, and I think it helps the team more than Darvish with less risk.

[Danchat]

 

The worst part?  This is as passive a market as we're likely to ever see, the Twins had plenty of spending money, and available players that fit those needs who had interest in coming here.

 

And we passed.  There are no excuses for that.

"We passed?" My guess is as good as yours but it seems to me like Darvish prefered to play for the Cubs. My current guess is that the Twins offered him 5 years $120M. 

 

 

Heyman further notes that there’s “reason to believe” that neither the Brewers or the Twins are a top choice for Darvish, though, so either team could perhaps need to be more aggressive in order to land him.

 

The Twins were possibly asked by Darvish to go past $130M and it's possible the Twins weren't comfortable giving him an opt-out clause after the 2019 season. It just sounds like he needed more money to play in a place that wasn't a top destination of his.

[TheLeviathan]

 

"We passed?" My guess is as good as yours but it seems to me like Darvish prefered to play for the Cubs. My current guess is that the Twins offered him 5 years $120M. 

 

 

The Twins were possibly asked by Darvish to go past $130M and it's possible the Twins weren't comfortable giving him an opt-out clause after the 2019 season. It just sounds like he needed more money to play in a place that wasn't a top destination of his.

 

According to a team called the Minnesota Twins the ultimate decider of FA contracts is one thing.....

 

Money.

 

So yes.  We passed on giving more money.  And we still have gaping holes in our rotation with pitchers and catchers reporting in a week or so.

[bcs4]

 

Do you believe $126 M was too high? 

 

Mauer hasn't "crippled," the Twins with his $23 M annually. I don't see how Darvish making $21 M would. 

 

How do you know that the Twins didn't offer more?  Yes, I think Mauer kinda crippled the Twins for 4 years, and he seems like a perfect example of contract slacking. The longer the contract, the bigger the slack. A recipe for disaster.

[Squirrel]

 

Yes, I know.  You were talking about a front end starter.  I was thinking you probably meant 2.9 to 3.2, and that's close to acey numbers. I was more making the point that a team of 3.6 to 4 starters would be very competitive, and I'm not seeing Darvish as anything more than that. I want Lynn and Cobb for $50ish mil a year for 4 years.  I don't think that's too far off, and I think it helps the team more than Darvish with less risk.

No doubt it will help the team. I just think over the next 2-3 years, Darvish will be the better pitcher and would have helped the team more. Heh, I probably should just stop ... for someone who really wasn't invested in him nor is disappointed he isn't coming here, just think he would have been better. And no doubt Lynn and/or Cobb would be better than what we've had. They would certainly be valuable ... having a rotation without typical 5 or AAAA types always is ... I just don't think it gets us past other teams who have better ... like the Astros ... and therefore would limit how far we get into the playoffs. But if you think one or both of those would be better ... good. I hope so, if we get one of them. It's a long season and so much could happen ... I'm just glad this part of it is coming to an end no matter what at this point!

[Mike Sixel]

How do you know that the Twins didn't offer more? Yes, I think Mauer kinda crippled the Twins for 4 years, and he seems like a perfect example of contract slacking. The longer the contract, the bigger the slack. A recipe for disaster.

The alternative being? How has not spending on great free agent players worked the last 26 years?

[DaveW]

How do you know that the Twins didn't offer more? Yes, I think Mauer kinda crippled the Twins for 4 years, and he seems like a perfect example of contract slacking. The longer the contract, the bigger the slack. A recipe for disaster.

if the twins offered more there is about a 99.9% chance that it would have been leaked.

 

Occam’s razor of course let’s us know that the Twins did not make the best offer and thus lost...again.

[luckylager]

 

According to a team called the Minnesota Twins the ultimate decider of FA contracts is one thing.....

 

Money.

 

So yes.  We passed on giving more money.  And we still have gaping holes in our rotation with pitchers and catchers reporting in a week or so.

So what was the Twins "low-ball" offer? 

 

[ScottyB]

So I guess we should have signed Chris Gimenez.

[luckylager]

 

if the twins offered more there is about a 99.9% chance that it would have been leaked.

Occam’s razor of course let’s us know that the Twins did not make the best offer and thus lost...again.

You have no idea what the Twins offered. 

[bcs4]

 

The alternative being? How has not spending on great free agent players worked the last 26 years?

Actually, not bad until Mauer's contract.

[DaveW]

You have no idea what the Twins offered.

I didn’t say I did champ.

 

I said if the Twins offered more than the Chicago Cubs (spoiler Alert: they did not)

 

It would have been leaked or reported.

[bcs4]

 

if the twins offered more there is about a 99.9% chance that it would have been leaked.

Occam’s razor of course let’s us know that the Twins did not make the best offer and thus lost...again.

 

Ahh, the first use of Occam's Razor that I've seen in the forum. Seems like you're making quite a few assumptions yourself. I don't think it's properly used. I'd say you've created a Straw Man.