Ervin Santana had Surgery Today

[darin617]

 

Sign Yu Darvish.

 

Did someone say that already? If so, I'll just say it again. Sign Yu. Give him six years. I don't care. 

Hard pass on Darvish. He clearly wants to go back to LA. Have the Twins actually got to have a meeting with Darvish yet? Or are they saying because of his history in Texas it is not needed. Which goes back to my comment he doesn't want to go anywhere but LA.

[Deduno Abides]

And in possibly related news, John Lackey’s agent was seen leaving a chocolate shop and hurrying to the jewelry store while shopping for Valentines Day.

[Heezy1323]

Some info that people may find helpful:

 

1) The MCP (metacarpophalangeal) joint is the joint at the base of the fingers.

2) I typically don't number the fingers (I use thumb, index, middle, ring and small), since it can be unclear if the thumb is considered the 'first finger' or the index finger is considered the 'first finger'. However, I am assuming that 'third finger' is the middle finger.

3) It makes sense to me that this could be a repetitive stress-type injury because the middle finger is finger that is typically in contact with the baseball the longest, and therefore sees the most stress. Over time, that could cause stress at the MCP joint that could lead to inflammation.

4) It is recommended by most throwing experts that pitchers should take off 3-4 months from pitching every year to reduce their chance of arm injury. This timeline with Santana seems about right to me. Of course it would have been nice to recognize this earlier and get it taken care of sooner, but beginning to throw earlier is also not without risk. You are simply trading one risk for another.

5) The timing is not ideal, but it also could be argued that taking care of this now may prevent a recurrence in the middle of the season, at which point all 10-12 weeks of recovery would be during the season. 

6) Trying a cortisone injection in or around the joint to reduce inflammation last season seems like a very reasonable option to me. It's unfortunate that it didn't completely relieve the problem, but it was probably worth a try.

 

Hopefully he will heal ahead of schedule and be back to his first-half 2017 self!

[Mike Sixel]

poop. can I type poop? 

 

Kyle Gibson is now their 2nd most reliable SP.....

[jorgenswest]

The Twins can survive Santana missing a month. They can’t survive a significant drop in his performance after he returns. Does anyone recall other pitchers returning from a similar surgery? Fingers must be incredibly critical to command and spin rate.

[ashbury]

According to Twins PR man Dustin Morse, Twins RHP Ervin Santana had surgery today on his right middle finger. He is expected to miss 10-12 weeks

February 6 is April Fools Day this year, right? Right? Please?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Re: the timing of the surgery:

According to multiple sources:  He had that issue in the past and the doctors decided that surgery was not required and gave him an injection (likely cortisone) and had him rest it the post-season.   He just started to pitch last week and until that he was pain-free.  Last week it was determined that surgery will be necessary.

Ah, okay, that makes more sense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Some info that people may find helpful:

 

1) The MCP (metacarpophalangeal) joint is the joint at the base of the fingers.

2) I typically don't number the fingers (I use thumb, index, middle, ring and small), since it can be unclear if the thumb is considered the 'first finger' or the index finger is considered the 'first finger'. However, I am assuming that 'third finger' is the middle finger.

3) It makes sense to me that this could be a repetitive stress-type injury because the middle finger is finger that is typically in contact with the baseball the longest, and therefore sees the most stress. Over time, that could cause stress at the MCP joint that could lead to inflammation.

4) It is recommended by most throwing experts that pitchers should take off 3-4 months from pitching every year to reduce their chance of arm injury. This timeline with Santana seems about right to me. Of course it would have been nice to recognize this earlier and get it taken care of sooner, but beginning to throw earlier is also not without risk. You are simply trading one risk for another.

5) The timing is not ideal, but it also could be argued that taking care of this now may prevent a recurrence in the middle of the season, at which point all 10-12 weeks of recovery would be during the season. 

6) Trying a cortisone injection in or around the joint to reduce inflammation last season seems like a very reasonable option to me. It's unfortunate that it didn't completely relieve the problem, but it was probably worth a try.

 

Hopefully he will heal ahead of schedule and be back to his first-half 2017 self!

I just looked it up and it appears in medical references, the thumb is included in counting fingers.

 

1 - Thumb

2 - Index

3 - Middle

4 - Ring

5 - Pinky

[MileHighTwinsFan]

Will Twins collect insurance on this?

[Nick Nelson]

This could turn out to be a hidden blessing in a sense. Santana is 35 with a lot of innings logged on his arm. He was wearing down by his playoff start last year IMO. Getting an extra two months off from competitive pitching to start the season could well pay dividends down the line. And now the Twins won't have to worry about the possibility of him throwing 200 mediocre innings and triggering his option.

 

Erv and May arriving around the same time could be a nice rotation boost, and cure for early liabilities.

 

But, yeah. The rotation is pretty unsightly right now with Gibson and Mejia lined up as the 2 and 3. I guess Hughes is penciled in? We'll see who they add. Gotta think they'll pull the trigger on someone before camp starts but who knows.

[Twins33]

Will Twins collect insurance on this?

I would think not since it may only wipe out his April. Wouldn't think insurance kicks in until significant time is missed and I doubt they count spring training.

[Heezy1323]

 

I just looked it up and it appears in medical references, the thumb is included in counting fingers.

 

1 - Thumb

2 - Index

3 - Middle

4 - Ring

5 - Pinky

Yes, that is the convention. I just don't use it in order to avoid any confusion. Less ambiguity is good, IMHO.

[jimbo92107]

As they say in France, "Ghaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"

[ashbury]

This could turn out to be a hidden blessing in a sense.

Approves:

 

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/pollyanna.jpg

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So we're a barley a week from pitchers and catchers reporting and we're already looking at a starting rotation with only 2 definite members for the first month and change of the season. Berrios, Gibson & the offense better be clicking right out of the gate...

And for Gibson, I would write "Gib." in very light pencil

 

Losing 6-10 starts is a bummer but could be worse

[diehardtwinsfan]

oye...

[Taildragger8791]

And for Gibson, I would write "Gib." in very light pencil

 

Losing 6-10 starts is a bummer but could be worse

Losing the starts is a bummer that could directly lead to an additional 5-6 losses. I’m more worried about the ripple effect on the bullpen and offense, or the other starters if they choose to shorten the rotation. Those added stresses could indirectly lead to several more losses until he’s back to full strength and effectiveness.

[Riverbrian]

 

This could turn out to be a hidden blessing in a sense. Santana is 35 with a lot of innings logged on his arm. He was wearing down by his playoff start last year IMO. Getting an extra two months off from competitive pitching to start the season could well pay dividends down the line. And now the Twins won't have to worry about the possibility of him throwing 200 mediocre innings and triggering his option.

 

Erv and May arriving around the same time could be a nice rotation boost, and cure for early liabilities.

 

But, yeah. The rotation is pretty unsightly right now with Gibson and Mejia lined up as the 2 and 3. I guess Hughes is penciled in? We'll see who they add. Gotta think they'll pull the trigger on someone before camp starts but who knows.

 

I agree completely. I have always felt that sometimes us fans tend to have tunnel vision on 1 through 5.

 

Pitchers 6 through 10 are often overlooked.

 

The way I see it... Santana and the others in the rotation were most likely going to go down at some point. This one just happens to be at start of the year. The perpetual possibility of starter injury needs to be baked in to roster construction. So you use #6 on the depth chart. #6 will and #7 will be necessary anyway. And #8 and #9. 

 

I also secretly hope... I would never state it publicly but I secretly hope that the Twins panic a little and goose up the parameters to land Darvish as a result. 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

46 Starting Pitchers made 30 starts or more starts last year. (I'm being generous because 162 games with a 5 man rotation is actually 32.4 starts a year).  

 

30 Teams 

 

Equals

 

1.5 Starters per team get through the entire season unscathed. 

 

(I know that these numbers are skewed by pitchers who were removed from the rotation without being caused by injury. However... the point is that... not many pitchers get through a full year).

 

Now... Using 32 starts a year you are down to 30 Starting Pitchers in MLB that reached the level and that averages to an obvious 1 pitcher per team. 

 

In other words... this was going to happen anyway.

 

It becomes an opportunity for Slegers or Gonsalves or someone else to show us something and they will need those chances.  

 

This is GOOD NEWS!!! See the bright side... C'mon everybody...   

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Losing the starts is a bummer that could directly lead to an additional 5-6 losses. I’m more worried about the ripple effect on the bullpen and offense, or the other starters if they choose to shorten the rotation. Those added stresses could indirectly lead to several more losses until he’s back to full strength and effectiveness.

Hopefully the Twins new pitching analytics guys are working overtime.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This could turn out to be a hidden blessing in a sense. Santana is 35 with a lot of innings logged on his arm. He was wearing down by his playoff start last year IMO. Getting an extra two months off from competitive pitching to start the season could well pay dividends down the line. And now the Twins won't have to worry about the possibility of him throwing 200 mediocre innings and triggering his option.

 

Erv and May arriving around the same time could be a nice rotation boost, and cure for early liabilities.

 

But, yeah. The rotation is pretty unsightly right now with Gibson and Mejia lined up as the 2 and 3. I guess Hughes is penciled in? We'll see who they add. Gotta think they'll pull the trigger on someone before camp starts but who knows.

It may not be the worst thing in the world but if you're going to use a sixth pitcher, it'd be nice if it happened in May or June after you got a better look at Gonsalves and Romero, giving you the possibility of going with a legitimate upside guy from the minors.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

This is GOOD NEWS!!! See the bright side... C'mon everybody...   

It's even good news from Santana's point of view, as his arm will be fresher later into the season and he will reach free agency a year soon than planned

[cy1time]

Gibson is in the two spot right now, let that sink in....

 

Things can change dramatically in the next week or so (fingers crossed,) but you're right, they're putting a ton on pressure on the offense right now.

 

That is an unpleasant sinking feeling.

[scottz]

This is no problem. It reminds me of the time I had back surgery just before my wife and I were going to go on vacation and I couldn't fly. So she found another guy to go with and they...I mean they would be on the beach...at dinner they'd laugh and...at sunrise they would...

 

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS SUCKS!

[rdehring]

 

This could turn out to be a hidden blessing in a sense. Santana is 35 with a lot of innings logged on his arm. He was wearing down by his playoff start last year IMO. Getting an extra two months off from competitive pitching to start the season could well pay dividends down the line. And now the Twins won't have to worry about the possibility of him throwing 200 mediocre innings and triggering his option.

 

Erv and May arriving around the same time could be a nice rotation boost, and cure for early liabilities.

 

But, yeah. The rotation is pretty unsightly right now with Gibson and Mejia lined up as the 2 and 3. I guess Hughes is penciled in? We'll see who they add. Gotta think they'll pull the trigger on someone before camp starts but who knows.

Was he wearing down in Yankee stadium?  Or was he dealing with this problem and not 100%?

 

The dirty shame is that we are at our weakest at the start of the season as May won't be available until later in the year.  Does anyone know whether or not Hughes has any chance of being both available and somewhat what he was this spring?

[Deduno Abides]

Even without Santana, there’s an argument that the opening day rotation could be better than last year’s, which included Hughes, Santiago and two not-ready pitchers, Gibson and Mejia. If they sign someone decent, the rotation will be probably be better, even without Santana. Further, Santana and May as mid-season reinforcements, as well as Romero, Gonsalves, etc., are much better than Bartolo Colon or anything else seen here for years.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Even without Santana, there’s an argument that the opening day rotation could be better than last year’s, which included Hughes, Santiago and two not-ready pitchers, Gibson and Mejia. If they sign someone decent, the rotation will be probably be better, even without Santana. Further, Santana and May as mid-season reinforcements, as well as Romero, Gonsalves, etc., are much better than Bartolo Colon or anything else seen here for years.

I was as down as anybody on bringing back Santiago but he did have a very good April. We know Erv was lights out during that stretch too. I just don't see how the current staff can realistically replicate those performances, let alone top them. 

[tvagle]

 

I also secretly hope... I would never state it publicly but I secretly hope that the Twins panic a little and goose up the parameters to land Darvish as a result. 

 

I see what you did or didn't do here...I also would never disclose that this may push the Twins to Do Anything Realistic Via Incremental Salary Hikes to augment the Starting Rotation

[Deduno Abides]

I was as down as anybody on bringing back Santiago but he did have a very good April. We know Erv was lights out during that stretch too. I just don't see how the current staff can realistically replicate those performances, let alone top them.

 

For one thing, Berrios, who’s probably the best starter on the team, should contribute more this April than the nothing he was allowed to give last year. Gibson and Mejia should be better than Gibson and Mejia. Santiago was super lucky last April, albeit with good results until karma reversed in May, as was Hughes, who nonetheless still produced bad results. With the exception of 2017 Berrios, the aggregate of pitchers 6-10 in 2018 should be better than 2017. Also, the bullpen should be improved, which, although not fixing the gap from Santana’s loss, does mitigate it.

[Rosterman]

Well, there goes the automatic 200-innings thing for 2019 out-the-window. An extended spring training for Ervin. See them signing at least Garcia, ir not another end-of-the-rotation guy who will be hungry enough to prove they can pitch better than Gibson or Mejia when the time happens. Of course, who knows -- Hughes or May?